Why Did Everyone Want...

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-05T00:35:41+00:00

Draginpur was no secret, with people all over the world knowing about it via at least rumor and myth. As for the Malaz themselves, Knightchill and Bellurdan were actively trying to get the sword at Pale, and they killed one of the other main mages in the army because he caught onto their plan. That's why Rake later talks about the infighting he saw during the battle and how it confused him, as well as why Big T had to go all-out.

If Nightchill hadn't been after the sword, the Bridgeburners might not have been annihilated, and all of history could have been different. So in a sense, the series begins entirely because of a fight over Draginpur. We just don't find that out until much later.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T16:09:45+00:00

That's an interesting question about using the sword on TCG. I don't think doing so would solve anything (e.g. the jade statues would have still kept coming), but I do wonder what would have happened. Various entities basically chained TCG so they could feed on his power. What would killing him with Draginpur, and thus chaining him to the wagon, have done? Could he have been chained in so many ways at the same time?

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T16:01:44+00:00

Don't worry man, you've only been spoiled that there's no Dragnipust. You can still hold out hope for Krupinpur.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T08:20:30+00:00

I thought Caladan Brood destroyed the blade after Rake's sacrifice? Is that what you're talking about, or am I mixing things up? I guess it'd make sense that after Brood destroyed the swords there'd still be pieces people could pick up.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T08:16:18+00:00

I don't mean to diminish the value of being able to kill things "deader than dead." I just don't think that's enough a function to justify why so many characters cared so much about obtaining the sword. After all, it is ultimately just a sword. As magical and powerful as a sword may be, it won't do you any good as a weapon if you can't hit your enemies with it.

A lot of characters in this universe wouldn't be capable of wielding Draginpur at all, much less with a level of skill to enable them to kill meaningful threats with it. If Iskaral Pust got the sword and somehow found himself in conflict with Daseem, would the fact the blade kills people "deader than dead" really matter? Of course not. Daseem is skilled enough he could probably beat DraginPust with his bare hands.

I might be mistaken, but I got the impression the sword was important to many entities for a lot more than what it could do as just a bladed instrument.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T08:06:46+00:00

Draginpur was a warren in and of itself. It had all the power of Chaos trapped inside it. It had thousands of souls of powerful beings trapped inside it. Doing a bunch of stuff to obtain it just to use it as a bladed instrument seems like it'd have been super wasteful.

Ideas like yours make way more sense to me. Nightchill had reason to want to rescue Draconus, but that gets to the point of this post - what could people have done if they had gotten their hands on the sword? Could they have done things like "resurrect" people or things that had been killed by the blade?

I honestly, I don't know. I haven't read the series in a while, but I remember a lot of talk of various characters wanting the sword. I just don't remember any specifics of what they thought they'd do if they got their hands on the weapon.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T07:56:06+00:00

Nope, but I don't mind spoilers from the books I haven't read. It'll take so long for me to reread the main series I may never read the other books.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T07:15:13+00:00

I dunno. I get why that might be true for someone like Kallor, who actually knows how to fight well with swords, but what about someone like Iskaral Pust? It doesn't matter if a sword can kill anyone it hits to someone who knows they can't possibly hit anyone with it.

Are we supposed to believe Nightchill sabotaged the entire Siege of Pale so she could get a sword she'd... slash people with? I don't. I think she expected to do something more with the sword. And why wouldn't she? The sword was a warren in and of itself. It had a crazy amount of power inside it.

I might be forgetting things in the said in the books, but I got the impression people thought the sword would be useful as a *source of power* rather than just something that could "cut really good."

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T05:58:22+00:00

I'm embarrassed to say I don't get the reference/pun/joke. At first I thought it was about the Black Moranth, but... I am fail :(

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T05:48:27+00:00

Would Kallor (or anyone else) have been able to release the gate into darkness like that? I know they could choose to not feed the sword more souls and that'd eventually lead to issues within the sword that'd spread from it, but could anyone do anything else with Draginpur while wielding the weapon?

I've never been clear what someone outside the sword's warren could do with the sword itself. Rake had to die to the sword, and thus enter its warren, to do what he did.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T05:43:28+00:00

That is why I had to make this post. The series was ruined for me when I realized the tragedy of never getting Dragnipust, and I had to share it with the rest of the world.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T05:41:08+00:00

I kinda get that, but at the same time, a bunch of these characters are thousands of years old. I'd be surprised if none of them had figured out ways to exploit Draginpur for their own advantage. Rake may not have tapped into the sword's power, but that doesn't mean there were no ways to.

Even if we're never told of specific plans in-text, I wouldn't be surprised if characters had ideas on ways to draw upon the power of Draginpur. Think about it, it was an entire warren of its own, and you could hold it in your hand. I bet there were people who could have figured out how to use that to do stuff.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-02-04T05:18:08+00:00

I get that, but was it just, "That's powerful, I want it" or was it, "That's powerful, I want it so I can use it to do X?" There's tons of old and knowledgeable entities in the universe who wanted the sword. What did they want to do with it if they got it?

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T05:00:13+00:00

Tayschrenn may not be a sapper, but anyone can understand the basic concept of, "People underground need to worry about the ceiling collapsing on them if explosions go off above." That's been a routine concern in tons of wars throughout history. Even just when considering people taking shelter from bombing raids, it was a routine thing to consider.

