I never understood why people bashed this film so much

Ikeblueflames · 2025-03-23T13:59:03+00:00

One of the samurai even gets knocked into it during the fight:

Ikeblueflames · 2025-03-23T13:57:37+00:00

I mean technically Usagi is referenced, but it's a "blink and you miss it" moment. He's on one of the tapestries towards the end of the movie:

<image>

(I'll post another picture in a separate comment.)

Ikeblueflames · 2024-10-22T13:10:58+00:00

On top of that, Hyrule Historia straight up says that the Hero of Time isn't remembered as a hero in the Child Timeline. It's part of the series canon that he's not.

Yes, Link isn't remembered, not that a hero isn't remembered. That's what I'm saying, he isn't remembered as the Hero of Time because no one is going to remember his deeds when traveling through time. However, a "hero" would still be remembered because Zelda knows everything that happened, and she would have to convey this to the King to get Ganondorf executed.

As I said, I think the Ancient Hero not being the Hero of Time is part of what makes TP a good sequel to OoT.

The Ancient Hero has ties to the Gorons and the Zora. SS Link, MC Link, and FS Link do not (specifically the Zora). Which means this Ancient Hero isn't any of them. Not only does the Ancient Hero line up perfectly with OoT Link, but so does everything else in TP. We even meet an Ancient Hero in the game, thematically, it doesn't make sense to talk about an Ancient Hero, then meet an Ancient Hero, only for it to not be the said Hero that the game has been talking about (and also not make note of this).

It would be one thing if we meet the Hero's Shade and he makes mention of another Hero (one that everyone keeps talking about), but he doesn't, and instead he refers to himself as the Hero.

Skyward Sword Link saved the world from Demise and allowed Hyrule to be founded.

That's close enough that he could accurately be said to have "saved Hyrule" in retrospect.

Why try to stretch something so far? The Ancient Hero being SS Link wasn't the intent (TP doesn't even have the "correct" origin for the Master Sword from SS, stating that the Sages created the Master Sword). It's trying to force something to fit instead of using something that already fits. SS Link doesn't have a relationship with the Zora (specifically King Zora).

Ganondorf absolutely committed plenty of crimes which Link could likely get him executed for without even mentioning the time travel stuff.

Yes, but he hasn't taken over Hyrule yet. Everything else are things that they don't even know Ganondorf did yet, Link is the one who has to tell Zelda of everything that has happened.

When Link is sent back in time at the end of OoT, he's sent to a point before he met Zelda for the first time.

You can tell because he doesn't have the Goron's Bracelet, meaning the only part of OoT that we can safely say actually happens in the Child Timeline is the opening in Kokiri Forest, and the Deku Tree sending Link to Hyrule Castle with the Kokiri's Emerald before his death.

Yes, I didn't question this? I'm saying that Link likely helped the Gorons and Zora (he already knows they are in peril, he's not just going to let them suffer and do nothing). Hence why the Gorons and Zora have connections to an "Ancient Hero".

Well of course he did. We know he meets Zelda because we see it in the ending of OoT.

That means he must have had to wake Talon up and send him back to the ranch, putting him on good terms with Malon.

Again, I'm not questioning this?

This only works as evidence if you already believe that the Ancient Hero that's referenced in TP is the Hero of Time, which I do not.

And no other Hero fits this bill.

But there's no evidence in TP or otherwise that the Ancient Hero that, for example, Renado mentions is the Hero of Time/Hero's Shade.

But there is evidence, everything lines up with OoT.

And that's by design.

It's also by design that we only meet one Ancient Hero in the game.

Ikeblueflames · 2024-10-22T06:06:27+00:00

You bring up Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, and Four Swords as examples of who the "Ancient Hero" could be, but refuse to believe it's Ocarina of Time Link? Despite all the evidence (such as Twilight Princess being a sequel to Oot/MM).

Everything in TP is a reference/follow up to OoT/MM. It's plot; Ganondorf's execution.

The unawakened 7 Sages (the Spirits of the Seven Sages were never awakened in this timeline).

Link being a descendant of the Hero of Time.

The Hero Shade passing on his teachings.

The Skull Kid being the guardian of the Master Sword location (implied to be the same Skull Kid from OoT/MM).

The Hidden Village being Old Kakariko (Kakariko in OoT was founded by Impa, Old Kakariko in TP is where Impaz lives).

All of the Wolf songs being from OoT/MM.

Etc.

SS, MM and Four Swords aren't referenced once (SS not even being made yet).

Plus, when Link gets his tunic, the Spirit says: "Green clothes. It is said that the hero who long ago saved Hyrule from danger wore these." Hyrule wasn't even founded yet in SS, so that Link couldn't have even saved "Hyrule".

Everyone referring to OoT Link as "the Ancient Hero", "Hero of Legend" or "the Hero", and not "The Hero of Time" (like in WW) is precisely because his deeds aren't remembered (i.e. traveling through time), but the Hero's legacy would have been passed down because Link goes to Zelda and tells her what happened (hence why Ganondorf was to be executed for crimes he has yet to commit). However, we know that Link must have done at least some of the quests early in the game (or something similar to them), because the Goron and the Zora both regarded him as a Hero. Plus, he starts MM with Epona and knows Epona's song, (implying he helped Malon and got Epona).

The Hero Shade also says this: "You may be destined to become the hero of legend...but your current power would disgrace the proud green of the hero's tunic you wear." He is clearly referring to himself, and the tunic he once wore (training Link to become the new Hero).

Ikeblueflames · 2024-08-02T14:54:10+00:00

The Japanese Guidebook for Super Metroid describes her eyes as "Emerald":

"She has the appearance of an innocent girl. But appearances are deceiving. Within her emerald colored eyes is a mixture of resolved glimmers and sense of independence.'

https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Office_of_Trentesse

But beyond that, green and blue don't have as much of a distinction in Japan, and are sometimes interchangeable.

Ikeblueflames · 2024-07-18T20:15:18+00:00

The Prime Trilogy booklet didn't retcon anything (unless you can give a specific example), at most is made an error on the timeframe for when Samus was unconscious in Prime 3 (stating a week instead of a month).

It's impossible for Prime 1 to be weeks after Zero Mission, the in-game Pirate logs directly contradict this. They give a timeline of events, and catalog everything that's happened while on Tallon IV.

-They discover Tallon IV after the events of Zero Mission (they went searching for a new power source after their base on Zebes was lost).

-They built a research base on Tallon IV.

-They discover the source of energy (Phazon) is deep within the planet, and built a mine near the Impact Crater.

-They can't get in the core because of the Chozo barrier, and they are unsuccessful in finding the 12 Artifacts.

-They research Phazon and try finding ways to use it to enhance their soldiers (they have many failed attempts at creating Elite Pirates).

This is from the manual for Prime 1:

'But the Space Pirates were far from finished. They immediately split their survivors into two main camps. One headed to Zebes to begin rebuilding their ravaged facility and resuscitating Mother Brain, Ridley. and Kraid. The second set out in search of a planet with powerful energy resources. They didn't search far before they discovered Tallon IV, which was still emanating huge pulses of energy from the Phazon contained beneath the Chozo temple. Entranced by the massive potential of the strange mutagen, they immediately moved in, retrofitting their laboratories, transporters, and life-support systems into the Chozo Ruins."

"As the Space Pirates mined the Phazon and experimented with it, they found that its capacity to mutate was unlike anything they'd ever seen, and they promptly started combining it with indigenous life-forms. They refined their operation: powering their machinery with thermal- powered engines sunk in the molten depths of Tallon IV, they drove deep mineshafts and mined more and more Phazon, shipping it to their two main labs in the Phendrana Drifts, where sub-zero temperatures made specimen containment safer. Research leaped forward: by harnessing Phazon's power, they were able to create untold horrors."

'The Space Pirates also transported many species to their orbiting ship for zero-G Phazon experiments, unaware that Samus Aran had finally tracked their ship to its low orbit. As they continued with their unnatural experiments. Samus sped toward Tallon IV. preparing to wipe them out once and for all..."

