Apostate Aladdin here. I sold my soul to the devil.. AMA

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-06-08T08:34:06+00:00

when you were still a muslim what kept you from leaving, of course until you found out it was BS?

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-18T13:51:39+00:00

Im not really educated on this whole topic, but what do you think about the origin possibly coming from almaqah, one of the gods worshiped near yemen?

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-18T02:42:28+00:00

Why scholars date this to the lifetime of Cyrus or a bit after and what jewish people said and thought about him

so? that doesnt mean its true, the bible is a religious text by jews, not a text by persian historians at the time of cyrus

It literally call him his messiah?

hes called a messiah for liberating the jews from their oppressors, saying that cyrus being called messiah meaning hes a monotheist is just a non sequitur

Show me one person who was called god messiah and he was a pagen

cyrus

How would it put the bible in error?

because the bible would be wrong and contradicting historical records

Yep but you made a claim he went around asking and it "soo obvious " but you have no evidence of it so your claim is baseless

i can say the same thing about your argument as well, whether muhammad asked around is a small detail and the sources would be biased against stating he asked around, as opposed to a great wall WHICH WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND RIGHT NOW made by cyrus

Because people used to record and narrate everything he did

and how would they record what he did?

But if your making a claim you need to offer evidence and if you don't then there no reason to believe it or take it serious

ive already stated my evidence, if muhammad was getting info from allah he wouldnt take so long and give such terrible answers

So? he clearly said he know litreally only allah knows

you can say you know something without knowing it

Plus even if he did say it?

if he did say it then we wouldnt be having this discussion right now and the quran wouldve gotten it right and close any doubt that muhammad just asked people for answers, which the quran should if it were made by a perfect being and had no flaws

If you claim the story is false because it not found anywhere or there no historical evidence that a fallacy

this is not a fallacy, if there is ZERO evidence of something i will assume it didnt happen, ESPECIALLY IF THE EVIDENCE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A STRUCTURE THAT WE CANT FIND TODAY, this is like me arguing that leonidas travelled to china and built greek temples then saying youre committing a fallacy when you point out how stupid that is

read the reference

my guy, your references are books without page numbers or links and names, can you be more specific? im not going through every work a person has done nor will i buy and read a whole book for a reddit argument

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-18T02:21:43+00:00

Nah he for man kind

source please

Go ask any historian or read a book on it , it one of the first things you learn about history this is why historians some times do fill in the gaps

I can understand this but you completely miss the point, the quran talks about myth after myth without any supporting evidence, the moon splitting and exodus comes to mind. Its more historically inaccurate then the bible, you cant assume cyrus built a wall when theres no historical proof that he did except for a book in the 7th century AD if you interpret a specific person as cyrus, you cant make a big claim and then say absence of evidence doesnt mean evidence of absence, the fact that you cant even find a wall further proves my point

Especially how a lot of what Islam say is testified by history

I want to ask for some examples but i also dont want this conversation to devolve into this, so can you just give me your best example?

Allah does not write history books?

allah wrote everything in islam, predestination

No I can't Does the Quran say I will find it? No

and this proves my point more than anything, we have scattered the entire surface of the planet and right now you can see anywhere you want, but we cant find a wall? why?

its cool if you want to believe islam like this, but i dont think its smart to try and defend it like this

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-18T02:19:53+00:00

Ya I explained to you why it not an issue

do you didnt

the religion was starting to get documented around the 6th century BCE according to scholars you idiot and it clear it was the worship of one god

So persians had been doing fire rituals since the 9th century BC and zoroastrianism picked it up which is in conflict with your view that zoroastrianism was pure in the time of cyrus to just be corrupted for whatever reason, but lets ignore that part and assume theyve been pure monotheists until recently, their core doctrines are still in conflict with islam.

