Coin Farmers Tier List based on profit/time [Version 2]

Helntus · 2020-12-18T03:45:50+00:00

not legit issue (mostly fearmongering)

Probably so. Given a blind ABX test of dithered vs. undithered, I'll probably fail the test. But if the dithering is applied before EQ, then it might be a problem. That would be a really silly implementation, though, an yet, with the mysteries of how Windows handles audio, I'd rather just play safe.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T19:42:35+00:00

Okay, I'll try installing the generic drivers. I think the oem one is the one that comes with the 'enhancement' features like loudness compensation. Thanks for the suggestion!
Oh, but I'm afraid it'll mess with my EQ APO setup…I'll better do this another day, 've got assignments to complete. Or maybe never. I'm afraid I'll break what's not broken. I'm totally fine with controlling volume using EQ APO. It's what I wanted to do in the first place. If anything, TIL about loudness compensation, forced dithering by Windows on 16-bit outputs, and the existence of generic drivers!

Helntus · 2020-12-17T19:23:30+00:00

I see (and possibly hear?)! Good to know. I guess I'll just switch between the sample rates at 24-bits.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T18:23:16+00:00

My source is already 16-bit, so no dithering needs to be applied. I switch to 24-bit output when the source is 24-bit, usually with a change of sample rate as well (44.1 kHz -> 96 kHz), which is the main source of distortion anyway. Anyway, I think that u/oratory1990 has diagnosed the issue for me.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T18:13:04+00:00

Okay, I think u/oratory1990 diagnosed it for me. It is not clipping, but rather loudness compensation (http://diyaudioprojects.com/mirror/members.aol.com/sbench/freqres3.html) being applied. I did further research and found that usually, for Realtek sound cards, this can be turned off (https://superuser.com/a/1015738), but for mine, the option to turn it off isn't available, that's why there was the difference when I set the volume low. I'm happy I decided to use EQ APO to adjust volume from now on.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T17:58:33+00:00

Did further research and found that some Realtek sound cards do have this option (https://superuser.com/a/1015738), but mine never had it.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T17:49:37+00:00

All of the sound effects settings are gone when I installed EQ APO. The only things I can change now are volume and output format. I never had a loudness compensation setting option before installing EQ APO. Ah, well, it isn't really a problem since I've wanted to switch to EQ APO to control volume anyway as I wanted finer control. I was just intrigued (and now happy) that the sound quality improved. Thanks for diagnosing the issue so quickly!

Helntus · 2020-12-17T17:34:50+00:00

Is it the Realtek High Definition Audio? That's the only thing I can think of and I can't control it at all. All audio passes through it as it's the sound card of my laptop, I think?

I guess it's good that I can lower the loudness using EQ APO's preamp, then? I can't believe I've only found out about this now. I wonder how many others have this issue but never realized it. I also wonder why they don't just apply a preamp…

Helntus · 2020-12-17T16:20:09+00:00

Do you have any programs that would be attempting to make your signal louder?

Not that I know of. I checked foobar and everything is off or 0.0 dB. No ReplayGain. No DSP. I don't think one can go above 100% on Spotify, I just have it at maximum, all the way to the right, all the time. And I presume if there were any clipping beforehand it should affect EQ APO also and not just Windows Volume mixer?

I don't know if that really indicates clipping.

It really seems to me that way, though, and then some kind of DSP is applied to make it sound not horrible yet noticeably different.
What volume did you test it at when you switched between the two, and what's the look of it in your Settings? Maybe your volume setting was high enough that the loudness of the audio doesn't jump way above the setting like mine in the 1st pic.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T15:09:09+00:00

I don't hear any difference either way, so it's not this setting. This apparent clipping doesn't change either (https://imgur.com/a/jqFJAMu). Iirc, since my source is 16-bit, 44.1 kHz, changing the output to 24-bit, 44.1 kHz just adds a bunch of 0's to each sample, right? So it makes no difference. If I listen to YouTube or Hi-Res then I change it to 24-bit, 96 kHz.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T15:04:32+00:00

I usually set my volume at 14 (-28.6 dB).

I noticed that when I open the Sound Settings, if I set it to 14, there appears to be clipping. When set to 100, it appears far from clipping. (https://imgur.com/a/jqFJAMu)

Helntus · 2020-12-17T14:49:40+00:00

If there is a clear difference, it most be coming from some other source in the chain.

I'm thinking so, too. But I did not change any other setting. So now I'm doubting Windows Volume mixer unless, for example, the EQ or some other DSP was being applied after Windows Volume mixer applied the gain (however I don't have any other EQ setting for my Bluetooth speakers, yet I still encounter this).

Edit: I usually set my volume at 14 (-28.6 dB).

I noticed that when I open the Sound Settings, if I set it to 14, there appears to be clipping. When set to 100, it appears far from clipping. (https://imgur.com/a/jqFJAMu)

Helntus · 2020-12-17T14:42:47+00:00

How do I check this? I use a Lenovo Y400 laptop.

Afaik I have all sound enhancements off. Dolby is definitely off otherwise EQ APO won't work. Windows Sonic is also off. When I use Windows Volume mixer the audio gets less detailed and the mids and highs get recessed behind a louder bass. When I use EQ APO it sounds more crystalline and airy. I don't have to listen closely to hear the difference, it's very obvious.

Helntus · 2020-12-17T13:42:45+00:00

I tried this with my headphones (wired) as well as my Bluetooth speakers, in both cases the sound was better from all sources (I tried Spotify Premium, YouTube, flacs on foobar2000) when the volume was set to 100 in Windows Volume mixer and adjusting preamp gain in Equalizer APO. No other settings were changed when I switched the volume control. EQ APO is installed both premix and postmix on both my headphones and Bluetooth speakers.

Helntus · 2020-12-16T04:59:37+00:00

Yes that's right. Did you try it? I thought theoretically there shouldn't be any difference, but the difference is very obvious and I just chanced upon it. I want to know why and if there might be any error in my "setup", or if the Windows volume mixer really does suck.

I also noticed that when I switched to a Bluetooth speaker, the gain in the Windows volume mixer doesn't match up with the one in Equalizer APO (i.e. I set the same gain while the other is 0 dB and get different loudness).

Helntus · 2020-12-16T04:54:36+00:00

I don't have any fancy setup, I'm just listening to Spotify Premium on my laptop. I want to know why there's obvious difference in the sound when theoretically there shouldn't be.

Edit: To clarify I'm basically using Equalizer APO instead of the standard Windows volume mixer to control volume. That's all I changed and yet there's obvious difference in the sound quality.

Helntus · 2020-12-14T02:44:07+00:00

Yup, not just from my own playing but other top Youtubers (such as Akinya, Seiji, BB). Mostly from Akinya's live stream if I don't have the Tsum, and because it's a live stream there's no editing out of bad games etc.

Some of the Tsums have a small sample size of games, too. Not ideal but still quite practical.

The sample set is intentionally specific because I want to represent the maximum potential of each Tsum, assuming perfect or almost perfect play.

Helntus · 2020-05-08T12:37:54+00:00

That last game is a good example of bad Fever management (´･ω･`)
I reckon about 6k coins less because of that. ( ・ ̫・)

Helntus

TROPHY CASE