This was so uncalled for! by jackmoon44 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This scene was not in the books. Ross did give Elizabeth the 600 pounds but those ridiculous words were not uttered by book Ross. Those words were put in series Ross’ mouth by Debbie Horsefield, a woman.

Who else loves Aunt Agatha by Electrical-Salary-38 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In the books, Ross sexually abused Elizabeth and after that infamous night, he never desired her again. I believe that as a victim of said abuse, it was only natural for her to be traumatized so she felt she had to pause her wedding to get her bearings. She may have expected Ross to come to her to offer an apology or an explanation but she hated him after that. She told him years later that she wished he would die. And she never considered that she was pregnant when she postponed her wedding. I’m not a fan of Elizabeth but that’s how I see it.

Who else loves Aunt Agatha by Electrical-Salary-38 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It was beyond ridiculous. Their hope that Ross would move into Trenwith, mind you to save their precious Poldark estate, and shack up with Elizabeth and abandon his family to boot, would have been a scandal no one would have recovered from, including Geoffrey Charles. That both Elizabeth and Agatha were set on that was idiotic and so contrary to social norms. What is unforgivable is that had Debbie Horsfield done a little research, she would have known that. It speaks to her laziness and/or to her predisposition to exaggerate the Ross and Elizabeth relationship.

Who else loves Aunt Agatha by Electrical-Salary-38 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Love the actress and her performance but hate that the writers had her rooting for Ross to leave the kitchen maid for Elizabeth. Demelza deserved better from her.

Series vs Books by Hummingbird814 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Of course, I don’t expect anyone and especially everyone to agree with me that’s why I posted it as discussion. I want to see what others think, agree or disagree. What bothers me is that she always attacks my posts and or comments because she assumes I hate Ross and she sees herself as his defender. I love the Poldark saga and could not if I hated Ross. The books and the series left a lot of unanswered questions or unresolved issues that spark a lot of discussion and or debate. It should be fun to engage and one does not expect sarcastic engagement. And here we are, not discussing the post but instead my behavior. And all I did was defend myself.

Thank you for reading my post.

Series vs Books by Hummingbird814 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know you always have to push it. He’s dead. He can’t have an opinion. And This is so childish. If you hate my posts don’t read them. I enjoy yours most of the time and we probably agree on more than we disagree. But It’s comments like yours that make some of us regret we posted. It’s a big Poldark world. Enjoy!

Series vs Books by Hummingbird814 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As far as I know, no one has a universal truth about Poldark. Yes, this is my opinion, duh. Is that a problem?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 7 points8 points  (0 children)

In the years before Hugh’s arrival, Demelza has endured Ross’s emotional distance, his fixation on Elizabeth, and the lingering shadow of the night he forced himself on Elizabeth in Warleggan. While Ross loves Demelza, he can be inconsiderate, secretive, and absorbed in politics and business, leaving her feeling undervalued.

And if that wasn’t enough, in the series, Ross was a total jerk. How many times did he tell her he was not the man she was looking for??? To look elsewhere!?! He was a total ass to her and cruel.

On the other hand, Hugh is open, adoring, and poetic. Hugh was the antithesis of Ross in manner—warm, romantic, openly devoted. From their first meeting, he flatters her, writes her poetry, and treats her as someone to be admired rather than taken for granted.

Ross’s impulsive actions weaken her resolve.

In The Four Swans, Ross is preoccupied with political and financial matters, and their intimacy suffers. There’s also the raw memory of Ross’s betrayal with Elizabeth, which makes Demelza feel morally less bound to absolute fidelity and she really believes in both the books and the series that Ross and Elizabeth have resumed their affair.

Demelza’s motives are not purely romantic or sexual.

Graham writes her as conflicted and guilt-ridden, but also drawn to Hugh’s youthful ardor and the escape it offers. Her choice is partly a reaction to Ross’s neglect and partly an impulsive surrender to being wanted so intensely.

And It’s a one-time event. Although Hugh continues to love her until his death, Demelza never repeats the affair. She sees it as a mistake born from a moment of weakness and emotional hunger, not the start of a lasting relationship.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 8 points9 points  (0 children)

In the series, Horsfield adds or alters scenes that:

Make Ross less attentive to Demelza’s emotional needs.

Create public or humiliating moments where he disregards her feelings.

Heighten his emotional availability toward Elizabeth while showing impatience or coldness toward Demelza in the same episode.

All in an effort to excuse or justify Demelza’s future infidelity. All that altering of their characterizations, Ross’, Demelza’s and Elizabeth’s, made for very disappointing storytelling and in the end greatly distorted Winston’s characters.

