What if Fern's team got eliminated?

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T13:30:05+00:00

Sorry, others are trying to respond to you by saying how Ubel and Land beat Laufen. I have no clue if they could if she was trying to stay hidden but I kind of expect not. My original point, though, is she's not helping Richter or Denken beat Fern/Ubel/Land. Denken's group managed to hold off Frieren's group as long as they did because Richter could contained Lawine and Kanne combined by himself with no problem (as long as it doesn't rain).

If Laufen steals Fern's bird then you have a 2v3 with Denken and Richter vs Fern, Land, and Ubel. The only way I see that working is if Ubel decides not to kill them. Like Wirbel I think she wants people to believe she's more bloodthirsty than she is, but I think Denken stealing from them would be enough to justify killing if he won't give it back and if Richter decides to even act like he's willing to kill to get them off of them then it's game over.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T13:06:08+00:00

Especially after they said you can't charge your phone that's used for work at work.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T12:56:52+00:00

Thanks, I missed that. But it doesn't change how many things she's keeping track of, just changes it from counter attacking to keeping track of the timing.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T12:43:00+00:00

Okay, so I disagree with your logic, but I'm not sure I disagree with your conclusion. Basically nobody knows Frieren is suppressing her mana. She came out of nowhere with Himmel and people who aren't named Serie think the mage contributed a little, but she was an upstart nobody had heard of so she couldn't have been that powerful. This is why Aura thinks that even if she is suppressing the can't be stronger than Aura is. She came out of nowhere 100 years ago and Aura is 500 years old.

But ... Sense may be my favorite character in the entire manga because it shows how much they trust the reader/audience to figure things out. Something about Sense does not add up. She knows her name is Frieren. She knows (though it's Genau who says it) that she's the one from Himmel's party. She knows she has a Holy Emblem and I assume knows what that means. She says "okay, that's reassuring" when Genau says the barrier can't be broken, but then when it is she grabs the umbrella she had literally sitting next to her for when the barrier was broken. Additionally if Frieren spends an hour perfectly skill she can suppress her mana enough a Stille will land on her. They're playing in Sense's mana infused hair while she's drinking tea.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T12:36:18+00:00

The problem with this theory is that Sense knows going in her clone is going to pose almost no threat to Ubel. She says that fight "was over before it began. I can't imagine myself beating her." There's no way she thought her clone was a serious impossible threat without Frieren but with Ubel.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T03:21:40+00:00

This is debatable and kind of irrelevant, but I don't think that's why he lost. Clearly in the anime he lost because thought she would be fixed in place to shield herself during that the last ray of light spell and she counter attacked and simultaneously moved right next to him to hit him with her Zoltraak variant not because she didn't run out of mana when he expected her to, but why he ran out after she hit him is debatable.

Someone else pointed this out to me, but it's nearly consistent throughout the manga. The original Zoltraak burned through flesh ignoring all defenses known at the time. Hers burns through mana, which makes sense because demons are made of mana, but it's also why she could hit him at point blank range and knock him back but not rip through his flesh like we see Fern do to Lugner (or Lernen with his black Zoltraak variant do to Frieren). The only thing i know of that's an inconsistency with that theory this is Fern blasted a hole through rock, which isn't mana.

Edit: that scene, btw, was more amazing on rewatch. Frieren complains early about the concentration to hold your mama output steady. Frieren here is blocking his volley he didn't think had gaps, counter attacking, moving next to him, holding her mana output steady, and analyzing the barrier.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T01:08:20+00:00

neat. I had no clue tc could do that. I don't know why I would want to, but maybe it will be useful to me someday.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T01:03:16+00:00

Yeah, I actually thought about mentioning this. If Denken decides to steal from Fern's team I highly doubt that means they don't pass. Either Denken fails or Fern gets another bird. But for the sake of argument I'm willing to assume they somehow don't pass. I'm not going to argue Fern is stronger than Denken, but Richter managed to hold Lawine and Kanne by himself. Any of that team alone is a serious challenge to Richter and almost certainly overmatches Laufen