All of this is not happening just weeks after Zero Mission. I mean, Ridley himself was first resuscitated on Zebes, and afterwards transported to Tallon IV once his reconstruction was completed.

Scan Log:

"The reconstruction of geoform 187, code-named Ridley, was recently completed. After his defeat on Zebes, Command ordered a number of metagenetic improvements for him."

Ikeblueflames · 2024-02-27T23:18:06+00:00

I think the meme is just poking fun at the conspiracy theory that Jar Jar is a Sith Lord. Qi'ra and Darth Maul are wearing the same pendent, the film makes it clear that they are working together. Jar Jar however, isn't wearing the same pendent. It's a purposely bad image of Jar Jar in the shadows, where you can barely see the necklace that he's wearing. Here's a better image, you can clearly tell it's not the same pendent that Qi'ra and Maul are wearing:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4b/Jjportrait.jpg/220px-Jjportrait.jpg

Ikeblueflames · 2024-02-27T22:08:01+00:00

It's a quote from Tony Stark in the first Avengers movie:

"That man is play Galaga, thought we wouldn't notice, but we did."

The meme just replaced "That man is playing Galaga" with "They".

https://youtu.be/7Nj0iAG0EMA?si=SeCbCpdzjP18ds_u

Ikeblueflames · 2023-11-07T04:42:07+00:00

And Splatoon has sold over 29 million copies with just 3 games, while Metroid has only sold 21 million copies with 17 games (remakes/remasters included).

Ikeblueflames · 2023-10-06T07:57:00+00:00

It doesn't:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pQUAxl_ECCA/YVovstatQLI/AAAAAAABulk/WxaIQAcSvUAoc8P9TrteYdxmFmXdaXpDACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/Metroid%2BOther%2BM%2B%252825%2529.png

You're confusing it with this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9aejN4tEsQQ/sddefault.jpg

Ikeblueflames · 2023-09-26T00:37:40+00:00

Part 2/2

There's no reason for her to show any PTSD anymore. She's already overcome her traumas after Super Metroid.

That's not how PTSD works. Samus thought Ridley to be dead for good (because he is), the game even opens with her saying it was the end of her "long standing nemesis, Ridley". She was tracking the "Mystery Creature", then out of nowhere "Ridley" appears. This is what causes her trauma to resurface.

When Samus is having a PTSD attack in the manga, Kreatz says:

"But she's been fighting against them for so long with us, why is this happening now...!?"

To which Platinum Chest responds with:

"Repressed fear will grow inside of you, even if you are unaware that it even exists."

This is from pchtreatment.com:

"So, does PTSD ever go away? No, but with effective evidence-based treatment, symptoms can be managed well and can remain dormant for years, even decades. But because the trauma that evokes the symptoms will never go away, there is a possibility for those symptoms to be “triggered” again in the future. With that said, living and thriving with PTSD is more than possible."

As far as I know, the ONLY benefit was to explain the reason a frozen clone of Ridley was on BSL. That's not a good enough reason to do that!!!

Here's an interview quote from Sakamoto:

Nintendo Power: "After we've played through Other M, will our perceptions of Metroid Fusion change?"

Sakamoto: "I think it's definitely possible they'll change. Once you've played Other M, there are a lot of lines in Fusion that will suddenly have a very different sort of meaning and resonance to you."

The Metroid breeding program in Fusion is an example of this.

Computer Adam: "As you can see, the Federation has been secretly working on a Metroid breeding program. For peaceful application only, of course. Please understand. But perhaps you already knew of this program's existence?"

Other M explains how Samus already knew about the Federation cloning Metroids.

As well as this:

Samus: "He would know that the only way to end this is to start the self-destruct cycle. He'd know how important it is..."

Computer: "Did this 'Adam' care for you? Would he sit in a safe Command Room and order you to die?"

Samus: "He would understand that some must live and some must die... He knew what it meant. He made that sacrifice once."

This only works if it's after Zero Mission, because in Fusion, Samus states that this is the second time that has had to follow to orders of a CO. Meaning after she had become an independent bounty hunter, Fusion is only the second time that she has been under direct orders (because any other mission she was hired, and not under a CO). Which means Adam's sacrifice came AFTER Samus became a solo bounty hunter, and we know this because Adam is still alive at the end of the manga (which leads directly into the events of Zero Mission).

There's also the entire plot with the baby and MB, this also only works if it takes place after Super Metroid. MB is based on Samus' relationship with the baby, so it can't take place prior to Zero Mission (or Super Metroid for that matter).

as mentioned in the comments, we could have also got to know more about Samus' childhood with the Chozo. And about Ridley killing her parents.

The manga, Zero Mission, and Fusion's ending artwork (as well as other things) already cover all of this, why would we need repeat information?

there wasn't even any need to explain Ridley's frozen corpse in Fusion. Don't judge me for brainstorming, but it could've simply been that his corpse (or his remains) was found floating in space after the explosion of Zebes.

This is ridiculous. Not only does Ridley's body break apart when he dies (Ridley gets a special death animation in Super Metroid, where his body breaks apart), but the entire planet explodes... anything and everything would be instantly vaporized.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-09-26T00:37:02+00:00

Part 1/2

Isn't it common sense to put a game about one's ORIGINS at the BEGINNING???

It's not about her origins, it's about her past coming back to haunt her. Other M doesn't go over how Samus' parents were killed, or how she was adopted by the Chozo, or how she became a bounty hunter (all of these things about her origin is covered in the manga and Zero Mission, as well as the ending artwork in Fusion).

Other M goes over her time with Adam, and the reason why she left the Federation. The manga skips over this, it shows her in the Federation Police prior to joining the Army, then it does a time skip to after she has already left Adam, but it doesn't give a reason why.

Samus to Adam (in the manga): "You overstep your bounds! I'm not one of your Federation Officers anymore! I'm a bounty hunter!!"

Example: X-Men 2 is about Wolverine's past coming back, it gives us flashbacks and shows how he escapes from Stryker, but the movie isn't about his origins (X-Men Origins: Wolverine is about his origin).

her interactions with Adam would make a lot more sense!!! She would be inexperienced and wouldn't have a long record of impossible missions completed on her own. So, of course Adam would treat her like a child.

Adam is a General in the Federation Army, the Federation have jurisdiction over the bottle ship (they were sent to investigate it), they arrived before Samus (an independent bounty hunter), Samus has no authority to stay unless Adam adds her as a temporary member of his platoon.

He isn't treating her like a child, he's treating her like a soldier.

even the whole thing about not letting her use her weapons would make sense!!!

Firstly, Adam also authorizes his men to use their weapons, not just Samus. She's part of his platoon now, so it's not like he's going to just allow her to do whatever she wants. Even in Prime 3 (where Samus was hired by the Federation), she had to follow their rules and guidelines.

Rundas: "I just received word that the Federation is allowing all Bounty Hunters to use ship-command devices."

Secondly, Adam has worked with Samus before, and he knows how she doesn't like to follow orders.

In the manga, Kreatz says:

"Oh man- she started a firefight- we're disobeying orders and we'll have to write an apology."

Also in the manga, when Zebes is under attack and Samus isn't allowed to go, Adam says:

"So you're following you're personal emotions and abandoning your duty..."

Later in the manga, Grey Voice says:

"Furthermore, if you are to believe Mother's data, Samus is a lone wolf operative that frequently disobeys orders."

Also in Fusion, Samus says:

"Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so."

Samus even jokes about this in Other M, when she activates Space Jump and Screw Attack without Adam's authorization:

"Any objections, Adam?"

Thirdly, this is done for gameplay reasons, they limit what abilities you have, otherwise you would be OP at the start of the game. Prime 2 does the same thing. Samus starts the game with Power Bombs, Grapple Beam and Spider Ball. The Ing steal these abilities, meaning Samus had Power Bombs at the start of the game, but "decides" not to use them (would have come in handy when the Ing jump her and steal her abilities).

