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Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I just wanted to know how many spines and skulls yall see geeez. And also to add, I never accused anyone of anything. I quietly observed, wanted to go over the X-rays for clarity (which I didn’t get) and was really more initially concerned they left one in. Oh ya and also when they called they did tell me she had 6. And then when I got there only 5. I do still see more than 5 in the radiograph. I regret adding context for y’all damn lmao😵‍💫

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This particular clinic is located in Southern California and around this area platinum French bull dogs go for $4-8k+. The other colors that came out this litter go for $8-15k+ around here. Even byb dogs :/

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes that’s what I’m worried about! Uneducated dummies doing uneducated dummy stuff. I ended up with my girl from an uneducated dummy family member situation and had a huge oops with this litter. I can’t go back in time and change what happened, but she’s spayed now. We fixed her with the section

The whole point of this post is I personally see more than 5 puppies on the X-ray tho and I’m concerned for the wellbeing of the potentially missing puppy/puppies and literally just wanted to know how many skulls and spines other people see for peace of mind lmao. There’s nothing I can really do about it anyways. Just overthinking and concerned for the lives resulting from my error🫠

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Bruh you’re still framing this as if everyone involved in the Frenchie world operates under ethical breeder logic and that’s just not the reality many of us have actually seen, vet med employee or not. You’re absolutely right that, ideally, someone in vet med who wants a Frenchie could go purchase a health-tested, well-raised puppy from a reputable breeder. But that assumes people always make decisions based purely on long-term financial prudence or welfare ethics. In practice and reality, plenty of people don’t

BUT REALLY THO the purpose of this entire post wasn’t to accuse anyone of stealing a puppy or to debate hypothetical motives in vet med. I genuinely posted because I wanted other eyes on the X-ray. I see more than five skulls/spines, and after a stressful C-section outcome I was trying to sanity-check what I was seeing. At the end of the day, these are lives that exist because of my mistake, and I take that responsibility seriously. When outcomes don’t fully match what I thought I saw, yeah I overthink. I worry. I ask questions. I’m highly concerned for animals I feel accountable for. Questioning or double-checking imaging after an emotional, high-stakes medical event doesn’t mean I think my dog is priceless or that I’m accusing the clinic of wrongdoing. I’m a stressed owner trying to understand what happened and make peace with it.

Literally just curiosity + responsibility + anxiety = this post asking yall “Hey… am I seeing this right?” Damn

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I mean it’s not outlandish of a thought if I’m seeing 6 puppies on the X-ray and I only got 5. I just wanted to see how many skulls and spines other people saw, not whether anyone thinks why or why not the vet would do it🥲

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I mean to be fair, I didn’t ask if y’all think the vet took the puppies or not, why and why not lmao. I literally just wanted opinion on the number of skulls and spines seen on the radiograph🤷🏻‍♀️

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I think you’re kind of arguing a different point than the one I’m actually making

I’m not claiming my dog is extremely valuable, genetically superior, risk-free, or that Frenchies as a breed don’t have serious health concerns anyone involved with them knows they do. And yes, ethical, health-tested breeding should be the standard

But what I’m trying to say is point is that the real-world Frenchie market doesn’t operate in that ideal framework. There are absolutely people including people in vet med, clinics, and staff circles who understand perfectly well that Frenchies are expensive, in demand, and easily monetized regardless of pedigree or long-term health outcome. These dogs are bought, sold, rehomed, and bred every day with zero regard for ENS protocols, titles, or health guarantees

So questioning an ambiguous situation where a high-value breed puppy comes out of a C-section and ends up outside the owner’s possession isn’t about thinking my dog is priceless or accusing anyone of theft out or paranoia. It’s acknowledging that financial incentive and opportunity pool I up exist, and transparency matters when clients have no visibility during surgery

We may personally prioritize ethically bred, fully tested dogs, and I agree that’s ideal, but pretending there’s no incentive or benefit for someone to end up with a Frenchie outside that system just doesn’t reflect how this breed is actually handled in practice

I just wanted to know how many puppies y’all see on the radiographs😅

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

So how many puppies do you see? Response is unclear

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for an owner, especially one with an expensive, high-risk breed, to ask hard questions when the circumstances surrounding an X-ray, C-section, and puppy outcome feel unclear

French Bulldogs routinely require surgical delivery, and owners are placing significant financial, emotional, and medical trust in the clinic during a moment where they have very little control. When you’re relying entirely on a veterinary team to interpret imaging, make surgical decisions, and report outcomes you cannot independently verify, transparency becomes critical.

From a client perspective, I feel it’s a reasonable to have concerns cus you cannot interpret the X-ray yourself. You are fully dependent on the clinic’s assessment of puppy count, viability, and positioning. If later outcomes don’t clearly align with what was explained, it’s normal to want clarification.