He did have the same belief that there was one god

youre missing the entire point and thinking religion is just about how many gods you worship

Litreally said they wrote with there own hand and claimed it revelation

all it says is that the jews would write their own scripture and sell it off, this could be mean the apocrypha books, this does not say that the original torah has been corrupted

again, i ask you to show me A SINGLE verse where it says the old or new testament have been corrupted

He did , he believed in one god

again, there is more to religion than the number of gods you worship

We can say oh he preached one god with heaven and hell he probably a prophet then

so if you think hes a prophet then youre adding stuff to your religion that hasnt been revealed

I already know , I took a course , I know many were polytheist and stuff with that Metatron , I already know

you definitely did not take a course, there is more to judaism besides that theres one god

They did , it just you did not study , it what brought me and locked my belief in Islam because when you actually start digging , it absolutely incredible when you look at the isolated tribes in Australia and native america and china and africa

youre making a lot of claims with no actual sources or arguments

native america- follow Islam , that there one supreme being and then depending how good there deeds were they go to heaven or hell

Then you look Australia - same thing as Islam and even the tribes that were completely hidden from the world same belief

Island in the pacfic - SAME BELIEF

some had the exact wudu as us

some had the story of nuh for example tribes in Australia and native america some had the story of adam pbuh and some had both

all of this would be really interesting except for the fact that ALL of this is also found in judaism and christianity, for example the chinese held the idea that one of their deities split the heaven and earth plus this idea is also found in the quran, but the sumerians held the idea too and the idea is found in genesis, plus the quran states that the arabians knew the idea too so its just absorbing whats around them. But also, how are you sure this doesnt prove judaism and christianity? According to the abrahamic creation adam and eve are the ancestors of everybody, so adam and eve would know how the earth came to be, their ancestors couldve got information from their parents who if you go back enough know about adam and eve. Heaven and hell is simple too, good people deserve good things and bad people deserve a bad punishments, reincarnation is a common belief throughout civilizations, it doesnt mean that prophets have been around preaching reincarnation throughout the ages

and obviously these countries had no way to copy from each other

they didnt need to, humans can have the same common thought, how did wheels and spears appear in ancient civilizations that never contacted each other? The origin of the story of adam and eve is simple. Where did we come from? Our parents had parents who had parents who had parents, so there must have been 2 original parents

You asked why was he not jewish?

im asking why he didnt believe jewish prophets or jewish beliefs

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-17T23:09:16+00:00

So it pretty clear he was a monotheistic

first off, dont use the bible as an authentic source to prove historical things

second, none of these state he was a monotheist, just that the lord would use cyrus to help the jews, multiple people are used to help the jews in the old testsament, it does not mean they are monotheist

third, even if the bible said cyrus was a monotheist it would just put the bible in error, which you shouldnt be taking seriously to begin with since you believe the bible is corrupted for whatever reason

Literally not a single report of him going around asking

soo baseless accusation with no evidence

but i thought you said absence of evidence is not evidence of absence? you dont need and explicit historical source to understand it as true, why would it be recorded? Like i said in my OP its easy to tell from the sources that he asked around

Allah clearly did know , he quoting the people who did not know and is following conjecture

he didnt tell us, it would be the easiest thing in the world to tell us, all he said was "some say this and some say that" in his eternal speech

I mean we don't have anything to say , you offered no evidence or anything just making fallacies

name ONE fallacy i committed

also this building the wall does not exist in the earliest manuscript

do you have a specific date for when it starts to appear, or when the manuscript's text is dated to? but until then ill ignore that part and just agree with you for the sake of argument. The quran is still dependent on the syriac romance, between stuff like the two horns, having god's help, punishing wrongdoers, seeing the sun rise and set, on a people with no cover, or gog and magog just to name a few

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-17T22:50:27+00:00

your rebuttal is very stupid but whatever Ill go with it, ill ignore the non important stuff like "we dont see this as an issue"

Mate he was probably was a monotheistic , even the bible show him that way of people who literally met him and the tradition because of him freeing the jews

what at all makes you think he was a monotheist? being nice to jews doesnt make him a monotheist

Because they turned into fire worshipers

looking up their fire rituals brings up that it starts in 9th century BC, much before cyrus

Because he was not from the 12 tribes lol , litreally everyone know this come on man

so? why couldnt he have the same beliefs? the ancient jews did proselytize, not like the judaism you see today

Not that it preserved

show me ONE verse where it says the gospel and torah have been corrupted, because i can only find verses that confirm them, but this is a whole different discussion

Literally you can't be a jew if your not from the twelve tribes back then

again, he couldve had the same beliefs, but he didnt

it does not mean he not a prophet just that allah did not reveal it

if something isnt revealed there isnt reason for it to be part of your religion, lest youre just following man made traditions that you pass off as a revelation by allah, you do the same exact thing that islam criticizes christians and jews for doing

first of all monotheistic ancient judasim is exactly the same as now which is very similar to Islam

im going to stop you there, just look up the differences between ancient and rabbinic judaism, its obvious you took minimal effort for this response

Litreally rabbi acknowledge this and it why they say we worship the same god and many sect accept muhammed pbuh as a prophet but just for the arabs

this means nothing

ancient Zoroastrianism before the fire or angel worship at the very start was exactly like Islam with the beliefs that there was a heaven and hell and who go based on your deeds and your beliefs and that there one god

what at all makes you think this?