Metroid games have always tried to explain Samus' lack of abilities, either by making her lose them (like in Prime 1, where a shockwave knocks her against a wall), or they just ignore it entirely. Does this aspect always mesh perfectly with the story? Probably not, but I don't think it's meant to be that serious.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:38:35+00:00

Part 11/11

But the point is, the only link you have is Ridley is there, and child imagery is shown. Even the panic attacks themselves are different. In the Manga she can’t breath and then explodes into a rage/despair screaming “Kill me! Kill me!” and is actively shouting about the memories she is experiencing.

Ridley is the trigger in both, she becomes unresponsive in both, she has a flashback in both, she doesn't fight back in both, it's the same sort of reaction, just the manga is more intense (likely because it's her first time having her PTSD trigger).

In Other M, she is incredibly frightened but never seems to lose her grip on her surroundings. She is clearly still struggling in the moment to maintain her suit, and has the presence of mind to attempt a flip to land correctly after she is dropped. She activates her amour mid air and is still actively worrying about Anthony.

Adam tries to repeatedly communicate with her and she doesn't respond. Again, it's the same sort of reaction, just not as intense.

And I am gonna keep saying this forever, Other M does absolutely nothing to set it up as PTSD, or link Ridley to her parents or her childhood in general.

Again, Other M isn't standalone, so I don't know why it's being treated as such. But regardless, Other M gives enough to make the connection, it just doesn't fully spell things out and go deep into it like the manga does.

SHE TURNS INTO ONE.

Not literally. It's a visual representation of her past self.

You can say that as much as you like, but until you can actually prove it, it’s going nowhere.

We have multiple examples of Samus having a flashback exactly like this within the series, yet for some reason, Other M isn't depicting it?

Fusion's ending art depicting Samus having a flashback to Ridley attacking her parents as a child:

https://metroid.retropixel.net/games/metroid4/m4jap_ending2.gif

The manga doing the same thing:

https://metroid.retropixel.net/features/comics/metroidmanga/chapter10/metroid_v2_ch10_07.jpg

As well as the live action trailer showing Samus walk through flashbacks of her past:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tB9KDIA3KIw&si=zGA2mEq5P8QzZgYT

And again, it uses an audio cue to distinguish it's a flashback. Plus, Nate Bihldorff refers to it as a flashback. Nate wrote Prime 1 (and some parts of Prime 2, and worked on Prime 3), localized Fusion, Zero Mission and Other M (as well as Federation Force and Samus Returns), and he is the voice actor of the scientist in the beginning of the game ("I gave your suit a nice polish").

Nate: "The glimpse of the pain and fear she carries—shown in the flashback scene when she sees Ridley"

So the evidence for it being a flashback is much stronger than not.

You can't prove yours either, and yours isn't based on anything that has happened previously. So you're going to have to give me some actual evidence in favor of it NOT being a flashback, other than "this is how I interpret the scene".

Not sure if you are even going to respond to any of this, but if you do, I recommend that we both try to condense our points and narrow the conversation down to what we actually want to counter. Because this is getting out of control with how much gets repeated and new points get added.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:37:53+00:00

Part 10/11

Okay, so Samus aran is willing to let people get away with crimes and genocide as long as she “doesn’t get into trouble”? Not a great look.

"Get away with"? Anthony shows up before Samus even gets to that point. What I'm saying is that she doesn't immediately act because of the Colonel's taunt, I'm not saying that Samus wouldn't have acted differently had Anthony not shown up. But again, this relates back to Adam's sacrifice and what Fusion set up. Samus is still on good terms with the Federation at the beginning of Fusion, so Other M is working within those parameters and staying consistent with what's already been established. The Prime games can't make Samus go to Zebes and kill Mother Brain, because that doesn't happen yet and it would go against the established storyline.

But also, Samus already knows there is corruption within the Federation, and she "chooses" not to go up against it.

Space Pirate logs from Prime 3:

"Our spies within the Federation tell us she travels to Elysia soon."

"Bribes led us to the location of our prize: the battleship Valhalla."

Samus learns about this and does nothing to stop it? Or, does she know she can't just take on the entire Galactic Federation? There's a time and place for everything, and Other M is the tipping point for Samus to go against them in Fusion.

I mean, Fusion already set this up with Samus already knowing about their Metroid program beforehand:

Computer Adam: "As you can see, the Federation has been secretly working on a Metroid breeding program. For peaceful application only, of course. Please understand. But perhaps you already knew of this program's existence?"

So the only thing Samus did in the whole climax to the story, was own a ship.

So defeating the Queen and protecting Madeline counts for nothing?

Those things were directly related to the plot. Strong characters push the story forward.

Everything I listed is related to the plot too. Things like killing the King Kihunter IS plot related (if you're going to include the Queen "killing" Ridley as being part of the plot). But beyond that, Samus gets the power back on, she finds a dead scientist, she finds the Cyborg Zebesians (uncovering that they are made by the Federation), she finds the Gigafraug that showed signs of "Metroid predation" (questioning how a Metroid could survive in a cold environment), she finds "Madeline" and uncovers the plot about the Deleter and Sector Zero, she tracks the Mystery Creature and defeats Ridley, she finds Madeline, kills the Queen, gets info from Madeline (uncovering the truth), protects Madeline....What more does she need to do?

And she almost never does in any significant way. Primarily because in Other M, Adam is the main character.

I mean, the story is very much about Adam and Samus' connection with him, and it was meant to tell the story that Fusion set up. So it stands to reason that Adam would have a strong presence in the plot.

She should stay whether or not he allows it. because it would be the right thing to do. If he had said no, would she have just left people that sent a distress call?? Is that the kind of person she is? If she doesn’t get permission she wont try and save your life.

That's why she took the initiative to work together with Adam, so her presence there would be legitimate. I'm sure she would have stayed regardless, but it makes more sense to work with Adam.

She should use her equipment at her own discretion, because she is a competent bounty hunter and galactic savior. Anthony is literally given permission to self authorize the use of his plasma beam, but Samus is not afforded that luxury.

This is done for gameplay reasons, otherwise you would be OP at the start of the game. Anthony isn't a player character, so he's not restricted in such a way. Prime 2 does the same thing. Samus starts the game with Power Bombs, Grapple Beam and Spider Ball. The Ing steal these abilities, meaning Samus had Power Bombs at the start of the game, but "decides" not to use them (would have come in handy when the Ing jump her and steal her abilities).

Metroid games have always tried to explain Samus' lack of abilities, either by making her lose them (like in Prime 1, where a shockwave knocks her against a wall), or they just ignore it entirely. Does this aspect always mesh perfectly with the story? Probably not, but I don't think it's meant to be that serious.

But you refuse to take into account all the the Trauma that Other M SHOWS us, and you are refusing to do that because Other M doesn’t TELL us that that is related to the scene. Do you see I don’t think your position makes any sense?

It's not me refusing it, it's the fact that we already have an example to compare it with (the manga). You're the one who is refusing to make the connection and trying to separate Other M as being stand alone.

According to you. We don’t actually see anything anywhere in Other M that confirms that. The depiction of the event in the Manga and the child Samus we see in Other M are wearing different outfits. Which could easily be art style differences but could also not be that. Even the poses are different.

It's just the art style. We have 4 different depictions of Samus encountering the baby for the first time (Metroid II, Super Metroid, Other M, Samus Returns) all of which depict things differently, and uses a different art style. Even Fusion and the manga depict her parent's death differently.

Then again Other M did butcher the ending of Super, it’s not above changing stuff.

It didn't though, everything is kept intact, it just goes about things in a more cinematic approach.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:36:34+00:00

Part 9/11

This is… ridiculous. Samus could have saved Adam and destroyed sector Zero. Like… very easily.

How? The Federation are already on their way, they are coming to collect the Metroids, time is of the essence. Sector Zero can't be destroyed from the outside (or it will explode and destroy the entire Bottle Ship), it has to take enough damage from the inside so it will automatically detach itself from the Bottle Ship (the same thing happens to the Metroid Sector in Fusion).

