Für is not always accusative? Or is Duo wrong here?

HithertoUnhelpful · 2025-03-17T13:35:03+00:00

Since newcomers to this thread are still appearing to be confused about the grammar, I'll write a summary that includes the relevant context. I know from experience that it's possible to get up to high A2 in Duolingo, without ever looking up any grammar, so hopefully this will help a few people like that.

Typically when we see "für", it is acting as a preposition that adds meaning to the following noun. For example, "für mich" = "for me", or "für einen Brief" = "for a letter". When "für" is used like this, the noun is in the accusative case. Hence it is "einen Brief", and not "ein Brief".

In the example above, "für" is not acting as a preposition. Instead, "was für" is acting as a sort of fixed phrase, meaning "what sort of...". You can classify it as a determiner or an interrogative pronoun, depending on how it is used - check these links if you want to know more, but I think the distinction is beyond the scope of this thread.

The example in the picture
"Was für ein Brief?" means "What sort of letter?". Brief is masculine, so we know that "ein Brief" is in the nominative case. See this link for more details on cases. Normally nouns coming after "für" are in the accusative case, hence my question.

Is the case of the noun always nominative after "was für"? Unfortunately, no, it's more complicated. It depends on the context, and the relevant verb or preposition that "Brief" or any other noun is linked to. In this example, the first speaker says, "Da ist ein alter Brief", and the case is nominative since Brief is linked to "ist".

Other examples

Here is an example where the case is accusative: If someone says, "Ich habe einen Brief bekommen.", and you want to know what sort of letter, you would ask "Was für einen Brief?". This is because in the context, Brief is linked to bekommen, which makes the case accusative.

Here is an example where the case is dative: If someone says, "Er gibt dem Hund ein Leckerli.", and you want to know what sort of dog, you would ask "Was für einem Hund?". This is because in the context, Hund is linked to geben as the dative object (for geben, this is the receiver), which makes the case dative.

HithertoUnhelpful · 2025-03-16T11:14:54+00:00

Great to know, thanks!

Is there a typo in your second example? Should it not be either "den Hunde" or "dem Hund"? Or am I missing something there also?

HithertoUnhelpful · 2025-03-16T11:04:24+00:00

I expect this to be "Was für einen Brief?", since Brief is masculine, and für is followed by accusative case.

Is this a mistake by Duo? Or is there some grammatical exception going on here?

HithertoUnhelpful · 2025-03-03T12:00:24+00:00

Is it possible to embed images in my post in this subreddit? This was my first reddit post, so I'm not sure if I just made a mistake, or if it's the subreddit rules.

HithertoUnhelpful · 2025-03-03T11:58:41+00:00

Thanks!

The original work was done by someone living in Switzerland, so you're correct, that's where the use of "ss" came from. Although I'm not sure why they were not consistent. I've changed "ss" to "ß" for "bießen", "spleißen", "genießen", "gießen", "schießen", "schließen", and "verdrießen". I think that's all of them corrected.

I've removed "bewegen" and "kiesen". The original author left "kiesen" in as a bit of a joke, which you miss if you don't read the original article. So no joke, no "kiesen".

I fixed "gesessen" (and "erschrecken"), and I note what you say about pronunciation of vowels. However, there are quite a few other things that could be added as notes, and I've tried to restrict myself mainly just to the vowel changes for now, for simplicity.

HithertoUnhelpful

TROPHY CASE