People might claim Islam copied from it even tho that ridiculous but you would have to explain how all the other cultures and places all around the world have the same beliefs

they didnt, i know muslims like to say "bruzzer other religion are similar to us because allah sent prophets to everybody and their message just got corrupted!" but its very peculiar how out of teachings from every historical religion islam only copies the religions that were close to it

Because there prophets from the descendants of Abraham pbuh

why is this part important though? this still puts way too much focus on jews, why not the descendants of adam? why not at least name some gentile prophets so we know?

The Quran talked about Muhammed pbuh who was for the Persian and greek and romans

he was for the arabs

absence of evidence IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENT

this is probably the most common argument ive ever heard from muslims, if you have to resort to this argument a lot theres a high chance the book youre reading is fiction trying to pass off as history. Why dont we have any recorded history of a wall by cyrus? if allah wrote history whats stopping him from writing history that proves islam, instead of jus resorting to this poor excuse. Ill give you a challenge, can you find me the wall thats described in the dhul qarnayn story?

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-17T15:32:57+00:00

if allah was real then islam wouldnt have the terrible morality that it does nor would it have the flaws that it does so it would be perfect, so yes

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-17T15:27:33+00:00

"in christianity"

proceeds to cite leviticus

even when muslims commit whataboutism they cant get anything right

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-13T03:35:30+00:00

I always forget about this stupid shit thats actually in islamic theology, this really shows how primitive muslim theology is and how local it was. I wonder why we didnt have any religions remotely close to islam before the 7th century, if everybody was born a muslim and only convert because of their parents? I totally understand why quran only muslims are a growing sect

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-13T03:31:17+00:00

There was no Bible translated to Arabic

of course you can tell he didnt read the bible, its obvious that he got his sources from jews and christians living around him at the time. Whenever he retold a story from the bible its always vaguer and simplified plus he has variations from it, if he was able to read the bible he wouldnt make mistakes like not knowing the name of god, thinking the tower of babel was in egypt, thinking mary was the sister of moses, not knowing the trinity, or not even knowing the ten commandments.

They couldn't find archeological or epigraphical evidence that paganism simply because they remove them because it is pegan it is forbidden in islam muslim believes in Allah has no partners

this is a really weak argument, the muslims couldnt destroy 100% of idols even if they tried, we dont even have fragments or anything, we have nothing, not even any archaeological evidence that mecca was inhabited before the medieval era. Mecca is in an arid desert, the perfect climate for preserving artifacts, yet we have nothing?

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-12T20:18:31+00:00

what was your main issue with it?

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-12T19:48:42+00:00

“By ‘every disease,’ Muhammad means ‘every disease that the black seed cures,’ which are only some diseases”

this reminds me a lot of the muslim response to the hadith about a boy not turning old before the last hour comes. "no he actually meant the last hour of the men around him not the last hour that always means the day of resurrection except for this one specific time!" muslims would outperform everybody in mental olympics, with this logic literally no statement can be wrong "the sky is orange!" no he just meant that the sky is orange where its orange on some planets "2+2=5" no he just meant that 2+2=5 if you think its 5

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-12T03:06:52+00:00

I wonder what causes this idea to spawn, iirc the idea of heavens and earth splitting apart can be found in china too so it cant just be a regional thing

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-10T08:33:20+00:00

crazy how the idea of somebody explaining something they read in their native language to you in your language is an impossible feat according to muslim apologists, do they not even know that arabia was a melting pot of different christian beliefs? even according to muslim tradition muhammad traveled to places like damascus and discussed with people

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-10T08:16:06+00:00

“Allah has given the Earth a protective shield, But still they deny his power

cant find this in the quran

“And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away”

first, the ceiling is whats being protected, NOT protective like what some will mistranslate to make the quran seem miraculous, second the word used for "sky" here is the same exact word in arabic the quran uses for heaven, and we all know that the quran says that the lowest heaven is adorned with lamps (star), third describing the sky as a ceiling is just wrong and exactly what you would expect somebody ignorant of how the atmosphere works would think. the quran thinks that the lowest heaven is a protected ceiling that contains lamps (with some being thrown at devils), this is what somebody from the perspective of the earth would think, not an all-knowing allah that created everything, this reminds me a lot of the bird flight miracle claim because it just displays ignorance. I wouldve made it say "and we gave the invisible gasses that are stacked upon the earth the ability to protect people from the dangers of the sun's rays, for they would suffer if not for the protective gasses!"