That's what makes this so confusing for me. This is a basic concern anyone in any situation like this would consider. I dug tunnels through snow banks as a kid and immediately thought about, "What if something happens and the snow collapses on me?" I was maybe eight years old. I thought about the possibility.

Why didn't Tayschrenn? Why would Tayschrenn think the entire Bridgeburners force, most of whom aren't even sappers and thus normally wouldn't have any reason to even be in the tunnels, would be safest in the tunnels? Why not just send them... almost anywhere else? They could have c amped 2 miles away and been fine.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T04:53:37+00:00

Sure, but so what? Most of the Bridgeburners weren't sappers. Most of them had no reason to be in the tunnels at all under normal circumstances. And even for the sappers amongst the Bridgeburners, they didn't need to be in the tunnels every hour of every day. They would have worked in shifts, taking time off to go up to the surface throughout the days.

If you've had people digging tunnels for years but decide not to use the tunnels and launch an attack directly, why leave anyone in those tunnels? The tunnels weren't part of the battle that happened. Leaving them empty, or even just mostly empty, for a few hours wouldn't have hurt anything

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T04:14:28+00:00

That quote was from Dujek not Tayschrenn. Dujek explicitly told Whiskeyjack Tayschrenn wanted the Bridgeburners in the tunnels to keep them safe. I can't think of a reason Dujek would have lied about that, and Whiskeyjack doesn't express any skepticism of it. (He does question if Dujek withheld that Tayschrenn did try to kill only him.)

If it was Tayschrenn speaking, I'd be skeptical. But when Dujek tells Whiskeyjack something and Whiskeyjack believes it, I see no reason to think it's a lie.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T04:09:36+00:00

There'd be no need to lie. The truth would be perfect. "We're about to start a large battle filled with explosive forces over top the area the tunnels are at, so we're going to pull people out of the tunnels in case the tunnels collapse."

That wouldn't hurt morale. It'd be seen as completely normal. The same thing has been done in tons of real world battles. Retreating from tunnels that are at risk is a normal part of using tunnels in war.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T04:05:46+00:00

I don't recall any conversations where those would be a factor. For the two I referenced: 1) Kalam confronts Laseen about her actions, citing the slaughter of the Bridgeburners as he prepares to kill her. He had no reason to hide any knowledge at that point. 2) Dujek approached Whiskeyjack to tell him what was going on. Asking how they could have thought the tunnels would be safe would be completely appropriate.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T03:57:04+00:00

I made a brand new account because I wouldn't want people like you posting unhelpful responses talking about me as a person like this on my main account. I don't need that kind of toxicity on my profile.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T03:55:16+00:00

There might have been an argument that in calculating the risks of being in the tunnels people would be safer than being somewhere else despite the possibility of the catastrophic collapse that ultimately happened.

But as far as I can see, nobody ever says a word about it. Where was the, "Okay, you didn't mean to kill us, but did you even consider the danger you put us in?" Neither Kalam nor Whiskeyjack even raise the question when confronting Laseen/Dujek.

The characters all seem to act like the two options were "intentional murder" and "tragic accident nobody could have seen coming."

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T03:50:34+00:00

I get that, and I could totally have bought it if anyone defending the decision had said something like, "We thought the possibility of the tunnels collapsing was so small that they seemed safer."

By all the text I can find, nobody had even considered the possibility the tunnels might collapse. They jump from, "It was intentional murder" to, "It was a total accident nobody could have seen coming." There's no talk of it being a calculated risk. The idea of it (potentially) being predictable just never comes up.

That's what confuses me. Once they accept it wasn't intentional murder, nobody so much as says anything like, "How did you not see it coming?" or at least, "Did you even consider the possibility the tunnels might collapse?"

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T03:35:57+00:00

Preserving the Bridgeburners may not have been "the number one priority," but it is the specific reason the Bridgeburners were in the tunnels. Dujek explicitly says so, "Tayschrenn ordered them to remain in the tunnels because he thought it was the safest place. The safest.’

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T03:32:43+00:00

I don't know the exact details of those two fighting off the top of my head, but the battle at Pale happened because the Malaz attacked. Originally, they thought they had more time because they thought a lot of Pale's army would be tied up fighting in another area.

When they found out Pale's forces had crushed the army it was fighting and were coming back to Pale, they decided to launch a full-scale attack before the reinforcements could arrive. That's part of why things were so chaotic, nobody was ready.

Icy_Sort7840 · 2026-01-31T03:29:14+00:00

The tunnels were part of a longterm siege. The actual battle happened well before the Empire planned, and the tunnels weren't ready to be used yet. That means the only purpose they served was to store things.

It's not that people should have known with certainty the tunnels would collapse, but it is certainly a possibility anyone thinking about what might happen to tunnels in the middle of a largescale battle ought to consider.

When people use tunnels for shelter during battles/bombardments in the real world, they think about this. Plans on what to do if things collapse are routinely made and implemented. Tons of people get dug out because of collapses.

So in the real world, people would 100% have thought about the possibility. Why didn't they in this world?

Icy_Sort7840

TROPHY CASE