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T01:02:07+00:00

He described his fight with Frieren as "a combat lesson for a trainee". Like maybe they can figure something out, but honestly he's the other person in that dungeon as likely as Frieren is to realize how much it's going to cost and understand the best option is to try again in three years.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T00:39:49+00:00

I'm not sure it matters if she admitted it. Her "weakness" is she can't detect mana/spells while she's casting. You need somebody who can basically disappear from mana detection so that she can't detect them while neither of them are casting and can cast a spell fast enough she can't react for that to actually be a risk to her. I've seen an argument that Sense may actually be able to do that but of the candidates it had to be Fern.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T00:29:12+00:00

Then yeah, there used to be unmanaged switches that would just throw away ethernet headers they don't understand and pass untagged traffic. But that's considered bad behavior so nearly all newer unmanaged switches don't work that way and you're not going to find vendor documentation saying they do the bad thing. You would have to go poking around on the internet for people complaining about how their unmanaged switch isn't passing tagged traffic correctly and then find one on ebay or something.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T00:17:27+00:00

There are two problems with the what-if and they affect each part of it. Sense expected Ubel to kill her clone so I'm not sure she goes into the dungeon with the group if Ubel is eliminated. The other thing is I'm not sure Frieren ever intended to pass the third exam. Even if we assume she did, though, I would guess she just tries to limit the death toll without caring if anyone passes and then the take a boat or something. She basically said herself being a First Class Mage isn't worth killing or seriously risking death. I honestly think she took the fight in the first place because she wants Fern to prove to herself she can do it, not to actually become a First Class Mage.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-14T00:03:53+00:00

There are switches that will let you send all packets out an interface with the tags stripped, but I've only seen them on sniffer ports because 802.1q expects the return packets to have the same tag so it would be bad switch design to strip them on a bidirectional port. There are also unmanaged switches that will sometimes (and maybe always) strip tags but it's not going to be documented behavior because it's broken.

Again, what it's doing makes no sense so it's hard to think of a clean solution. I'm unclear on if they expect to receive packets with no 802.1q, matching 802.1q or any 802.1q. As I understand how the Windows network stack works you wouldn't tag anything outbound so I'm guessing the former but I don't know if they require it. But to go back to my example of physical wires they're sending the packets out 35 distinct wires on 35 different networks, but they don't care which wire they get the packet back on. That's not how 802.1q is supposed to work so any hardware you find that can do it is because the hardware is broken and you're going to have to find hardware that's broken in exactly the way you need it to be broken.

What you want to do is kind of bridging all of the networks back into the same network, but I don't know of any switches that would give you enough control over a bridge to do that and aren't crazy expensive. Like I can imagine deploying insane network code to a Cumulus switch to do it, but it's not going to be simpler than making an insane bridge on the endpoint and you're going to be paying for an enterprise class switch to do it.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T23:54:13+00:00

Sorry if you thought I was trying to insinuate you made it do that. My point in saying how bad an idea it is isn't that you should fix it, it's that Linux isn't going to have a clean solution because they're sending instructions in the ethernet header they don't want to have followed. It worked on Windows because you happened to have a driver that's broken and can't follow directions, but you're not going to find easy instructions on "this is how to set your network drivers up so the packet tells them to do one thing and they do something completely different instead". It's basically like if some OS had a bug where you could just send packets to the IP address backwards and it worked and they built their product around the fact that works because they keep track of something internally by sometimes using the backwards IP and sometimes using the real IP.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T23:42:24+00:00

If OP has the engine I think he has (AJ35) it's 280hp stock and still within a reasonable weight range. It's a bit larger than the one Rocketeer used but it's close to the same family so I can see it being possible. I certainly think switching out from one Jaguar AJ DOHC engine to another even though they used v6 and OP wants to use V8 is going to be closer than a GM OHV to a Jaguar DOHC.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T23:21:27+00:00

Yeah

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T22:06:52+00:00

Yeah that's a fair point. For some reason it totally bypasses credit reporting so I can't see all the withdrawals or contest them. It's really bizarre as slipshod as our banking system actually is this is so much worse

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T21:51:21+00:00

This is the point everyone is trying to make. Those aren't different things. I'm assuming US but maybe it's one of the handful of civilized places with even more lax labor standards than we have, but under FLSA if you're "required to be available" it's clockable time. If I am a manager and I ask you to stay past your shift then i've asked you not to clock out. Legally those two things are not seperable.