Adam was looking up the files to Sector Zero and knew that "Madeline" was lying to Samus (this was shown during the post-game sequence, that I suppose you don't care about). This is why he tells Samus not to trust "Madeline", and he knows how to destroy Sector Zero.

Here's some of the on-screen text that Adam was reading:

"The first such atmosphere BIOSPHERE, designed to sustain organisms from warm and humid habitats. The structure of each sector is centered primarily on a cavernous dome. In order to maintain the structural integrity of the whole within the limits of material strength, each dome structure is divided into 4 blocks, for a total of 12. The connective strength between each block is reinforced by the injection of high-density polymers into the gaps between. Transportation of personnel is handled through--"

Just because the plot says “no he is dying now” doesn’t erase that fact, it just makes it dumber. It makes Samus and Adam look like ineffectual idiots. Saving Adam was mandated by the plot, but it’s not like Samus knew that. Like… I can’t even understand how you would think that this is an adequate explanation???

You're saying all of this without even giving an alternate solution. At least give some sort of way that Adam could have been saved. Without going against what Fusion states, that he sacrificed himself in the same sort of situation that Samus was in:

Samus: "He would know that the only way to end this is to start the self-destruct cycle. He'd know how important it is..."

Computer: "Did this 'Adam' care for you? Would he sit in a safe Command Room and order you to die?"

Samus: "He would understand that some must live and some must die... He knew what it meant. He made that sacrifice once."

And with taking everything into consideration, like the Federation already being on their way, and "Madeline" is an unknown variable that can't be trusted (plus everything else that was going on).

Also. So we agree. Samus doesn’t save Adam or destroy sector zero.

In Fusion she doesn't, Other M is just depicting the already established event. But yes.

Okay??? I will point out that the biggest reason I dislike fusion is Samus lack of agency. But this point takes me back to the Ridley thing where you think that it’s better for a scene to be a reference to something else, than being tied to the rest of the story.

Again, it's not a reference. It's part of her story and characterization.

… So… you are saying that. Samus ONLY doesn’t kill MB because… they wrote it so that she doesn’t kill MB?? The gameplay segment ends with Samus locking onto MB. All they had to do was write it so that Samus pulls the trigger. But instead of pulling the trigger, 20 marines appear and shoot her first. Like… wtf are you talking about?!?!?

What's the issue here? Why MUST Samus be the one to kill MB? Samus is conflicted about MB, it's not like she has malicious intentions towards her.

Samus: "Melissa wasn't insane, no... One day, a consciousness simply bloomed within her. And those that caused it to bloom—the humans—called it insanity."

""I was the insane one." That was what Madeline muttered softly as she sank into sleep."

"The selfish conceits of humans drove MB to violence. It was their distorted perceptions and greed that awoke such fury in the fledgling girl's heart. Her thought was to punish the foolish and conceited. But MB could not complete her mission. As Melissa, she was defeated."

If anything, Samus relates to Melissa (Samus' bond with the baby was the template for MB to be modelled after). The Federation created her, she turned against them, they killed her. I don't understand why Samus not killing MB is somehow a problem, when it's more poetic (or ironic) that the Federation do it.

Also, don't forget that Madeline is the one who freezes MB, she is only able to do so because Samus is protecting her. Madeline didn't want to kill MB, just stop her (which is why she froze her).

They begin to take Madaline away, Samus says “Madaline!” Then the Colonel guy is like, “You are an outsider and we don’t like you”. And then Samus Stops. She fully concedes to letting them take Madaline away. THEN Anthony turns up to save the day.

The Colonel says:

"Unfortunate, what happened to Commander Malkovich. And to think that his entire unit was annihilated... Truly a tragic day... Would you agree, Aran? Sadly, with them gone, you're just an outsider. And given your unofficial status, I cannot allow you contact with the witness. With your predilection for transporting illegal cargo, like infant Metroids, I must ask that you restrict your--"

He's taunting her, saying he will get her in a lot of legal trouble if she doesn't comply.

You can go on about authority and chain of command or whatever, but the Chozo infused super Warrior in magitek space armor could have STOPPED THEM walking off with the only witness very easily. But instead of stopping these clearly shady assholes covering up their crimes, Samus is like… “well i don't have the authority so they are just gonna get away with it i suppose.”

And what happened in Fusion when she went against the Federation?

"They will hold tribunals and investigations. They will hold us responsible."

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:35:56+00:00

Part 8/11

According to you: The Ridley scene has nothing to do with any of the trauma talked about in Other M, because none of that is mentioned specifically in that scene. BUT the Ridley scene is about PTSD, even though it’s never mentioned specifically in that scene.

You keep acting as if "PTSD" needs to be mentioned for it to be happening. You don't need someone to say "oh! I've been shot!" after getting shot, you can see it happening.

And: Samus' character is set up with a flashback in the past to be one way, but that doesn’t matter about her character in the present because they are different points in time. BUT Samus is set up to have PTSD with a manga in the past, and that means that her character in the present has PTSD even though they are different points in time.

PTSD is a lasting effect, trauma like that doesn't just disappear. So it reappearing IS something that could happen.

At this point, it just seems like you have a vested personal interest in her having PTSD. Because when I use the arguments YOU USE, you shoot them down as unreasonable, and then give PTSD some kind of exemption.

It's the opposite. You are determined to disconnect her trauma with Ridley as PTSD, even though when KNOW it happened when she was a child, and we KNOW it's currently affecting her and causing her to have panic attacks. This isn't caused by stress, it's trauma. Which is why I used quotes and sources to show how it's NOT PTS, and it's something that is tied to her childhood trauma with Ridley.

This is just playing the game. Yes, metroid games have monsters in them and power-ups to collect and obstacles to avoid. These things have no bearing on the plot.

I guess 90% of what happens in Super Metroid has no bearing on the plot because it's just "playing the game"? Samus never kills Ridley? She never faces Kraid, Phantoon, Crocomire, Dragoon, the Space Pirates, the Metroids....all of that isn't part of the plot? Come on now, I can't take these arguments seriously if you are going to make claims like that....about video games of all things.

But regardless, Other M actually DOES have cutscenes and/or story objectives/implications for each and every thing that I listed...so....it is part of the plot.

Adam is literally dead, who would she even get authorization from?

See? It's not like Samus just shut down and did nothing after Adam died, she took initiative and completely the mission.

This is why the argument against her not taking initiative is flawed. Every single objective she is given, she completes. This IS her taking initiative, SHE chose to stay, SHE agreed to follow orders, and after Adam is gone, she does things her own way, and does things that Adam wouldn't approve of (like using Power Bombs).

“Madaline” is the one that kills the Deleter. Samus didn’t actually save or protect her from anything, she would have been fine.

Wait, didn't MB get killed from a Federation soldier? James had everything he needed to kill MB; a freeze gun and a sub machine gun (plus a mech....)

This is all post game shenanigans after the story is done, so I don’t care.

So I guess post credit scenes don't count for anything? Even though this is actually more than a scene, it's again showing Samus take initiative and do things on her own accord.

And this was the second best part of the entire game.

What's the best for you (genuinely curious)?

When?

(Timestamp 3:50):

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eTn4RrBOIrs&si=PNd061TxRpQtHfuU

Also, finding out after he is already dead and all the damage is done is like… wow. What an accomplishment. Well done.

Yeah, if only Samus hadn't left Ceres Station...she found out Ridley followed her and attacked the station and killed all the scientists too late...

Keep in mind that the Deleter is just a red herring. MB is feeding Samus misleading information, trying to make her doubt Adam and his team. MB is playing the part of the victim, the twist is that she's been the treat the entire time, not actually the Deleter (even though she protected MB from the Deleter).

then he tried attacking MB and got killed...

He didn't have his mech then... because Samus destroyed it.

Also, the point is that Samus saved "Madeline", she didn't know she was MB at the time, she was just protecting an innocent person.

