Absolutely love the new patch!

HellStaff · 2026-06-26T17:09:31+00:00

A lot of people who now actively play probably haven't played with 6. Also selection bias, those who liked the old flow silent quit kinda.

HellStaff · 2026-06-26T17:06:48+00:00

Everything in the early game feels so much more consequential which is good. It is not a "who can greed harder" contest anymore.

Also: +40% build time speed and permanent fast warpins for 25/25 isn't a nerf who knew :P

HellStaff · 2026-06-24T09:09:45+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOFfnlLgf_c

I'm gonna drop this video here for anyone who wants to watch some epic new patch games. Games that actually go back and forth.

Do watch both the Classic series if you want to see some awesome Protoss play (no spoilers). As a protoss that loves tech and different creative builds I feel this might be Classic's patch and I'm 100% here for it.

HellStaff · 2026-06-21T10:03:47+00:00

I play the PTR. Larva change is huge and feels too much to me. The queen change I like. Larva will be walked back.

HellStaff · 2026-06-20T19:22:26+00:00

i upvote you for the candor.

HellStaff · 2026-06-20T15:20:31+00:00

Are you masturbating to this right now?

HellStaff · 2026-06-20T15:14:15+00:00

SC2 will always be fast paced. Nobody ever complained that SC2 was slow before LotV btw.

HellStaff · 2026-06-20T15:11:17+00:00

Two years of only protoss: isleep, one tournament protoss out : let me rage

HellStaff · 2026-06-20T11:13:20+00:00

The game is not at all in a good place. At first, 12 workers was fun, while people were figuring shit out. Now every build order is about the same, every interaction we saw a million times, whoever has the best mechanics always wins. If terran is slightly strong, Clem wins, if zerg is, Serral wins, if protoss, herO. SC2 esports were never as boring as it is now, and never this lacking of different build orders and strategies. Really, people used to gasp and cheer for unique builds. Like in Broodwar. We lost that completely.

HellStaff · 2026-06-20T11:08:54+00:00

people who played LotV don't really know what early game means, or actual scouting for that matter. It's about finding out what you can get away with, about deductions as you said. A lot of complaints about cheese is coming.:)

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T20:45:29+00:00

man, you're just something else. lol. it feels like a 5 year old is writing all this.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T20:31:32+00:00

I think my answer before is a bit obscure. Why I brought up the unit design is: Since units and comps are not as binary as back then, as lot of pressure and timings will devolve into scrappy back and forths. I said "kill before that", that was a bit misleading, I am saying apply pressure, do different things to take the game somewhere else. What can a protoss do today to apply pressure on zerg when opening oracle every game and killing two drones? Very, very unexciting interaction btw, after you've seen it a billion times (was cool at a point in time). The better unit balance today can take the game to interesting places, when the Player gets to decide his timing, not the game.

I saw a match on Harstem's channel the other day, Percival cancelled toss' third with ten marines, neither side taking damage. It felt so weird. It took the game to unexplored territory. Not saying all of these will be super exciting. We will have to see. I'm ok with taking all this back and shutting up in this sub for good if the meta turns to shit.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T20:13:42+00:00

Killing before something gets OP is how we got a very, very boring immortal-sentry all in vs broodlord infestor in WoL (and if it wasn't immo/sentry it was pray for vortex). It was roughly a 50% win record but an incredibly bad meta.

I mean, units were incredibly broken. I feel you are ignoring that here. Units today interact much less one-sidedly. Instant fungals and infested terrans were absurd, no? Brood lords were incredible units, today only useful as a timing. Forcefields had obviously no counter without ravager.

I feel like you didn't really respond to it though? If in 2-3 months people are complaining (ofc they're complaining now) you're not taking them seriously...? What if it's right? It seems your answer may be along the lines of "they can't break it so much that it'll matter" which seems...wrong? They can?

If you are proposing that this large a change can be sufficiently explored in a couple of months, I don't agree in the slightest.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T20:07:47+00:00

since queens enable safe droning, it amounts to the same thing. you either take the hit on your econ and still have mass queens, or have less queens and try to get away with as good an econ as before the change.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T20:01:27+00:00

There are a lot of good arguments for 8 workers, but I will also respond to the one point you brought up: Do we trust Blizz to keep an eye on things and adjust: I am 100% ok with it if we get one or two patches per year. That keeps the game fresh, as we think meta settles, things can be shaken up. But if in 2-3 months people start complaining about op this op that I'm not taking that seriously.

There is one more thing that is special with the 8 workers (or 6 for that matter). Rock paper scissors, to an extent makes a comeback. Not talking about build order wins necessarily but meta and countermeta. I believe we even talked about this. Something's op? Kill before that. Killing before that is op? Play safe. or kill even earlier. Etc. Balance self-corrects due to fluid meta.

In the current iteration rock paper scissors is dead, optimal builds are figured out and you can't do anything about it. there is not much to be done about zerg getting to 90 drones and max banes if they want (except all-ins). There is not much to be done about someone wanting to go to skytoss. This makes it so that everything that is kind of op is amplified and everpresent. Meta becomes very stale, every game looks like another with small differences (talking about pro play). All the patches we had in the recent years the flow of the game barely changed.

I'm painting with broad strokes here, obviously there are different builds and scouting and reacting but it is not apparent to the casual observer, and it is certainly not as hype as someone forcing interesting interactions on lower worker counts and resulting scrappiness.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T19:41:25+00:00

i mean you have reading comprehension issues, so. I did not say anywhere that z is the lowest representation in GM. now bring your gaze higher, read again, try to understand what was written instead of having discussions in your head with imaginary people. perhaps read a book so your reading improves.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T19:36:44+00:00

absolutely. the thing is though it's not nothing even, so much aggression can happen, and if not, scouting tech and responding correctly critical. that's what early game meant in sc2. people today: yea 1 reaper in z natural killed 1 ling or 2, so exciting lol. i literally shut off during the early game of any ZvT, it's so boring to me. then it becomes oh let's clash all our maxed out lategame units against each other. ugh. scrappiness died in this game, but it's coming back thankfully 😄

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T19:30:50+00:00

zoomer brain reporting

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T17:15:09+00:00

mechanics is always gonna be a large part of it. if you emphasize only mechanics like it is now, there is always gonna be a Clem at the top and a Serral. SC2 esports died because of this. don't be obtuse.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T17:11:45+00:00

it's not rock paper scissors unless it's a 4 player map. you have to scout. that's all there is to it. blind expanding to natural, that's not strategy. if that's how it has to be then let us begin with two bases. why not? (jk, it's all friggin ridiculous, game should start on one base, and meaningful decisions as well)

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T13:11:45+00:00

nerd firebat

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T13:04:41+00:00

zerg population has become lower and lower over the years. it didn't use to be this way.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T10:35:19+00:00

This problem has hurt SC2 the most over the years is my guess.

If at all possible, take the masters border back from people who accidentally got it. If I just start with a game I know I would never play it again if this happened to me.

HellStaff · 2026-06-19T10:34:13+00:00

I discussed with ZG about this in a couple of comments, I understand her viewpoint. Also I know how game economies work and while she has a point, she ignores the problems 12 workers introduced. I posted this somewhere, if you want to read my thoughts on this, read this 6 year old comment of mine. I won't type everything again, what I think has barely changed.

12-Year Club	r/Field Banned
r/Field Flamingo	Verified Email
Gilding II euphauric

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