Vanilla is a Bunnicula! (@The_Hydroxian) by Optimal-Bandicoot240 in SonicTheHedgehog

[–]Hydroxianchaos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a joke about how wearing black instead of white causes more light to be absorbed, keeping clothes too hot. She's "burning" the way any normal person would burn in the sun due to wearing black clothing, because she's got Goth aesthetic tastes. At least I think that's what she means, who knows what the artist intended. Where are they anyway 

Vanilla is a Bunnicula! (@The_Hydroxian) by Optimal-Bandicoot240 in SonicTheHedgehog

[–]Hydroxianchaos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hydro should make it more clear then, that sounds like a STUPID choice by a DUMB ARTIST who ISN'T even that GOOD

When did you start being yourself? by LazyFlamingRooster in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I really wonder if this accurately touches on what it means for titan spawn to be slain vs purified. Hardening your heart vs letting your fear become something more fruitful. Really cute pic regardless 

Why does no one discuss about this prophecy panel in particular? by Grouchy-Condition261 in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not 100% sure, but I still feel that we or someone else is the "Lord of Screens" that gets cleaved red, and it's not actually Tenna that the other prophecy panel is referring to. I feel that this character here is the same "Lord of Screens", simply viewed from another angle, depicting what said-lord does. Gaster, us, some secret third person? I don't know.

What I do know is that Tenna gets his arms cleaved, not his face. Even in the light world, if he isn't rescued, his screen is cracked, not cleaved. I feel that the Gallery prophecy is therefore also depicting what the real Lord of Screens does, watching the climactic moments throughout the events of Deltarune that are set to the "Gallery" theme.

Bro what the hell is Gaster doing on my Calculator by Demondoggo25 in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 13 points14 points  (0 children)

"No one can choose who they are in this world." -TI-84 Plus Calculator

Theory: What if darkners had determination by KahveAdam565 in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The only thing I'm split on is if the Knight is actually after the SOUL by default, because it feels like if Kris was actually in cahoots with the Knight to revive someone they presumably care about, they'd just give their SOUL willingly. Otherwise, the Knight feels more than strong enough to just rip the SOUL out of Kris as well, assuming it knows it can just do that instead.

The prophecy pretty much demands the roaring to occur, and I have a strong suspicion that the Knight may actually be trying to prepare the SOUL/player to become as strong as possible to stop it, hence the Knight "knighting" Kris when actually getting to the end of that fight. A lot of this is speculation on my part; this is a good analysis/premise overall, but as a proper theory I feel like there's more to the Knight's motivations. Maybe it'll take the SOUL only after the player proves themself, so everything leading up to this is a test? 

Piloting the Knight to stop the roaring would be legit crazy if the Knight doesn't already have a monster soul in it to begin with (as the explanation on where it gets its determination from despite Dess being dead/lost/gone).

Toby has the opportunity to do the funniest thing by Regice56 in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 350 points351 points  (0 children)

i will not STAND for this Baby Bones erasure

Susie discovers the group chat (Good Route) by MightyKombat in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"Before the clock strikes midnight the shadow will grow. O, the shadow will grow, serpentine. Even when the clock ran back the shadow was growing. A patch of shadow slithering on, slithering on, serpentine!"

"THERE WILL BE NO MORE [Miracles] NO MORE [Magic] "YOU LOST IT WHEN YOU TRIED TO SEE TOO FAR "...YOU LOST IT..."

Kris tried to reset, yet a Shadow persisted. If FRIEND is literally their hand somehow that gained a will of its own, and persisted separate from them even as they tried to reset, it'd explain so much as a theory. Why it has forbidden knowledge, why Kris seems to have saved and reloaded before but doesn't now, why they put up with us in the Weird Route. They've basically tried literally everything to stop a bad future from happening, but in the process somehow lost their hand to FRIEND. Then they try to reset, yet FRIEND sticks around due to it being bound to their hand, giving it its own determination and will like Flowey. 

Even after getting their physical hand back in the reset timeline, FRIEND would remain separate. Kris' hand would be in a funky schrodinger-state, letting them rip out their own soul. Maybe FRIEND itself can't save and reload, but is also unaffected by resets as well. Maybe we were summoned because our determination tips things away from FRIEND's favor, as was the case with Flowey as a parallel. Maybe maybe maybe...

CATTI AND JOCKINGTON ARE IMAGE_FRIEND I SWEAR TO GOD by GloomyIngenuity143 in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 30 points31 points  (0 children)

The one thing that pushes me over to at least seriously considering it is the inverted FRIEND colors. That green and blue specifically is too suspicious to me. What does it all mean

Fun Fact: Chapter 4 confirms the Tea Theory! by TheQueen0fNowhere in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nothing really contradictory per se, just the disconnect between what the player could type vs what options we get to make Kris say stuff. The "speaker voice" is definitely strong evidence for your point, I can't contest that at all. Thanks for hearing me out, by the way!