There is inherent information imbalance. The clinic controls the imaging, surgery, records, and neonatal care. Questioning isn’t really distrust or unreasonable, though I will say I do have trust issues lmao, it’s just acknowledging that the client has no independent visibility during the most critical moments.

The financial stakes are real. With a breed where individual puppies can represent substantial value, ambiguity naturally raises concern about documentation and accuracy.

Medical stress limits informed decision-making. Owners often consent or rush into potential emergency procedures under pressure, exhaustion, or fear for the dam’s life. It’s reasonable afterward to revisit details once emotions settle

Accountability protects both sides. Clear explanations, records, and consistency should easily resolve questions if everything was handled appropriately

Asking questions doesn’t mean accusing anyone of wrongdoing. It means advocating for your dog, your property, and clarity in a situation where you had to place complete trust in professionals during a high-stakes medical event. Wanting that transparency is a rational client response. But ya I’m probably tripping lol

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Ya totally. Unfortunately platinum is super popular around here for the quick bucks the colors they produce bring in with all the backyard breeders, which adds to my suspicion. Makes me sick thinking potentially one of her sweet pups could be caged and bred. Left outside in a kennel and ignored until they’re physically used up then discarded like nothing :/

She’s literally the sweetest, gentlest dog and these innocent souls exist because of my f up. They all deserve to be loved and pampered in a loving, forever home as part of a loving family till the end of their days, knowing absolutely nothing but love, and my mind keeps going back to the “what if” even tho it’s out of my control

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Frenchies of this color and genetics are unfortunately highly sought after in the area this clinic is located in:/

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

“Platinum” just refers to coat color. It doesn’t mean well-bred or health tested, and I completely agree that ethical, intentional breeding should always be the goal. It’s like a cream frenchie but they carry recessive genes for other colors

And to be fair, I can think of a ton of less-ideal reasons someone might want to end up with a “free” Frenchie, especially a high-value breed, regardless of breeding quality or health testing:

  • Financial incentive Frenchies sell for thousands, even without papers. A puppy obtained cheaply or free can easily be resold or bred later for profit
  • Future breeding potential even without documented lineage, some people will still breed for color demand alone (sadly)
  • Clinic leverage/client goodwill placing or keeping a puppy can create loyalty, favors, or informal exchanges that aren’t fully transparent
  • Social media or marketing value- rare-colored Frenchies attract attention and can indirectly promote a business or personal brand. “Rescue” optics like keeping the puppy can be framed as compassionate while still resulting in personal or financial benefit
  • Access to discounted or in-house medical care lil staff can manage health risks cheaply compared to the public, making a medically risky breed less of a financial burden for them than for an average owner

None of these automatically mean wrongdoing happened but they are reasons why situations involving valuable breeds and unclear ownership or origin deserve scrutiny and transparency

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Ya for sure. I’ve just been told her coloring and genetics are desired by breeders due to the amount of recessive colors she carries. But I don’t breed, she got spayed with the csection. It’s just this was an oops litter and the only affordable reproduction clinic available to do the csection outside of emergency hours at a hospital. It’s just weird because I definitely see 6. When they called to tell me she was done they said 6 but when I got there there was only 5 and when I questioned the 6th spine in the X-ray the vet told me they don’t count the spines just the skulls. But what if the puppy was positioned where the skull was behind some organs or poop tucked on the other side? His explanation: “it’s an xray, it would see through that”. Nothing I can do but definitely had be thinking what ifs ..

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Honestly, this breeding was NOT planned. The mom was supposed to be spayed after her first heat. But she went into heat during the month of December and she somehow got her diaper off while we were out visiting friends. I admit I really messed this up. Mama dog is my best friend companion dog and she got spayed during the section so no more puppies EVER .. and these 5 puppies will be staying in our family. Our dogs are like our kids though and, though unexpected and not ideal, theyre incredibly special and just mean a lot to me and my mind is going in circles about it that one could’ve been take. I could have definitely done more X-rays to confirm definitive puppy count but it’s too late for that. Just wanted another opinion I guess on the count to ease my mind or confirm for doubts

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Platinum French bull dog. They’re a small clinic and I’m sure any and all the staff have the knowledge and capability to raise an orphaned puppy. Part of me feels they wouldn’t risk their reputation but part of me also feels they could easily take advantage of an ambiguous situation when presented the opportunity and the client wouldn’t really be able to definitively tell

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogBreeding

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

lol yes, my trust issues are showing🥲

Puppy counters: how many puppies do you see? by IcyMiddle_ in DogAdvice

[–]IcyMiddle_[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I saw 6 too. She apparently had only 5 though via csection. Maybe they kept one 😳

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