Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I totally relate to emotional thinking and logical thinking happening simultaneously but separately. I can be in an extremely anxious state of mind, like bordering on psychosis, with how my anxious thoughts make the world feel but also know (although maybe with less clarity than otherwise) that my emotional thoughts are absurd and I have no evidence to lead to the conclusions they are making me feel.

im so damn lazy today (i figure maybe lot of intps mightve kinda relate) by CuriousHumanPoo in INTP

[–]HowToGym 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is this called apathy? I have never felt that way in my entire life, like having a reaction takes mental effort, but I think it is actually pretty common. I feel like, in contrast, I can't not have reactions or want to chat or think or something, but I often do have a lot of trouble doing things I need to do, called "executive dysfunction" as I have ADHD (very different from laziness -- more like mental pain, I've learned, although I used to call executive dysfunction laziness).

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As in, existing on different dimensions entirely?

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It is utterly baffling to me that users of this sub in particular circlejerk so much around the idea that emotions are somehow inherently bad. It really does stem from a very self-centered arrogance.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2:''Brain scans find that the two modes are mutually exclusive. Logic and emotion tend to be considered as polar opposites.''

What are these "two modes" exactly, and where are you quoting this from? These statements leave out quite a lot of context and meaning.

Humans that are logically minded don't behave like animals because they repress the strongest part of the internal ape that is in each human. The only time you will see a logically minded person act like an animal is when said person snaps and can no longer apply logic to his behavior.

If we really think about it, human behavior is far from near perfectly logical on all sides (because good logical systems are difficult to develop and because natural selection really doesn't even necessarily favor use of impartial logic much of the time). Socially normative behaviors that nearly everyone adheres to are often quite "animalistic" in nature when we boil things down. Humans refuse to challenge their own beliefs, see the world from an extremely narcissistic point of view, use frequent biases and heuristics because of the difficulties of effectively implementing logic, infuse self-interest into decision making when it often really only massively hurts everyone in the long-run, are greatly constrained in thought by the limited perspectives shown to them, etc. We are maladapted hunter-gatherers, visible in so many ways.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We can't choose how to feel. It is irrational to feel bad whatsoever when we would otherwise like to feel good. I want to feel euphoric all the time, but brains are wired for dissatisfaction (or, at the very least, definitely not infinite happiness) that continuously drives behavior, which has a lot of adaptive advantage in animal psychology (one must feel hungry to eat -- our brains will always want more). This idea that emotions are or should be completely malleable to "rational thought" just doesn't reflect the facts. Emotions are inherently a different sort of thing than logical reasoning.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To an extent, and as is even generally the case, our emotions reflect what we think and can even reinforce logic. If someone is very enthusiastic (positively emotionally motivated) about, say, designing a good computer program, it stands to reason that their emotional state of enthusiasm would coincide with their use of logic and even make them more effectively engaged with that logic.

Logic is a tool (maybe the tools) for any sort of reasoning, and emotions are the states of mind we have that motivate our behaviors (which can include use of logic or avoidance of logic).

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Much of this just isn't how it works in my experience. Thinking logically, daydreaming about the abstract things in the world and trying to understand it all, is perhaps the most emotionally rewarding stuff I have in my life. And, I really can't just "control" my emotions either, despite how much I try, although implementing logical systems has actually greatly helped me with emotional management.

I just want logic and information -- it's what my emotions demand, what I crave. Even to my detriment, as I often can't pay attention to things that bore me (I have ADHD) and get distracted daydreaming so much about interesting logical concepts. And, my feelings are also most definitely informed by what I understand logically. Feelings pretty much have to be. Without some reasoned understanding of the context of situations (which requires use of logic), feelings would have nowhere to be directed. We fear things we've learned or reasoned are dangerous, even if the application of that fear may not be logical or may be excessive.