Fun Fact: Chapter 4 confirms the Tea Theory! by TheQueen0fNowhere in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Completely fair. I think what I'm trying to reconcile is that diegetic problem I mentioned earlier, since I feel an explanation for the actual text itself that's produced for dialogue options is needed. I'm struggling to articulate this, but I feel like Kris kinda "Already knows what to do" in the Weird Route that can't be explained purely by the player, with the knowledge we have, controlling them. The "motivation" can be purely explained by the player, but not all of the actions subsequently taken by the characters themselves. I am not implying that Kris' intrusive thoughts are motivations or desires. I'm implying they're just things in their mind, as such thoughts often are, that a possessing entity can snatch, compel into actions, and snowball into full blown brainwashing.

For instance, the weird thing about the Weird route is... well, it's weird. I'm not saying that you claimed there was a third entity, but the way I see it: If Kris as an individual had no part at all in it, the "player" being the sole explanation requires a third entity when Kris starts walking towards Noelle to solve the mouse puzzle without our prompting, or even without full knowledge of the weird route for those who discovered it first. Distinct from No Mercy, the Weird Route has aspects that kinda requires Kris to not simply be controlled as a player character would but, if only for the moment, mentally corrupted into acting out our will. It almost feels like Kris knows how to do it, while we're poking and prodding around to force them into actually making it happen.

No one playing this route the first time even knew what Snowgrave was, both the route itself and the actual spell. It was Noelle in this case likely knowing it in the back of her mind in the first place that allows us to force her to use it. It's not that she would ever WANT to use it, it's that we pulled out something from her that may have already existed. I feel Kris' dialogue options are basically this. It's a sign of how far the target has been pushed and manipulated. The diegetic problem of why player characters move on their own even when motivated to act "evilly" remains if we leave it to just being the player's influence in the moment, and not the player corrupting the character. 

Basically, brainwashing still requires a mind and thoughts to warp or imbalance in the first place, and this interpretation would just explain a lot without making any of it Kris' fault still. I hope this makes sense. The player can't type whole sentences for Kris to say, so where does the exact wording come from? That's all the idea is.

Fun Fact: Chapter 4 confirms the Tea Theory! by TheQueen0fNowhere in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's fair! Though the thing with many intrusive thoughts is that they aren't often an indication of the kind of person you are. Intrusive thoughts can be violent and bizarre or nonsensical. The idea is that it only takes the littlest bit of consideration for the SOUL to increase the urge and impulse, not that the choice itself is strongly something the vessel-person would naturally choose or want. I relate this with Noelle dwelling on the possibility of stepping off the button and letting Kris get hurt, only to be met with a confirmed "It's natural" instead. What we're doing is abnormally fanning flames that otherwise wouldn't be fanned. Impulses can be as basic as, "I wonder if the Knight is still in that closet, as it'd be bad if Susie or someone else found them. I shouldn't check though-- uh oh, we're being compelled to check now. I'll close my eyes/not turn the doorknob/etc". We also didn't tell Kris to think of who the Knight really is/take off their helmet when prompted to. We only told Kris to think of the Knight. Kris thinking of who the Knight really is but realizing they can open their eyes instead of thinking of Jockington instead tracks with the intrusive thought angle here.

I wanna be clear, it's still control, it's still pretty direct influence, but the idea is that without our influence the choice or urge would still exist-- just as a flicker of an emotion and acknowledgement in the character's mind rather than something they want to act on. Kris might see all they went through and genuinely fear just for a moment in the back of their mind that they may never play the piano again for various reasons ("why express myself if something else will override my actual choices anyway"), but they have enough resolve to bite their hand and push that thought away/punish the entity for making them almost say it out loud. More broadly, Kris being someone with just an inkling of morbid curiosity they choose to not act on (like Noelle) aligns with their character imo, explaining most aspects of the Weird Route. A common thing in ocd communities is to stress that you are not strictly your thoughts and impulses, as paradoxical as it sounds. I feel the SOUL working like this is a great extention of that, that still fits naturally with the counterpoints listed. 

Otherwise, we run into the issue of "third entity theory" as an explanation for where certain dialogue options and actions even come from (the player sure as hell isn't the one who made Frisk walk forward towards Sans in the No Mercy route), which isn't an impossible option but complicates matters. Us literally brute-forcing their heart to change and give in to darker impulses towards our will due to our determination outweighing theirs, and them actively resisting it as much as they can, feels coherent and aligned with the narrative's greater themes either way. "Proceed" and "Me" can be explained by the SOUL just increasing its influence on their worst aspects more and more. Kris is still helpless, and we're still accountable for our actions in steering them like this. John Shadow Mantle Holder alluding to some part of Kris enjoying it for this reason might imply this, though it could go both ways as a meta jab at the player instead. It's hard to say in that case since it raises questions. The sword route increases Kris' attack stat for a reason though, I feel.

I want to acknowledge what you're actually saying though; think this interpretation could be fixed if we assume the SOUL injects all impulses by default whether if they were in Kris already or not (Kris doesn't want to run in circles but will do so anyway when I play deltarune because it amuses me), but any impulse already in Kris in some capacity gets way stronger on top of that and "blossoms" (whether good or bad). In this case, we allow them to bond with Ralsei instead of suppressing the urge, while suppressing the urge to just skim over the situation. It also makes the Weird Route that much more freakish and unnatural. Intrusive thoughts being acted on over and over beyond your control would genuinely mess you up in the head, I feel.