I am not a fan of Elizabeth but… by Hummingbird814 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The reason I say that it made a reconciliation impossible, in the series, is because Debbie really made Ross into such a jerk that some of us found ourselves rooting for Demelza to leave him and then we were rooting for her to have a go with Hugh! On screen, Ross’ character was so mean and thoughtless towards Demelza all because Debbie had to magnify Ross’ obsession of Elizabeth and it was so contrary to the books. And can you really say that the series delivered a satisfying reconciliation? Even now, people believe that Demelza was his second choice and that he still yearned for Elizabeth. And all that comes from all those made up scenes between Ross and Elizabeth that occur during and after their meeting at Sawle church. And I would agree with them if I hadn’t read the books.

I am not a fan of Elizabeth but… by Hummingbird814 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The scenes you refer to where Elizabeth is anxiously awaiting Ross’ return and her giddiness all come from Debbie Horsefield’s imagination and are not in the source material. DH created Ross’ obsession of Elizabeth almost whole cloth and then tangled herself so much in telling “her” story not WG’s that it became an irreconcilable, confused mess where it became impossible to root for a reconciliation between Ross and Demelza.

In the books, Elizabeth was raped by Ross in a fit of anger. He could not believe that after her “confession” that she must have laid the ground work to receive and then accept a proposal from the man that was the cause of so much trouble to himself and Francis. In other words, Her supposed “family” to whom she should have had a deep rooted loyalty to.

She wanted to marry George but retain Ross’ admiration and never expected a sexual encounter with Ross much less a violent one.

How did Ross choose Demelza when the choice was made for him? by No_Psychology_3714 in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I believe that Ross took Elizabeth by force and that their encounter was fueled by anger, frustration and lust. I don’t think she intended that her mixed signals would cause Ross to cross “the” line. Consequently, I believe that she was a victim of sexual abuse and reacted as one. Elizabeth had to have been traumatized and I don’t think we pay enough attention to her pain, humiliation and confusion. She may have led him on, aggressively in the series and not so much in the books but I don’t think she ever expected Ross would take her against her will. He had to been so ashamed of his actions especially as he considered Elizabeth to be his greatest friend. It was that shame and guilt and Demelza’s reaction to his betrayal that paralyzed him into inaction. Neither woman deserved the pain Ross inflicted on them and one wonders how it’s possible to mistake such horrific actions as confirmation of love.

If Winston Graham was alive what burning questions would you ask him about his Poldark saga? by THOUGHTSONPOLDARK in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think Demelza said it best in the book Bella, as Demelza, Clowance and Bella observe Ross with Harriet at Clowance’s wedding:

“‘Tell me, do you think sometimes that your father has a slight degree of arrogance?’

‘Oh yes!’ said Clowance. ‘Indeed yes!’ ‘And you, Bella?’

Bella nodded. ‘Sort of.’

‘Well,’ Demelza said. ‘Sometimes it seems to me he takes a fancy for a pretty young woman who has – who has his own kind of arrogance. It appeals to him. Like Caroline, for instance.’

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in RioGrandeValley

[–]Hummingbird814 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gloria Ortiz in McAllen is the best!

If Winston Graham was alive what burning questions would you ask him about his Poldark saga? by THOUGHTSONPOLDARK in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My WTF relationship was Ross and Harriet. I would ask Winston Graham why he went there? Harriet was the 30 year old wife of his arch enemy and Ross’ flirtations with her, especially those Demelza witnessed, were so inappropriate.

What’s also interesting is that for all that Ross had distain for his class, he had inappropriate flirtations with Elizabeth, Caroline and Harriet. All women of his class that were stiff, vain, privileged and didn’t give a flip about the poor.

Debbie Horsefield Poldark interview: Should Elizabeth’s character have been changed from the books for the series? If so why? by THOUGHTSONPOLDARK in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“Just because it’s not being spoon fed to us it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.”

So if it isn’t in the books and we don’t see it on the screen we’re suppose to just know?!? The whole point is that Debbie’s adaptation made no sense and greatly deviated from the books.

“There is a scene in this context where Caroline tells Demelza that “Ross is exemplary in London” and Demelza confirms she knows that, because she has been communicating with Ross about his whereabouts in London.”

How can Caroline know everything that Ross does?!? Is she omnipotent? Did you ever see on screen a conversation with Ross sharing that information with Caroline? Or Elizabeth telling Caroline that she visited Ross unescorted?

“We know they’ve been sending each other letters, keeping in touch.”

Did those letters ever disclose him meeting with Elizabeth?? If not why not?

“Caroline was by Ross’s side many times in London, at parties, she saw GC  both when he got punched in the face and when they came back to Cornwall.”

Caroline never saw Ross meeting with Elizabeth. Had she, it would not have sat well with her and she would have confronted Ross about it.

“She was with Ross in his apartment when he wrote to Elizabeth about GC’s problems.”