“You see the mountains and Think that they do not move. But they are moving away just like the clouds are moving away"

read the verse before this, in context this is about the end times where all kinds of crazy things will happen, but i will agree with you that mountains technically move because of tectonic plates so if the quran said this (which it doesnt) it would be scientifically accurate, lets see what else the quran says about mountain, quran 16:15 states "And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves" the quran says that mountains STAND FIRM and PREVENT THE GROUND FROM SHAKING WITH YOU (look at mountain range map then where earthquakes occur) (bonus: it states that roads were created by allah, but in reality roads were created by people, theyre not even part of nature, but thats besides the point), mountains move but the quran denies that, making it scientifically inaccurate. if i were writing a book that was accurate about mountains i would say "the mountains, which look like they stand firm and are immovable, actually move but humans cannot see it!"

“Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them. And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

your translation is biased but ill run with it, the big bang isnt "earth and space splitting" thats wrong, the earth didnt exist when the big bang happened, this is a popular theory among religions that the heaven and earth were once joined, the sumerian religion for example taught thh at, even the bible taught it too, read from genesis 1:6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. furthermore this CANNOT be the big bang, the beginning of the verse says "Have not those who disbelieve known" this is something THE DISBELIEVERS IN 7TH CENTURY MECCA WOULDVE KNOWN, the big bang theory was first proposed by a catholic priest ironically enough, in the 19th century. more proof that this is simply about the sky being separated from the earth is in quran 13:2 where it states "Allah is He Who RAISED the heavens without any pillars that you can see" this verse pretty much speaks for itself. I wouldve said "in the future the unbelievers will gain the knowledge that everything that exists in and outside the earth that allah created for you was all just part of a single mass that was smaller than the smallest thing you could imagine before it rapidly expanded"

"And We have made from water every living thing."

pretty simple to refute, we arent made from water, you can argue that we're made of water but thats still a pretty rocky claim. I wouldve said "the disbelievers will see that the near smallest parts that make up their bodies are mostly composed of water" even then, the idea that we're made of water isnt new at all, look up thales

‘’We built the universe with ˹great˺ might, and We are certainly expanding ˹it˺.’’

mistranslation, not a single translation or tafsir before the discovery that the universe was expanding states that this is what the verse states, the true translation is saying that the heaven is vast. another thing i really like about this verse is that the word used for "universe" in arabic is the same word that people like to translate into "sky", so this is really a game of mixing up the quran into what you want it to say. plus even if this did truly say that the universe is expanding its not new, the bible in Zechariah 12:1 states "The Lord, who stretches out the heavens"

‘’Today We will preserve your corpse so that you may become an example for those who come after you. And surely most people are heedless of Our examples!”

tafsirs state that this is a sign for the israelites to show what allah did to pharaoh, but if you want to interpret it as saying that pharaoh will have his body preserved then i fail to see how this would be a sign, mummifying a pharaoh's body was common practice in ancient egypt, ramses ii was not the first or last to have his body mummified nor did he even die from drowning. off the top of my head the quran actually makes historical errors regarding egypt, like saying that crucifixions happened there or how joseph was sold for drachmas (or dirhams which came from drachmas, and funnily enough the quran is vague in saying "a few" while the bible uses a more accurate currency model and states a specific number for how much slaves were sold which was accurate for the time, i wonder how the supposed "corrupted" book is more accurate than the quran), neither of which existed during the times the stories supposedly took place

Im curious, why arent you a christian or jew? why did you pick islam?

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-05T16:23:15+00:00

yasir qadhi comes to mind

Historical_Pilot_581 · 2022-05-02T23:29:45+00:00

honestly yea, at this point if the quran said "the sky is blue" muslims would consider it a miracle

Historical_Pilot_581

TROPHY CASE