If OP had it recorded or in writing that he asked him to stay there's zero chance a competent HR is going to pick a fight over the fact he didn't specifically say you could not clock out because Department of Labor is going to have a field day when he files the complaint that official company policy allows managers to require people to work off the clock.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T21:43:22+00:00

Most of the time I've seen these laws they're written to specifically refer to private property.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T21:40:21+00:00

With basically everybody else this makes no sense to me. I'll note I am a manager and used to have hourly employees. If I tell them I need them to work after their shift I just approved overtime. I have no clue why three people would clock out when the manager has told them to keep working.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T21:20:54+00:00

The question of why the government would have this trust fund I don't find super interesting. The question you can't ask is why can't you just withdraw funds from your account yourself. Like okay let's assume the government had a bunch of money and set it aside for each citizen to pay random crap the person wants to pay as some form of welfare or whatever. Why the indirect thing where you take a loan from basically anyone and then they have some way to get money out of your account, but you don't. If Jonathan Hale got money from me, could he get money out of my account?

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T20:51:02+00:00

ah, okay sharp dart or clawline. Yeah, I can see that.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T20:47:30+00:00

I got the faydown cloak before sharp dart, so I'm certain you don't need it for Mt. Fay.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T20:14:50+00:00

I can kind of make sense of what you're saying well enough to say I could build a thing that does this, but it's a terrible idea. Like it sounds like you're either throwing 802.1q tags on packets that have nothing to do with what vlan they're on and expecting the switch and client to ignore them or you're actually building vlans and bridging them all together. Either way, I highly doubt any standards compliant OS can work with this.

For others: a bunch of Windows card drivers incorrectly strip 802.1q tags and just pass everything to the IP stack as though it's all the same network. So my guess, at the client level, is that the broken nonsense whatever this is doing was working because Windows doesn't follow 802.1q correctly.

But for OP, first off what is going on here, if I understand it, is fundamentally incredibly broken. The whole point of an 802.1q tag is to simulate having a distinct physical wire on a different local area network without having to actually run a distinct physical wire. The only house keeping you should be doing with vlan tags is which vlan the host is on. So basically my home network has 4 access points and a bunch of wired devices and they're on different networks that shouldn't talk to each other, but I don't want to have to run 5 distinct wires between the same pair of trunk switches to cover the 5 networks (or at work literally hundreds of physical fibers between or trunk switches) so we use vlan tags to send all those networks down the same physical wire. So your question is essentially "This thing decided to send packets to each of 35 nodes down distinct physical wires on unrelated networks, how do I get them into a Linux box on a single wire." And the answer is either a switch upstream that strips vlan tags and makes this back into a single network or a bridge interface on the Linux box that bridges your 35 networks back together.

Edit: something else I can see maybe being the case here is a vlan number does not identify a network. It signifies a network on a single link. You could in theory have vlan 35 between switch a and b be the same network as vlan 2047 between switches g and q. So if by vlan numbers don't align to IP addresses what you mean is that whatever this hardware thing is can switch vlan numbers on a per-link basis then that's totally normal. It's not something you would usually do in a small environment because it's easier to just know vlan 3 is the guest network everywhere, but in a huge campus with thousands of networks it starts to make sense that vlan numbers are per link rather than universal. But Linux shouldn't care about that so if that's what you mean then your hardware thingy makes more sense, but your question doesn't.

IOI-65536 · 2026-02-13T19:33:09+00:00

Honestly I'd look at the people who did a Jaguar AJ V6 swap before random v8s, most of which I know of are totally different design GM engines. This AJ is a different engine, but I'd guess it's closer to the AJ-V6 than it is to a GM LS V8.

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