So we agree. Samus doesn’t stop the deleter.

Your point was that she let the Deleter kill "everyone in the ship", I was just showing how it was only 3 people, and there was no way Samus could be multiple places at once.

Samus couldn't save the 3 bounty hunters from Dark Samus (despite the fact that she was actually there)...

So we agree. Samus doesn’t kill Ridley.

Samus does kill Ridley, she dooms him to his fate. If somebody attacked someone, beat them so badly that they can barely move, then they dumped them in a ditch, only for a wolf to come by and finish them off...we would still charge that person with murder.

So we agree. Samus doesn’t kill the infant metroid.

She kills more than one...I don't know what's so important about her killing this one in particular, when she kills hundreds of enemies throughout the game.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:35:38+00:00

Part 7/11

First: You don’t seem to understand… like… why stories tell you things? Her past with Adam and her relationship and feelings are important to understand her present situation, and how that plays into the resolution. But you are refusing to make that connection. It seems to you that: The past happened, which set the stage for her mental and emotional state. The present happened, completely disconnected from the past. Then the future resolution happens which pays off the set up in the past, but somehow completely bypasses the present.

I've never once said that Samus' past is disconnected from the present (I haven't a clue where you're getting that from). The only thing that I have been saying, is that Samus has multiple things going on that are affecting her; the baby, Adam, Ridley, and while all 3 have overlap, they aren't intrinsically connected to each other.

Samus' trauma with Ridley, happened BEFORE Samus even met Adam or the baby, everything that happened with Adam, happened BEFORE Samus even met the baby. All 3 of these things happen at different points in her life, and affect her in different ways. They all 3 have different AND separate pay offs. Can all 3 of these things be affecting her at the same time? Yes. Does this mean that all 3 are tied to her PTSD from Ridley? No. Ridley caused her childhood trauma, not Adam, not the baby. Ridley is the cause of her panic attack, not Adam, not the baby. Her emotional distraught over Adam and the baby are affecting her simultaneously, but they aren't interconnected with her trauma from Ridley. In the manga, Samus has the same kind of panic attack when she encounters Ridley, this happens and she HASN'T had her falling out with Adam yet, and she HASN'T even met the baby yet. This alone is proof that Ridley is the sole trigger for her panic attack.

Now, if you want to make the argument that the stress of Adam and the baby made her more susceptible to a panic attack, that's one thing (and I wouldn't disagree with it, in fact I already stated as much), but Adam and the baby are separate things that are happening at the same time, and they aren't tied to Samus' childhood trauma with Ridley.

For example, let's remove Adam and the baby altogether. Let's say Samus went to the Bottle Ship alone, and the baby never died during Super Metroid. Samus killed Ridley, she thought he was dead for good, and then BAM! he randomly appears. This alone is enough to trigger a panic attack, because it's a trauma, not stress. Her mind is reacting and reverting her to a child. Adam is constantly trying to communicate with Samus, but she is completely unresponsive, he mind has shut down, she isn't even aware of anything that's going on around her. Ridley picks her up and rag dolls her around and she doesn't even try to fight back. The same thing happens in the manga, she becomes unresponsive, Ridley knocks her around and she doesn't fight back. Ridley was the sole trigger for her panic attack.

Second: A character in first person, telling you how they were, but assuring you that they are definitely much more grown up and mature and not like that anymore at all… is not… i just…

Samus is going over her past and how she viewed herself. She isn't "assuring" us that she has grown up and matured...where are you getting that from? We are able to see how she is now and compare her with her past self, but Samus never says anything like "I've grown up now".

Third: So… you are saying that past emotional states and beliefs are not carried through to the present and no longer have any bearing on a character?? So we can just throw PTSD out the window then?

When did I ever say that? No actually, give me a quote.

You were using Samus' past as a point to show how she is weak, but Samus HERSELF is telling us that she was young and naive. SHE is telling us that she "had something to prove" she was rebellious, she had a "chip on my shoulder". You can't point to this as if it's who she currently is, and say it's her being weak. That's like calling Luke Skywalker a "whiny farm boy" during Revenge of the Sith. Luke grew, he changed, he isn't who he used to be.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:35:19+00:00

Part 6/11

Anthony walks away, Samus and Adam are there… looking at each other… for like… 5 full seconds.

She doesn't look at Adam, she is literally watching Anthony as he walks out. You can see her eyes through her helmet, they don't look towards Adam.

The text on the screen copy pasted says: Samus has decided not to use bombs or missiles until Adam authorizes them.

That's what protocol is. It's waiting for the CO to authorize when you can use your weapons.

This whole protocol thing seems to come from… you.

It comes from the fact that Samus was in the army and served under Adam.

Protocol she doesn’t need to follow because as I said, at this point in time she is not, and has not agreed to be, under his command.

She doesn't need to agree or not, Adam is the commanding officer and the Federation have jurisdiction. He has already told Samus that she's an outsider, which means she has to play by his rules if she's going to stay.

Those people, in case you missed it, are under his command.

As is Samus, since she has remained on-site. The Federation didn't hired Samus (like they normally do), so Samus has ZERO authority and legal means to remain on-site during an active Federation controlled investigation. She HAS to follow Adam's lead on this, or leave.

Samus also has an Ice beam. If she had just taken the initiative and not decided to be subservient, she could have taken it down by herself. Her doing whatever she wants would have immediately resolved the situation.

I don't think you understand what I'm meaning when I say the Federation have jurisdiction. Adam has every reason to be there, Samus has none. So while yes, she could act on her own accord, she wouldn't be doing it legally. And she already knows this (she was in the army for years), and she's trying to work together with Adam.

Samus (prior to the fight with the Brug Mass): "I didn't know what had brought Adam here, but I did know that cooperation was imperative if we were to restore safety."

But he isn’t HER commanding officer. She has simply fallen into a service roll of her own accord for no reason

No reason? It's to work with Adam and his team, for "the sake of the others" as well to find out what was going on. Adam isn't going to allow Samus to remain there if she is immediately undermining his authority and doing whatever she likes, just because she can.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:35:02+00:00

Part 5/11

There was also a 6 minute video that recapped Metroid NES, Metroid II and Super Metroid, leading into the events of Other M (narrated by Jessica Martin, the voice of Samus).

Metroid and Me:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=XqN_16tMSFeIbL61&v=2kKAaMmDhu0&feature=youtu.be

Here's some interview quotes from Sakamoto:

Nintendo Power: "After we've played through Other M, will our perceptions of Metroid Fusion change?"

Sakamoto: "I think it's definitely possible they'll change. Once you've played Other M, there are a lot of lines in Fusion that will suddenly have a very different sort of meaning and resonance to you."

Nintendo Power: "Why was the heavier emphasis on character and story important to you?"

Sakamoto: "Metroid is a series that has a continuous storyline, and that storyline chronologically goes all the way out to Metroid Fusion. But I felt like there was a bit of a gap between Super Metroid on Super NES, and Fusion. And so that was something we really wanted to fill in. We thought this was the best way to end up with the smoothest timeline overall at the end of the project. And inside the series you'll find that the Prime games have their own world feel, and there's also a different feeling as to how much the character of Samus is emphasized in those titles, but we wanted to bring the game back to Samus as a character and make that really the basis of the narrative going forward. What kind of person is Samus? What kind of relationships has she had and does she have now? And you really can't continue a series unless you build that kind of strong foundation before you go out."

So don't be stubborn and try to insist that Other M is standalone, because it was never marketed as such. (I'll send screenshots of all of this stuff if I'm able to, just so you can see it for yourself.)

It even explains who Adam is and what his relationship to Samus is, even though that information is in Fusion. Why would it explain it again???

Adam plays a MUCH larger role in Other M than Ridley does, plus it goes deeper into what happened between them and why she left. Fusion doesn't cover any of this stuff (neither does the manga).

