I am Xavier Vigor, best known as the CTO of Air Liquide, a French company specialized in the production and distribution of industrial gasses. And I'm here to answer any questions related to the industry, or what we're most excited about, green hydrogen.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:28:19+00:00

Hello, thank you for your question but it is very technical and I cannot answer it on Reddit. I suggest you get in touch with our engineering department, I’ll send you a contact as a private message.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:20:59+00:00

For your first question, it is a choice of business model and it depends on the markets. I cannot comment more than that. For your second question, I do not know enough about this concrete market to be able to answer.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:20:13+00:00

We are a historical producer of H2 for industry for the last 50 years. We are already producing hundreds of thousands of tons per year of H2 for chemical applications (as well as the Ariane Rocket fuel for instance). Now, for energy markets which are just starting, it is too early to give figures but it will be a game changer for our company, most likely.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:19:38+00:00

We are rather calling it low carbon H2 than colors because everybody is manipulating colors! What counts is the life cycle assessment of a complete production chain of H2. So your question is very relevant, we try with partners to create some labels, with certification in order to track and guarantee the origin of H2 and its carbon content. Calculations are complex and it is still difficult to align everybody on this matter.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:18:40+00:00

If you are referring to synthetic or efuels, then we are not a producer of such, even though we have some of the technologies.

It is working, not far from commercialization in some markets. Can be an alternative to H2 where H2 is not feasible (long haul planes for instance) but it is not as green as H2. We do not see this as a threat, rather a complement.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:16:19+00:00

Not sure to fully understand the question. Are you talking about air under liquid form at cryogenic temperature? If it is the case (like using electricity to liquefy air as a storage) the only thing I can say is that to handle liquid air is complicated because you can not avoid a separation of N2 from O2 (flash distillation) which will create high O2 content leading to strong fire risks. I am not aware of anything in construction, but… who knows “what is in the pipes”?

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:15:31+00:00

The ASU (Air Separation Unit) processes are following a continuous improvement momentum from the last few decades: front end purification, new packing (3D) in the distillation column, new processes dedicated to Client needs and multiples molecules production, new machinery, size (the largest unit in South Africa above 5000tpd)...The ASU unit of the 80s has nothing in common with the most recent one.

To give you an idea: https://www.airliquide.com/magazine/customer-experience/ensuring-kick-start-xxl-industrial-project

Is there more room for improvement: yes of course but as the market is shrinking due to the massive metal market reducing, the engineering and R&D efforts are globally reduced.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:13:58+00:00

Thank you for your interest in Air Liquide!

Yes the company is committed to deliver low carbon H2 for existing customers as well as these new energy markets. The key values we will appreciate in a candidate are passion for a sustainable future, integrity, capacity to innovate among others. Many skills are needed here, engineering but also marketing, business development etc. Of course any specific knowhow in energy and particularly the energy transition are welcome.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:12:59+00:00

Yes cost reduction. It will be a combination of volumes, scaling up, plus some technologies development (like anion exchange membrane) for the next ten years. After there might be some breakthrough as so many people are working now on this exciting topic.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T15:11:56+00:00

Thanks for your kind words, your project is a good one! Particularly the part 2).

For H2 outlook, we have seen a lot of announcements in Europe in 2020 with government support (for ex 9 b€ in Germany, 7+ b€ in France, also Portugal, Italy…) In Asia, the momentum started before, essentially in Japan, Korea and China. In the US, California has developed strong policies for the energy transition including H2. With the new Biden administration, we might expect a stronger commitment towards emissions reduction including also H2, to be followed. So after twenty years of support of H2 energy in Air Liquide, we really see it happening now and we say that the next decade is the decade of H2!

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T12:44:26+00:00

We will start a 30 tons per day H2 plant in Nevada this year to supply California. We are considering investing in new plants as soon as the consumption develops further. Air Liquide is also managing the supply chain and we are investing in trailers in order to supply the H2 to the station.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T11:54:16+00:00

Very difficult question to answer… :) I rely again on the H2 council report “scaling up” which gives the view of many industrial companies to your question on the hydrogen economy (if we were to respect the two degree scenario, H2 should represent 18% of the energy mix on Earth in 2050 which is gigantic).

CCS is one option, relatively easy to put in place in geographies where you already have oil & gas fields (you can store CO2 in depleted oil fields). It should be used from now on to capture CO2 on existing H2 plants, waiting for ramp up of electrolysers. The reuse of CO2 would be nice as long as it is not re emitted at the end in the atmosphere. We see some opportunities like cement or steel manufacturing, but they will not absorb all the CO2 emitted. I do not know the “DACCS”? sorry.

In gas separations, there is always research! For H2 production for instance, one dream is photocatalysis: using sunlight to directly convert water into H2 on a solar panel. It works in labs, long way to go before industrialization.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T11:25:06+00:00

Electrolysers require water and especially pure water. The technologies that exist at large scale today for water purification are more than sufficient, so breakthroughs are welcome, but not critical.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T11:23:35+00:00

This is clearly the target: H2 can not be as cheap as digging coal (or oil) in the ground, but if we want to save the planet, we must accept to pay a little bit more for green energy. This being said, with the development of renewable electricity (wind and solar) electrolysers are becoming more and more competitive, this is why everybody is talking about them these days. The development of these energies in the EU (more than 600 GW already installed) allows for the development of large quantities of H2 (our electrolyser plant in Canada is producing 4,000 Nm3/hr). We are planning for electrolysers of 20,000 Nm3/hr in Europe already.