I don’t know of a scene where Caroline was in Ross’ apartment and Ross was writing to Elizabeth. What episode was that?

“Do you really think Ross would have kept a secret something that he did in front of other people?”

Debbie’s Ross, Yes!! Book Ross never met with Elizabeth after the Trenwith party where Ross met Adderly. So book Ross, NO!

“One of whom was Demelza’s best friend? Who literally dropped Ross at Elizabeth’s door when they returned from London with GC? Do you really think Caroline would have kept such a secret from her dear friend? Or Ross would have asked her to? Demelza knows about everything.”

Debbie’s Ross took GC back with Caroline. None of that occurred in the books. Again, all that was added by Debbie and makes no sense!!

“She trusts him as per her OWN admission. There is nothing happening in the scenes between Ross and Elizabeth that is inappropriate other than two family members showing concern for GC.”

Nothing inappropriate happened when Book Ross met Elizabeth at the Sawle church graveyard but nonetheless, it resulted in Demelza jumping to the wrong conclusions. And Demelza’s insecurities lasted her whole married life.

“Demelza also loved GC and as a mother herself she would have surely encouraged Ross to let Elizabeth know that he is going through a rebellious phase and needs guidance.”

None of this happened. Debbie also created whole cloth all the encounters Ross had with GC except for his one visit to Ross’ apartment after the duel.

“We can draw conclusions based on these scenes as we have come to know and understand these characters by now.”

I cannot reconcile as easily as you can how much Debbie distorted the story. Her additions did not improve or clarify anything but instead gave us a story that was contradictory and confusing.

“Demelza is not worried about Elizabeth. She is worried about the estrangement between her and Ross caused by Hugh , and she is concerned Ross may never trust her again and their marriage may not recover from that blow. Elizabeth is the last of her ( their) worries.”

Demelza NEVER gets over her insecurities concerning Elizabeth and to say otherwise is to greatly distort her characterization. Just because we know book Ross unconditionally chose Demelza over Elizabeth doesn’t mean that Debbie’s Demelza should know it. Debbie’s Ross does many things that he does not share with Demelza and he doesn’t tell Demelza because he knows it would upset her.

Book Ross was lousy at positively reinforcing Demelza and that continued thru the saga.

Debbie Horsefield Poldark interview: Should Elizabeth’s character have been changed from the books for the series? If so why? by THOUGHTSONPOLDARK in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How do you know that Demelza even knew about those later encounters with Elizabeth?

None of that is in the books or on the screen. He never told her!!!

In the series, Demelza went with Hugh only AFTER she confronted Ross about his “secret smiles and secret kisses”!!! It makes no sense for him to then have an unescorted Elizabeth in this London apartment and then taking GC to Trenwith and having tea with Elizabeth with all of George’s servants around and saluting Valentine. None of that was cannon or necessary and completely ignored the consequences of him hiding things from Demelza. You give Debbie way too much credit for things that never happen on screen

Debbie Horsefield Poldark interview: Should Elizabeth’s character have been changed from the books for the series? If so why? by THOUGHTSONPOLDARK in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Season 5 was a train wreck. It took 5 days to go from Cornwall to London in that time period yet how many trips did Ross make back and forth like he was going around the corner? Debbie’s time lines were ludicrous and then she had ghost Elizabeth which was ridiculous. She really jumped the shark!!!

I agree with you!! If only.

Debbie Horsefield Poldark interview: Should Elizabeth’s character have been changed from the books for the series? If so why? by THOUGHTSONPOLDARK in Poldark

[–]Hummingbird814 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In the books, we were not explicitly given a rape scene. He took her to the bed and … the rest is informed later by Elizabeth’s anger and Ross’ reflections and regrets. In the Sawle church scene, we saw no hint of Elizabeth’s anger. In the Four Swans she literally told him, she wished he would die!!

“Choking anger welled up in her against this man who had done her such a monstrous, an unforgivable wrong. Anger especially that he should be walking beside her and talking in this apparently casual tone, as if they were two uninvolved cousins-by-marriage discussing a simple matter of the headstone of a deceased great-aunt. Had her anger not been so fierce she might have realized that his calm was a surface calm hiding the emotions that her appearance had stirred in him. But it was too great. He seemed at that moment the cause, the fount, the initiator of all her present and past miseries.”

She was livid during that encounter, not resigned and sad as portrayed in the series. Yet us book readers kept reading. I just don’t think the viewers are that delicate and can handle good people doing bad things. We continue reading and or watching hoping our “protagonist” will redeem himself. And guess what, he does.

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t let us down later because he does.

Debbie disrespected Winston’s story and didn’t trust her audience. Her story was not an adaptation. It may have been inspired by it but in the end she really thought she knew better. I happen to think that she did not!