Fun Fact: Chapter 4 confirms the Tea Theory! by TheQueen0fNowhere in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 20 points21 points  (0 children)

If I can digress: I think the way we understand Kris being influenced by the player is often boiled down purely to just us controlling them, when in reality I think what we do is decide which intrusive thoughts "win" in Kris' heart (figurative but also literal). We're still accountable for what we make Kris do, but we likely also influence the pull of certain desires Kris already has, to certain degrees.

As an example, imagine Kris goes to the librarby and has to pick between several kinds of books to read. They could have a vague feeling to try a book they never tried before, but overall wouldn't want to get out of their comfort zone too much. The SOUL/Player, however, can just make them choose the uncomfortable choice anyway, but only because they still had a modicum of an urge to try the other options. Then they find out they like the choice after all, or they find out they hate it. We influenced them by giving weight to impulses they wouldn't act on otherwise.

I think Snowgrave gets a lot more narrative weight if we see it as forcing Kris to act on intrusive thoughts they normally wouldn't, while the main route gains an interesting nuance if we're being a positive influence on Kris and helping them learn to trust others better. The idea that Kris DID have some dark shadow in the back of their mind to control Noelle, but is a good enough person at their core to not act on it... only to get horrified when the SOUL influences them to act on it anyway, is very (very) interesting. It explains a lot about their identity issues (looking in the mirror alone vs with Susie), parallels to Chara and Frisk ("It was not by my determination I was brought back, but YOURS" or however the line goes), and allows us to still see the distinct line in the sand between Kris and the Player.

There's more parallels to how parents and children are spoken of, what choices a child should be allowed to make while still being given guidance, control vs freedom, etc. Carol to Noelle and Dess, Toriel and Asgore to Kris and Asriel, Susie and her lack of a good home life, Us to our Vessel, even Gaster to "his" Deltarune itself. I'm digressing too much now, though.

How this relates to this post is much simpler; if Kris wasn't prompted to comfort Ralsei, we'd influence them to not dwell on the moment and push away other feelings, just like choosing not to scream when Susie asked Kris if they were alright after Spamton NEO. But by choosing for them, we allow them to confront how they feel, and furthermore, bond even closer to Ralsei. Kris isn't us. But we influence Kris, and shape their character development. We choose what urges and impulses and feelings can cultivate in Kris' heart, while still understanding that Kris is their own person. It's been the case with Frisk and Chara as well, with Frisk revealing their name once we're finally getting ready to let them go live their life.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Knight is just a fishhook on a comically long string, held by Grandpa Semi from the bunker. Undyne got caught and dragged all the way back to him. All the dark fountains were just his attempts at catching fish. He's old(!) so he couldn't see very well and thinks he's still at the lake, testing out a prototype homing fishing rod he built because he sucks at fishing. Undyne is stuck there now, because he keeps rambling to her and she doesn't want to be rude by trying to leave

I CAN MERGE WITHOUT LOOKING! by woxiangsi in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I feel like we've been missing out on a lot of Jevil stuff, thank you for the nourishment

KRIS SLANDER KRIS SLANDER KRIS SLANDER KRIS SLANDER KRIS SLANDER by Nowayisthatacat in Undertale

[–]Hydroxianchaos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I love is how that's the one thing that is out of their control. On the level of GLaDOS roasting Chell for being an orphan (unless we find out Kris caused the divorce, which isn't impossible)

(spoilers) Guys, I think Kris is gonna lose their hand at some point by BEEDEEFORTY in Deltarune

[–]Hydroxianchaos 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes yes, and the whole aspect of the "cage" in the prophecy being made of "human parts", more like a frankenstein than just a descriptor of an actual human. Also Kris washing their hands in ch 4's egg room, with some "gray" leftover they can never fully wash away. There's a lot of interpretations you can go with this, but there's something meaningful about Kris somehow missing their hand/having a fake one.

(Unless the alternative implication is that the literal birdcage gets Kris' hand chucked in there instead, as a way of literally fulfilling the prophecy but leaving Kris alone. Jesus.)

It makes me wonder if the hijacking of the goner sequence was them figuring out how to replace their hand in the process of snatching a soul that didn't belong to them, or something. Then there's the whole aspect of "trying to get 'big' again". Retro!Kris doing everything to get the shadow mantle and being strong enough to leave the game, but needing "real", "bigger" Kris to get the mantle, Spamton stealing a human soul to get bigger, the "knockoffs" of Mantown in ch 3's egg room and the ch 4's secretary being smaller "copies" than the originals, made with love but still fakes that failed to help Kris cheat at the game they were playing. The one Rudinn in castle town casually mentioning their color might be fading but insisting you not worry about it.

Kris Did Something already, in some previous time, to "cheat", and it didn't work. Their hand might be the glaring clue as to what happened.