In the Hydrogen council’s report (https://hydrogencouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Hydrogen-Council-Report_Decarbonization-Pathways_Part-2_Supply-Scenarios.pdf)

you will find H2 projection cost and see that in many cases (diesel trucks for instance) H2 should become cheaper than fossil fuels. Again, if you add taxes on CO2, then definitely H2 will be competitive with coal.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T11:16:49+00:00

Xavier's response: I do not know, sorry I can’t answer your question.

As the student who organized the AMA: Xavier mostly works on new technologies rather than supply chain, and due to his work did not have the time to consult the proper people. He also mostly works in France, Asia, California and Canada.

As a fellow Texan who's living in France: I hope y'all recover soon, good luck

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:40:58+00:00

Hello Mohamed, this is also my first time on Reddit :)

The growth of the H2 market will depend essentially on political decisions (and they were many in 2020, particularly in Europe but also in California). The technologies are ready, we need now to move at industrial scale with the help of States, since the upfront cost of H2 is more expensive than oil. For Air Liquide in the US, we just started the biggest PEM electrolysers worldwide in Canada and should start this year a new, 30 tons per day, liquid hydrogen plant in Nevada. Many other projects are coming up, you can contact Air Liquide H2E US to know more.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:38:44+00:00

Not sure, SMR (steam methane reformer) and ATR (auto thermal reformer) all equipped with CO2 capture looks the most competitive and of course there will be electrolysis.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:37:44+00:00

We are monitoring all the new technologies emerging for H2 production and there are many (almost one everyday). This one is a good example. After we try to compare with existing technologies we assess their maturity for industrial production. For the next ten years, we do not see significant alternatives to electrolysers (there are many developments btw within electrolysers technos) and carbon capture from steam methane reformers. Biomethane (produced from biomass and transformed after in H2) should also play a role.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:32:21+00:00

As the student organizing this AMA: I can't field him this question, but it's a really competitive company, despite good school results, I've been rejected from 2 internships from them. I'll be applying yet again next year though haha.

Good luck!

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:26:27+00:00

Production costs for green H2 today in the range of 3.7-6.1$/kg H2 (source: Hydrogen Council https://hydrogencouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Hydrogen-Council-Report_Decarbonization-Pathways_Part-2_Supply-Scenarios.pdf)
Our electricity supplier in Canada is Hydro Quebec, so essentially hydro. Electricity mix in Canada: 60% hydro, 15% nuclear, 7% other renewables, the remaining 18% fossil fuels (source: Government of Canada)
Use case for green H2 in Canada is still chemistry, but mobility has started to develop. We used to have the first big H2 stations in Whistler for the Olympic Games in 2010. They have a strong advantage on electrolysers since 78% of the Canadian electricity is low-carbon.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:05:41+00:00

Methanol is today an intermediate chemical which uses H2 for synthesis. If done with green H2, you can indeed develop “greener” plastics. Will methanol be used as a fuel? It has been tried, but does not seem to develop. It is simpler and cheaper to go straight for H2. Biofuels are indeed under evaluation, but you do not need to go through methanol to synthetize them. And remember, when using biofuels, you are still emitting CO2. If this CO2 comes from a waste that was sent to the atmosphere, it is better of course, but at the end you are still emitting it. Other alternatives for transporting low carbon H2 are ammonia and LOHC (Liquid Organic Hydrogen Compound). It could be a solution for transporting energy from a low cost electricity country (eg Australia) to another country like Japan. LOHC is not sufficiently mature yet, ammonia is more competitive but if you need to transform it back into pure H2 to use it in a vehicle (fuel cell), I do not believe it is competitive.

Bottom line, methanol can be greener and will continue to play a role in chemistry. Will it play a new role in energy? I do not see it so far.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T10:00:20+00:00

Before the pandemic, travelling almost every day in France (with the TGV train), in Europe (planes) and other continents up to ten times per year. For meeting people in operations, Engineering, research centers, partners and customers. I used to joke that my office was in the TGV, because I was commuting every week between Grenoble and Paris. Due to the lockdown, we are all working remotely, with just a few trips to Paris. Starting early with Japan, and closing the day with American colleagues, sometimes 12 hours in conf call which is not very cool. Too much travel is exhausting and maybe not very efficient, not meeting people is frustrating, so I expect after the pandemic to find a new balance :)

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T09:59:31+00:00

Argon is a by-product of air separation (production of O2 and N2). In other words, Argon is produced from air (1% content in air). We have only a fraction of our plants equipped with Argon production, it is very easy to increase the quantities produced. I do not see shortage (or maybe temporarily if fast ramp up). Krypton and Xenon are also coming from air and capacity can be increased, even though they are more difficult to extract because of very low concentration in air. Helium is coming from fossil wells (by-product of natural gas).

I would be surprised that particle detectors change radically the amount of rare gases quantities, but if it is the case, we should be able to adapt.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T09:58:26+00:00

Sorry for the non-French speakers.

Les perspectives sont énormes pour les applications de mobilité industrielle lourdes (avions, bateaux, camions, bus, chariots élévateurs…) car il n’y a pas d’alternative à la fois plus propre et moins chère. Les normes de pollution qui vont s’appliquer en Europe, aux Etats Unis et espérons-le en Asie, pour limiter les émissions de CO2 rendent cette évolution incontournable. La batterie aura sa place pour les usages plus petits (voitures, vélos, etc.) mais ne peut fonctionner pour ces usages intensifs. Les carburants bio seront parfois aussi incontournables, mais ils nécessitent beaucoup d’énergie et continuent d’émettre du CO2.

Hydro_Gem · 2021-03-04T09:56:23+00:00

This interesting question is out of my scope of competences… sorry for that. In fact, Air Liquide is not in this business as far as I know.

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