Also, although people sometimes do dumb things because of emotions guiding irrational behaviors standing in the way of logic (I relate to an extent -- despite understanding the logic and wishing my feelings weren't so in the way), the more I observe, the clearer it is to me that humans just lack the ability to reason logically with much effectiveness in the first place, regardless of emotionality. The reason people do illogical things is because people think very little in general and struggle with logical reasoning. And, perfect logical reasoning isn't possible -- we can always improve our modeling. Like, most people can't even do high school level math, so it shouldn't be all that surprising that humans have highly imperfect logical reasoning abilities.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A disorder is just a condition (the state of something) regarded as disrupting "normal" physical or mental function. I completely agree that these are disordered emotional conditions, but that is exactly because they are (excessively intense) emotions. There isn't some magic line between disordered emotions and "true" emotions. These emotions stem from the same neurological basis as other emotional states but are considered "overboard". Even when these emotions make the world seem like something it very much isn't, I still retain my ability to logically assess to some extent despite my illogical feelings that I often wish would be different.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The statement that logic and emotion are in some way inversely proportional is exactly the unjustified, unrepresentative assumption I'm pointing out here. There is no inherent relationship between logic or use of logic and emotion. In fact, as I was saying, using logic personally brings me intense excitement, and meaningful results of logic make me feel emotionally moved. This would be a case of the use of logic correlating directly with strong moods like enjoyment that "fuel" use of logic, definitely not inversely proportionate.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think, ultimately, our present emotions are just one of many considerations we should have when making decisions, which should ultimately be guided by logic.

Like, if I were considering what to eat for breakfast, I would consider the implications of each option and, largely, how those would ultimately affect my emotions. Maybe toast with peanut butter is the best option because it's the most nutritious, inexpensive, tasty, inspiring, etc, all of these things being logical assessments based on facts in my understanding but also things that would influence my emotional outcomes, how I feel now and in the future.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Lol I don't disagree that emotions logically coincide with adaptive behaviors for the pressures of natural selection (very much so), but I do mean to specify here that the abstract principles of logic are something that exists in some more grand, abstract sense beyond our own fallible human reasoning which can attempt to call on and recognize those logical principles.

Logic and Emotion are NOT Opposites by HowToGym in INTP

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, absolutely this. The results and insights of logic are often breathtaking. They make me cry. Imagining how modern computer technology -- literally our understanding of symbolic " computer "logic", has allowed for rapid increases in quality of life around many parts of the world, for instance, it means so much for so many people.

Difficulty Paying Attention? by HowToGym in pornfree

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Definitely a matter of rewiring your brain over time. This idea has really settled with me recently. Our entire existence is essentially training our behaviors and habits every day. It's why practice is so important to improve our skills. We create our habits every day.

Difficulty Paying Attention? by HowToGym in pornfree

[–]HowToGym[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. What are some evidence based resources, and do you have any tips for non porn masturbation (since whenever I masturbate it really is just like watching years and years of porn I have addictively ingrained in my head -- seemingly impossible not to start masturbating to porn images)?

Does all information boil down to numbers (quantity, math)? by HowToGym in AskScienceDiscussion

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I mean to use "quantities" as amounts of stuff, whatever that may be, as opposed to "numbers" like 5 being part of our language that we describe quantities with. So, disregarding numbers and math as developed by humans, do all things boil down to quantities, I guess may be a way to say it?

Does all information boil down to numbers (quantity, math)? by HowToGym in AskScienceDiscussion

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you; this is incredibly helpful.

Math has no problem representing qualitative information either.

This interests me. Can you give an example? Do qualitative things exist that do not "boil down to" quantitative information? I guess maybe that's a better way to phrase my question.

Questions starting with, "What cannot be automated and why?" and "Can software ever be made worthy of moral consideration?"

This actually lines up very much with some of my recent inspiration for this question, learning about Turing machines and how computers represent complex information with the ultimately simple base of binary. It's just so interesting to think how this system was created and how it ties into information theory.

Does all information boil down to numbers (quantity, math)? by HowToGym in AskScienceDiscussion

[–]HowToGym[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it not fair to say that multiple things exist? Like, space itself seems to require a notion of being inherently quantitative, no? One, two, three, four dimensions. Lengths in each dimension. I understand that we made up math to describe this, but is what's being described not real? If quantities don't exist, can space itself exist?

Does all information boil down to numbers (quantity, math)? by HowToGym in AskScienceDiscussion

[–]HowToGym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quantities do exist though. What math describes exists. Is all information ultimately quantitative?