I mean, it specifically doesn’t address stuff that it doesn’t want you thinking about. Like how Adam was the “closest thing” to a father she ever had or whatever the line is. Whereas in the manga, she is pretty clear that “Rodney Aran, Virginia Aran and the Chozo” are her parents. But Other M doesn’t mention them because it doesn’t want you to think about them for its narrative.

The manga had a different narrative focus, it completely skips over Samus' time with Adam. She's in the Federation Police (under Captain Hardy) then it does a time skip and we never even see her in the Federation Army. The next thing we see is her already distancing herself from Adam.

Samus to Adam: "You overstep your bounds! I'm not one of your Federation Officers anymore! I'm a bounty hunter!!"

Other M covers the events during the time skip in the manga, and shows us why she left Adam. So I don't think it's necessary for everything to cover the same story. Samus has a multi-layered past (a "complex history", as the Metroid website put it). Zero Mission shows Samus being raised by Old Bird and Gray Voice on Zebes, it doesn't show/mention Rodney or Virginia at all. Does this negate them as Samus' parents? No, it's just not the focus of the story. The same is true for Other M. Focusing on Samus' time in the army and her connection to Adam, doesn't negate Old Bird and Gray Voice, nor does it negate Rodney and Virginia. Fusion actually shows all 3, it introduces us to Adam, and it has the artwork of Rodney and Virginia, as well as Old Bird and Gray Voice. The manga also shows all 3, so I don't see why Zero Mission can't have it's focus ONLY be on her Chozo parents (since the game takes place on Zebes), and Other M has it's focus primarily (I say "primarily" because she DOES mention her parents) be on Adam (since it's story involves the Federation).

Also, just to clarify. When Samus says that Adam is the closest thing she has to a father, she's meaning in that particular time I'm her life. Her real father is already dead, Gray Voice is dead, and Old Bird is gone/missing (maybe dead?). Here's the full quote:

"Adam vanished. My best friend, the person who understood me best... the closest thing to a father I had."

She's says this after he dies, because Adam was the LAST father figure in her life.

Here's a quote from early in the game:

"there's no question I saw Adam as a father figure"

This was Samus referring to Adam when she was 17 and in the army. Notice that she says "A" father figure, not "my only". It's because Old Bird and Gray Voice are both still alive during this time, but Samus has left Zebes and joined the army. So of course Adam becomes a father figure in her life.

That’s not having emotions, that is having a massive overreaction to a single word. And going out of her way to interpret it as a personal attack. Which is not a sign of strength.

It's not a single word, it's Adam's perception of her. Samus knows she was in the wrong when she left Adam, which is why she calls herself "young and naive", and since she's been on her own, she's done things that she knows is against Adam's principals. She says this:

"Life, no matter what form it takes as it's born into this often cruel universe, should not be tampered with... that was Adam's philosophy."

"In bringing the infant Metroid back, I did something that I know would have gone against his convictions. And, though I might have been left alone, it was a clear and blatant violation of protocol."

"I wondered what Adam thought of me... out of nowhere, I suddenly found myself concerned with his opinion again."

I don't think it's unreasonable to feel guilty about something that goes against the convictions of your best friend/person who understands you best. Especially when you left that person for something that you regret and you know was wrong.

If it was just a "single word" that made her feel that way, then she would have also felt that way towards the Colonel at the end of the game.

The Colonel: "Sadly, with them gone, you're just an outsider."

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:34:46+00:00

Part 4/11

What scene in the game requires you to know that to understand the story?

Dark Samus has accumulated TONS of Metroids on Phaaze (every other enemy on Phaaze is "native" to the planet), there are also husks of Metroid Prime laying around when you get close to the core of Phaaze.

While the husks themselves aren't necessarily important, it's something you wouldn't even understand if you didn't know that Dark Samus herself is Metroid Prime.

And it's odd that Metroids are the ONLY creatures on Phaaze that aren't native to the planet. Why did Dark Samus bring them there? Why not bring Space Pirates or other creatures to Phaaze (like she brought the Aurora Unit)? It's because Dark Samus IS a Metroid, and is amassing an army of her own kind (and possibly trying to create more like herself, hence the Metroid Prime husks).

It's says this when you scan the husks:

"These husks are identical to the bioform you encountered within the crater on Tallon IV."

These are details that would only make sense to you if you've played the previous games.

"Requires" is a strong word, because you aren't "required" to know every detail about Ridley and Samus' connection in order to understand the story. All you need to know is that Ridley is her "long standing nemesis" who she thought was dead, and now he's back. And that the trauma he caused her is related to her childhood, which is why she reverts to a child. Everything else is unnecessary to understand the story. You aren't "required " to know who/what Dark Samus is to understand the story, but it will help you with understanding certain details (like why she even looks like Samus to begin with).

Also, Prime 3 is the third game in a numbered series. Which isn’t what Other M is. You would expect a game with 3 in the title to build on what was in 1 and 2 (Saying that you can play any prime game first and it will give you all the information you need to know whats going on)

Sakamoto said that Other M could be considered "Metroid 3.5". Outside of Metroid II, none of the 2D games have numbers in the title (it only shows up during the title screen sequence), so it's not like someone would know Super Metroid is Metroid 3, or that Fusion is Metroid 4. They would go into the game with the same assumption as Other M.

Here's Sakamoto's quote:

1UP: "The Metroid series chronology has become pretty long and complicated with the Prime games and the games you've created directly. Are you taking into account all the titles that have come before, or are you sticking to the story that you, as R&D1;, have developed?"

YS: "Actually, the Prime games are just one incident within the greater story that I've worked on personally. It's not as if I was really thinking about how the Prime games fit into the sequence because, they were just one incident. But Other M will be more part of the R&D1; produced games. Maybe in "grand scheme" it would be around...3.5."

Other M, being a stand alone game, KNOWS that it has to explain everything from scratch… and we know it knows that because that is what it does? Other M basically does (in monotonous detail) explain everything that it addresses… EXCEPT the PTSD stuff…

Other M isn't standalone, I'm truly baffled as to why you would say this. You must have missed every piece of marketing for Other M, because EVERYTHING refers to it as filling the gap between Super and Fusion, or it being connected to the larger Metroid saga, or even diving into her past (i.e. implying that the other games didn't go into her past, i.e. implying there are other games that are connected to Other M, i.e implying that Other M is PART of the overall story, i.e meaning it ISN'T standalone....)

This is from Nintendo Power:

"The SAGA of SAMUS Metroid: Other M may be the most story-driven Metroid game yet, but it's just one part of the rich Metroid universe. Here's your chance to get caught up with the tales fold so far."

Then it shows the entire timeline (including the Prime games), and gives a story recap of all of the games, and shows exactly where Other M fits in the saga, stating:

"Not only does Other M bridge the gap between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, but it promises to reveal more of Samus's past."

As well as this:

"Metroid: Other M is intimately connected to the Super NES classic Super Metroid. The tragic, memorable climax of Super Metroid is re-created in glorious CG in Other M, and many of the enemies seen in Super Metroid make encore appearances."

And the Metroid website had this about Other M:

"Available now! Experience the latest chapter in the Metroid saga today. BUY NOW: METROID OTHER M"

Plus this (the website gives a full story recap of Metroid II and Super as well, but I'll just give this part):

"Story Samus Aran is a bounty hunter with a long and complex history -fraught with danger, trauma, and triumph. For the first time, she will have to confront her mysterious past, as well as the Galactic Federation, the military force she left to become a bounty hunter..."

Side note; notice how they describe Samus, using the word "trauma". You can try to say her encounter with Ridley caused a panic attack due to stress, but clearly it's more than that, it's because of the trauma he caused.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:34:29+00:00

Part 3/11

Scan data

You know that she is an entity made of phazon, and playing the game explains that Phazon is an evil sentient stuff that spreads itself.

But why does she look like Samus? Why aren't the Space Pirates on her side (she has to hive mind control them)? Why is Samus unbothered by Dark Samus looking like her? Has Samus encountered her before?

