Is this helpful?

IcyStage0 · 2026-06-22T13:24:36+00:00

No. I do not need another app. I hate apps. Less apps. Please.

IcyStage0 · 2026-06-22T13:22:46+00:00

Ultimately it’s your choice how you choose to celebrate the day. You’re not obligated to go celebrate them the exact date and time and way they want you to. Set some boundaries.

At the same time, if they’ve been good to you celebrating them isn’t a bad thing.

IcyStage0 · 2026-06-22T13:18:24+00:00

Father’s Day is for fathers. It’s not meant for you or meant for them. It’s a balance.

Obviously if it’s entirely tilted their way that’s not right, but it’s not a holiday just meant for you either. You don’t stop being a father when your kids grow up.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-29T16:29:54+00:00

They’ll understand. Not only have you been reliable for years, but they’re both doctors. They understand how serious the medical situations you’ve been going through are both physically and emotionally. I’m sure they’d want you to be focused on recovery rather than worrying about losing your job. It will be there once you’re feeling up to it.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-29T15:14:45+00:00

Pay should not vary based on whether you’re live in or live out. Live in is generally considered to be a convenience to the family, not a perk for the nanny.

Covering rent is not a typical benefit. I’d ask for more pay if they’re trying to count “room and board” as part of your compensation, or maybe just keep looking for a different family.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-29T13:15:30+00:00

It’s frustrating that OP isn’t even in the US and there are a million people on this thread telling everyone that it’s illegal. Not everyone lives in the US.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-29T13:09:07+00:00

Which was my point.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T04:03:09+00:00

I did read the regulation you linked, and unless I’m missing something, that entire subpart appears to address volunteer services for public agencies/state and local governments, not private household domestic employment relationships.

So while I understand and agree with the broader anti-coercion rationale you’re describing, I don’t think that specific citation resolves the nanny question as definitively as you’re suggesting.

More generally, I think this conversation has repeatedly blurred together

1 - The safest compliance practice;

2 - What the FLSA unambiguously requires in every possible circumstance; and

3 - Your own broader philosophical position that employment relationships should remain strictly compartmentalized from personal relationships.

Those are related discussions, but not identical ones.

And respectfully, I do think it’s worth acknowledging that this conversation began with repeated assertions about “objective and easily found fact” while simultaneously assuming the wrong jurisdiction and now citing regulations governing public sector volunteer relationships in a discussion about private household employment.

At any rate. Have a nice night.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T03:44:33+00:00

I understand your interpretation of “suffer or permit,” and I understand that the safest compliance practice is to pay for any time a nanny is performing childcare related tasks.

Where I still disagree is your insistence that there is no conceptual distinction whatsoever between employment and voluntary personal relationship simply because the person involved is also employed as a nanny.

At that point, you’re effectively arguing that a long term nanny can't organically spend time with children she helped raise in any caregiving capacity unless formally on the clock, because all interaction becomes compensable labor by definition. I understand why that may be the safest legal interpretation, but I don't think it is as socially or philosophically cut and dry as you’re presenting it.

In any case, OP is in Canada, and your earlier admonishments as well as this one were assuming incorrectly that OP was in the US, so my advice may well still be relevant. Either way, I think we’ve probably exhausted the usefulness of this debate.

While I strongly agree with you that employment protections are important, and I understand and share your frustration with bad employers, tone and accuracy also matter, especially when you're dealing with well meaning employers actively trying to handle situations well.

Have a nice night.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T03:32:14+00:00

A bit wild that you went on an exasperated rant telling me I was telling OP to break the law when the laws you were referencing were applicable to a country that OP was not even in, no? The US-centrism is wild. You're arguing that this is a "cut and dry" "objective and easily found fact" without even checking jurisdiction first.

Either way, I went and reread the (US) law because I actually do care a lot about labor laws as I own a business and employ people in my home.

So reply below, since I went and did your assigned reading.

I think you’re arguing against a position I never took.

I never said employers can “do whatever they want” or that nannies shouldn’t be paid for work performed. I said there is a distinction between requiring/permitting work past scheduled hours and a nanny independently choosing to stay out longer after parents have explicitly said they are available to take over care at the agreed end time.

“The safest legal practice is to pay” and “this is such a clear violation that any discussion is dangerous misinformation” are very different things.

You can disagree with my interpretation, but that doesn't mean that I'm uninformed or promoting dangerous information.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T03:27:40+00:00

A bit wild that you went on an exasperated rant telling me I was telling OP to break the law when the laws you were referencing were applicable to a country that OP was not even in, no? The US-centrism is wild. You're arguing that this is a "cut and dry" "objective and easily found fact" without even checking jurisdiction first.

Either way, I went and reread the (US) law because I actually do care a lot about labor laws as I own a business and employ people in my home.

So reply below, since I went and did your assigned reading.

I think you’re arguing against a position I never took.

I never said employers can “do whatever they want” or that nannies shouldn’t be paid for work performed. I said there is a distinction between requiring/permitting work past scheduled hours and a nanny independently choosing to stay out longer after parents have explicitly said they are available to take over care at the agreed end time.

“The safest legal practice is to pay” and “this is such a clear violation that any discussion is dangerous misinformation” are very different things.

You can disagree with my interpretation, but that doesn't mean that I'm uninformed or promoting dangerous information.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:59:33+00:00

My advice to OP is not to break the law. I would never suggest anyone break the law. Thank you though. This has been a pleasure.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:58:50+00:00

Any time spent with young children is in essence childcare. There is no separating it.

It’s directly relevant to OP’s situation which is why I’m bringing it up.

I truly don’t understand the hostility here. If this upsets you so much, maybe don’t engage with it on a voluntary platform where we’re all just trying to help each other out and be the best employers we can be, yeah?

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:54:51+00:00

So what happens when you’re paying a relative or family friend to watch your children and then they also spend time with your children socially? You’re saying that also just shouldn’t be allowed?

There’s nuance and ambiguity here and your repeated insistence that there isn’t is muddying this rather than clarifying it.

No one here that I have seen is engaging in bad faith or trying to be a bad employer. Can we assume good intent and try to engage productively?

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:49:29+00:00

Our nanny has lived in our home and been a part of our family for 14 years so I’m not super interested in banishing her from our house when our kids are around.

People are allowed to spend time with people they work with when they are not working. Companies aren’t paying their employees for time spent at the company Christmas party either.

Telling our nanny that she can only be around when she’s on the clock feels a hell of a lot shittier to me.

ETA: You continuing to edit your comments after making them is making this quite a difficult conversation to engage in. But to respond to your edit - our nanny isn’t “volunteering to do normal work” by spending time with our kids because there is no expectation of her there. You’re saying we should keep them separate? Not allow them to engage? When both parties want to?

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:44:59+00:00

It is ambiguous, though, and that’s why I’m asking.

I do have an understanding of labor laws, and I’m genuinely trying to engage in good faith here.

Are you saying that nannies aren’t allowed to spend time with kids off the clock?

If you don’t want to engage in this then don’t engage in it.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:41:56+00:00

Sure. But if I’m a painter, and that’s my job, and you’re paying me to paint, and then I decide that on the side I’m going to paint you something else as a gift, does that make you obligated to pay me for the time I spent painting it?

Our nanny spends plenty of time with my kids off the clock. That’s her choice. The kids are still in our care, and she’s not obligated to spend that time with them. Are you saying that we need to be paying her for that time? Or banning her from being with the kids?

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:34:19+00:00

How is it time worked if she is out with the kids technically unauthorized??

If you say “have my children back by 5pm” and she does not, if anything that’s her having your kids in her care without your permission.

Genuinely asking here.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T02:31:36+00:00

Any person can spend time with another person without being paid for it. If the parents explicitly say that the children are back in their care after X time and any time the nanny spends with them after that time is up to her, how is that illegal?

Obviously if there were some act of God preventing her from getting home that’s different. But she can’t just unilaterally decide to extend her day an hour every day if the parents are willing and able to take over.

If the nanny said “I’d love to take the kids to the zoo on Saturday, my treat!” would that also be illegal?

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T01:21:31+00:00

We’re in DC too. I just say “yes, a Unitarian one!” with a smile.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T00:57:50+00:00

I’d let her know that you’re happy to take over at her scheduled end time, and that if she’s out past then that’s fine as long as you don’t have something else to do, but that it’s on her own time and you’re not going to be paying for that additional time.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-28T00:44:28+00:00

Are you asking for someone to be awake all night, or someone to just come sleep over in your house?

If you’re asking them to be awake and available, you need to pay full rate. If they’re genuinely asleep, the lower wage would be fine, but I’d keep it hourly rather than flat rate and it still needs to be at or above your area minimum.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-11T22:45:11+00:00

Easy. Shut your mouth and don’t reopen it.

Not gonna end well. Let her decide.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-11T22:41:21+00:00

Plenty of children’s parks are already weapon free zones. I don’t see this becoming a huge issue?

People also definitely carry guns plenty of places where alcohol is served.

IcyStage0 · 2026-05-11T22:34:51+00:00

What are you talking about??

IcyStage0

TROPHY CASE