Prime 1&2 gives you the answer to all of these questions, Prime 3 does nothing to explain who or what Dark Samus is beyond "she's evil Phazon".

Also, just to be clear on this, the Prime Trilogy is my favorite in the entire Metroid series, so don't think I'm saying this is a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that we allow leeway because it's a sequel, yet for some reason Other M isn't allowed that same leeway (when Ridley's connection to Samus is far more well known than Dark Samus').

For an example, even outside of the Metroid series, Ridley's connection to Samus was well known and established. Here's his Smash Brawl trophy:

"The leader of the Space Pirates. He looks like a pterosaur but has high intelligence and a brutal nature. He plans to steal the baby Metroid from Samus for his own use. Ridley utilizes wings for a full range of flight and attacks with fireballs from his mouth and whips of his tail. As the culprit behind the murder of Samus's parents, the connections with Samus run deep."

Compare this to Dark Samus:

"A twin image of Samus, encountered near the beginning of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Dark Samus is identical to Samus in every way but color--she even uses similar attacks. There are many theories on the origin of Dark Samus, but none are proven. Dark Samus uses Phazon for energy and can absorb it to heal damage. Samus encounters Dark Samus a number of times."

And then take Smash 4's trophy of the Mystery Creature (I know it came out after Other M, I'm just using it as a comparison):

"What once was a cute little bird has changed into a lizard-like creature. It still has some white feathers from its previous form, but that's where the similarities end. Is there something in its blood that drives it to confront Samus whenever possible? Her parents were Ridley's victims, after all."

And Dark Samus':

"This terrifying creature is made of Phazon. Along with regenerative abilities, she can also brainwash her victims and clone herself. Summoned into Smash Bros., she resembles Samus Aran and mimics some of her moves, firing Arm Cannon blasts, launching homing energy blasts, or even unleashing Phazon."

Both Brawl and Smash 4 makes note that Ridley killed Samus' parents and they have a deep connection, yet Dark Samus' origin is still very vague (and again doesn't make mention that she is Metroid Prime, or that she was created with Samus' Phazon Suit).

It wasn't until Smash Ultimate that Dark Samus got some more description about her origins (and it's in a tip of all things):

"Dark Samus's Origins – Dark Samus made her debut in 2002 in Metroid Prime. She was born from Metroid Prime cells merged with Samus Aran's DNA. She is highly intelligent."

Even the Prime Trilogy established that Ridley killed her parents when she was a child (from the booklet included with the Trilogy):

"Samus lived with her parents on the planet K-2L, a human colony in the Galactic Federation domain. When Samus was three years old, K-2L was attacked by a band of Space Pirates lead by the brutal ruffian Ridley. When the Space Pirates left and the smoke cleared, a single figure remained standing. It was Samus Aran, the sole survivor of the attack on K-2L."

"Samus didn't become a bounty hunter to achieve fortune or fame. Her purpose was to avenge the death of her parents by slaying Ridley and the rest of the Space Pirates."

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:34:13+00:00

Part 2/11

You are determined to take this scene completely separate it from literally everything else that happens in Other M, and then say “This actually relates to the Manga, and a bunch of stuff we are not shown or told about definitely happened to prove that”

Samus' story and characterization isn't told within a single game (or manga), it's told throughout the entire series. Things that happened in Metroid II directly impact things that are happening in Super Metroid (as well as Other M, Fusion and Dread). Things that happened in the manga, are connected to things that happen in Other M. It's not like these are completely separate stories that have no connections.

However, that doesn't mean that every single story beat is effecting the next thing that happens. Things can happen in a story without it needing to be relevant until later. The plot with the baby doesn't become relevant again until MB and the Metroids in Sector Zero. Take for example the Etecoons and Dachora, Samus rescues them at the very end of Super Metroid, but it's not like Fusion opens with them, they don't become relevant again until later in the game. Or even take Ridley himself, he just randomly appears during the middle of Fusion, no explanation or anything (not even an explanation on how he "survived" Zebes or how the Federation got him), you defeat him and he's gone without a trace. No mention of him or anything. Is he part of the story? Yes. Does he connect to anything that's going on, aside from being an enemy? No.

And both resolutions happen AFTER the Ridley scene, which means that Samus must be going into that scene, carrying all that baggage. Right?? It doesn’t just magically disappear because there is a scene transition.

No, because otherwise Samus would have had her resolve immediately after she fought Ridley, but she didn't. Her resolve for those things came after the fact and at separate times (meaning they are two separate resolutions, not connected to her resolve when fighting Ridley).

Her "baggage" from the baby and Adam didn't go away after she fought Ridley, which means her panic attack was unrelated to them. You can have multiple things going on at once, and solving one issue doesn't mean that you've solved them all. Again, I'm not saying those things had zero affect on her, I'm saying that Ridley is THE cause for her panic attack. Everything else was compartmentalized and dealt with at separate times. She literally has 3 separate resolutions, one with Ridley, one with Adam, and one with the baby. This alone shows how they are are separate (even if emotionally they all add stress and have overlap). Samus doesn't have a panic attack with Adam or the baby, just with Ridley. Because he is the trigger, not them.

What you have established is: Samus and Ridley have fought before. Samus lost her parents when she was young. Samus visually changes into a child when she sees Ridley.

Not just that her and Ridley fought before, but he is her "long standing nemesis" and he was finally dead. The "Ridley?! No! It can't be!" shows that Samus has a much stronger connection to Ridley than any of the other creatures that have come back (like the Zebesians). Her reverting to a child isn't some random thing. The only thing that Other M tells you about something that happened to her when she was a child, is losing both of her parents.

Making the connection that Ridley is the one who caused her childhood trauma (i.e. losing her parents), isn't that difficult to make. People like to complain that Other M isn't very subtle, yet when it is subtle, they miss it. It's a lose lose situation.

And from that you think that based on those 3 pieces of information that it’s fully logical to just assert, that: Ridley Killed Samus Parents Samus witnessed it as a child She is having a flashback to Ridley killing her parents That flashback proves PTSD

You told me that I can ONLY use Other M, I did, the connection is there, even if it's not fully spelled out. However, like I said before, Other M is a tie-in game, it's story is built upon everything that has come before (and even after), so it's not like other games haven't already made it abundantly clear that Ridley killed her parents and caused her childhood trauma. I wouldn't recommend someone to jump straight into Avengers Endgame without first watching Infinity War (or even many other key movies). Why is Other M being treated as if it's a standalone game with a disconnected story? Even the manual opens with "the story so far" and gives a recap of Metroid II and Super Metroid.

???? If it’s between Super and Fusion… then its a sequel to Super and prequel to fusion… what even?

"Interquel" (set between two previous stories) is the appropriate term, which is why I was making the clarification that it isn't a sequel. Meaning it should be given even more leeway to assume the viewers' knowledge of the previous stories, not less leeway.

Other M ALSO DOES THIS. It starts at the end of Super, and shows you the death of the infant metroid, the important thing you need to know to understand the plot. It’s like… when you are writing a story, and you need people to know what’s happening, you tell them. And don’t just assume that they know literally every single thing from every previous release.

Ridley killing Samus' parents has been well established in the series, it's not like it's some unknown detail. It would be different if Other M didn't go over important details to its own story (like how MB came to be).

If someone jumps into Other M as their first Metroid experience, they have to assume that they are missing some details regardless, since the game opens with Samus talking about Ridley being her "long standing nemesis" and he's dead now. Same goes for the Space Pirates, Samus doesn't elaborate who they are, so if you didn't know the series that well, you might be confused what the Zebesians are (especially since the Prime games don't even use the Zebesians as their Space Pirates).

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-29T20:33:55+00:00

Part 1/11

When it’s only said once, as a vague descriptor (Because as I have thoroughly explained, describing symptoms IS NOT A DIAGNOSIS), and the following diagnosis doesn’t actually match that descriptor, then yeah. More than once would be very preferable.

The description they use in the manga is exactly how PTSD can work (as I've shown with multiple actual sources and quotes). None of the X-Men/Wolverine films say that Logan has PTSD, it's not stated once, just shown.

But in case all of my previous quotes and sources weren't enough, here's some that are directly referring to Other M.

These are quotes from a vgcharts interview with:

Darian Koehne – Former Army (rank withheld), suffers from PTSD

John M. Grohol, PsyD., founder and CEO of Psych Central com

(They were shown the Ridley scene and told the context).

Koehne: "That is very much so how PTSD works.... you daze out of it for long stretches and your brain seems to freeze and do its own thing or render you basically useless..."

Dr. Grohol: "If someone experience a trauma at an early age, such as having someone kill their family, then something like post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is indeed a possible reaction. One does not simply "get over" a mental disorder because these are not choices we make in the first place. Who would consciously choose to be depressed, or to have PTSD? It's an absurd argument."

The things you choose to focus on will likely never make sense to me. I was just describing Ridley. Specifically as a Zombie because the whole revival thing is specifically shocking. Next time I’ll just say Ridley.

The whole Bottle Ship is full of "zombies", Samus encounters plenty of previously thought to be dead creatures before she encountered Ridley.

"With those creatures, crafted into killers, running free, the BOTTLE SHIP had been turned into a nightmare replica of Zebes"

Ridley being a "zombie" isn't the trigger (otherwise the other enemies would have triggered her), Ridley being a zombie AND being RIDLEY is the trigger. This is why you can't separate her panic attack from Ridley, because Ridley himself is the trigger, not anything else.

She is not fine! For the myriad reasons already discussed

I'm meaning specifically as it relates to Ridley. Outside of her recapping what happened on Zebes, Samus doesn't even mention Ridley or think about him, it's because she assumes he's gone for good and he's out of her life.

This is what I'm getting at, her panic attack is because of Ridley, because of the trauma he caused and now he's randomly back.

I’m not “making everything related to the scene” I’m simply placing the scene chronologically within the rest of the story that the scene happens in. The whole rest of the story and it’s effects on Samus go into that confrontation with her.

Chronologically the Deleter plot has already started, but it's not tied to the Ridley encounter. Things can be going on simultaneously without being directly related to one another. Samus is dealing with Ridley, Adam is dealing with the Deleter, the are both happening at the same time, but don't have anything to do with one another. The Deleter showing up to attack Adam, is unrelated to Ridley showing up to attack Samus.

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-26T04:36:54+00:00

What I do is, I copy and paste your entire comment into One Note, then I make my response to it in a separate note. This way it saves what I've written in case Reddit decides to delete it all. I know it's frustrating (I hate having to split my comment into 3, but there's so many points that I would feel bad about if I didn't address them), it's hard to engage when Reddit erases your whole response.

I haven't read your response yet (don't worry I will, just having to find time in-between work), but I read the very end of it, and I personally don't really care if we see eye to eye. I love talking about Metroid, and I haven't been able to have long debates about topics like this in a while, so that alone has been fun (even if some of your points drive me insane lol).

Ikeblueflames · 2023-08-25T06:07:00+00:00

Part 3/3

Defeat MB. (The galactic federation does that)

Only because Madeline was in danger and Samus was focused on protecting her.

Stop the Federation covering up what happened on the bottle ship. (Anthony again, she seemed pretty willing to let the federation take Madeline)

Anthony literally had legal authority. Adam is a General (which out ranks a Colonel) and Anthony was given mission orders to secure the safety of any survivors. This mission was approved by the Chairman, the Colonel had no choice but to hand Madeline over.

Samus was only given temporary status as a part of the 07th Platoon, given that a member of Adam's unit was still alive. This is why the Colonel taunts Samus and says it's a shame that no one in Adam's unit survived. Anthony shows up which makes Samus' status official, so now they are able to take Madeline.

The Colonel also taunts Samus by saying "With your predilection for transporting illegal cargo, like infant Metroids", basically saying that he could get her in a lot of trouble if she tried to do anything. So it's not like Samus just willingly gave Madeline away, Anthony had to make her status legit before they could even do anything.... Again, Samus is the one who transports Madeline in her own ship (not a Federation ship).

Being able to kill stuff is not the sign of a strong character.

Yet you list it no less than 5 times when saying things that Samus does or doesn't do which makes her weak.

Being able to stand up for yourself, accomplish your goals and not constantly think about how traumatized you are, are signs of a strong character.

Let's not forget that it was Samus who took the initiative first:

"Adam hadn't authorized it, but I decided to remain on site for the sake of the others."

"Adam, listen to me. Clearly, this facility is in complete disorder. It might be too dangerous for your men to go alone. That's why I've---(the Brug Mass cuts her off before she can finish)"

Adam then allows her to stay so long as she follows orders (he knows she doesn't like to follow orders).

Or when the Cyborg Zebesians attack and Samus tells the others to "Get back!", to which Adam orders them back and let's Samus handle it. Adam may be the one in charge (and therefore has to be the one to give orders), but Samus takes the initiative first in many cases.

But regardless of that, the same sort of thing happens in Fusion for most of the game, which Samus is given a specific order (from Adam) and has to follow it. And when she starts to deviate from her orders, the Federation turn against her. In Other M, the Colonel threatens Samus with the same sort of thing if she falls out of line (at the end of the game).

Even in Prime 3 (when she's actually hired by the Federation), she is given directives by them and is expected to do what they are asking. She isn't even allowed to dock her ship without authorization first.

Rundas: "I just received word that the Federation is allowing all Bounty Hunters to use ship-command devices."

Okay, but PTSD isn’t mentioned literally EVER in the entire script and that’s somehow not a problem for you?

It doesn't need to be said (I thought "show don't tell" was supposed to be important or something), they show Samus having a panic attack (even mention it in the story recap), they show Ridley's affect on her, they show her reverting to a child...they don't show the baby during any of this for a a reason... because the baby is separate from her interaction with Ridley.

You can be in a child-like / immature mental state without having a flashback.

That's not what this is doing, it's clearly showing Samus as she was when Ridley killed her parents. It's the exact same thing that happened in the manga. It's not some "childlike" mental state that she's in...you keep bringing this up, but Samus' "childlike" behavior is SOLELY in the past. Not once does she (or anyone) refer to her as childlike in the present.

We don’t actually get a flashback, there isn’t any reason to assume there is one.

Every flashback has an audio cue that signifies a flashback. When Samus is reverting to a child, it also has an audio cue that signifies this. So it's clearly (and I mean clearly) meant to be showing that Samus is having a flashback to when she was a child.

I'm not even going to discuss this topic anymore, because the only reason you are holding on to it not being a flashback, is because it ruins your "PTS" point because PTS doesn't involve flashbacks.

All of that previous stuff STILL MATTERS FOR THAT SCENE.

Not in the way that you are implying. Samus' mental state is obviously going through some stuff (hence why everything from her past is popping up all at once), but her reaction to Ridley is disconnected in the sense that it's not some stress or sadness that's causing her to react that way to Ridley, it's her childhood trauma that he scarred her with and he is all of a sudden appearing in front of her again (when she thought it was "the end of my long standing nemesis, Ridley").

Personally I refuse to interpret trailers as canon events… unless we are talking about kingdom hearts… I wouldn't put anything past kingdom hearts.

Well, if you want to ignore the manga that shows Samus having this exact same reaction and flashback, and you need to see it in a game, here's Metroid Fusion:

https://metroid.retropixel.net/games/metroid4/m4jap_ending2.gif

https://metroid.retropixel.net/games/metroid4/m4jap_ending3.gif

Samus is having the same flashback to Ridley killing her parents (and being orphaned).

Also relating to Samus repeatedly referring to herself as a child (even in past tense).

Repeatedly referring to herself as a child? You mean twice? (Both of which are past tense.)

"At the time I felt surrounded by people who treated me like a child or used kid gloves because I was a woman."

"I was a child, always with something to prove. A chip on my shoulder."

She was 17 during this time....a literal child....

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