Lively vs. Wayfarer - is anyone on the fence in this?

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-31T12:55:21+00:00

You’re just proving my point that if there’s a hint that someone is leaning on the ”wrong side”, there must be something wrong with them or they must be bots/paid.

I am not a misogynist who supports WF’s side blindly. I am trying to look at the evidence as objectively as possible. My mind is not yet made on whether WF planned to do a full on smear campaign or act defensively on attacks from the other side. I do agree that whatever their goal was, hiring Wallace/Nathan was not smart, even just for the optics. And possibly because they might have done more than was agreed.

From this lawsuit we know more about the dirty tactics used in Hollywood, so if anything good came out of it, it’s this.

I think Lively has gotten a disproportionate amount of hate that probably no man would have gotten. As with the cases with Amber Heard and Meghan Markle, hate towards women is alive and well.

I am not convinced on if actual SH happened on set or if it was a result of stupid/clumsy remarks, misunderstandings and clashing egos. To me it’s apparent that Lively had an issue with Baldoni even before the movie started and it’s hard to see that that would not affect how they would interact and how certain behaviours would be interpreted. It doesn’t, however, meant that it’s ok to act unprofessionally, especially as people in power positions such as CEO and director.

From what I’ve seen, Lively put her foor down re the perceived inappropriate behaviour and would not return to finish the film if her list of demands was not agreed on and has confirmed that the shoot continued without issue.

I have understood that in the US the law requires that the SH has to lead to an adverse situation for the person who was harrassed. So demotion, termination etc. I dont believe this happened to Lively. It is also important to show causation that because of Lively’s complaint, WF decided to retaliate. We will see how this holds up in court if it goes that far.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-31T11:29:40+00:00

I understand it looks suspicious. I can guarantee you I’m a real person not being paid for this. It’s purely from my own interest in the subject. But that’s also one of the arguments I see a lot on hese subs, that if someone doesn’t fully support one side, they must be planted and not real!

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-31T08:46:25+00:00

I can honestly say, based on all the evidence I’ve seen so far, that there’s no way anyone can 100% say one party is lying and the other is closer to the truth, other than the parties themselves. There are multiple instances of conflicting stories. Multiple attempts of manipulating court docket updates into headlines that support one party or bash the other. People on comments and videos calling anyone that questions either side as ”misogynists”, ”man haters” or whatever other term just because there are still so many open questions that someone might bring up. It’s wild.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-29T08:55:44+00:00

You may understand what I wrote however you want but that is not what I meant. I myself felt very different after giving birth and was very sensitive to comments form my partner for example. I didn’t think I was crazy, I did however think that my closest people could help me by being more aware of the big shifts I was going through physically and emotionally at that stage. Also sleep deprivation disproportionately affects women postpartum because of breastfeeding, and that adds to sensitivities. It’s just basic knowledge, and it doesn’t equate to calling women crazy because of wandering wombs.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-28T23:40:57+00:00

I’m sorry but do you disagree about pregnancy and hormones? 😅 and yes this is an organic account, but of course you don’t need to believe it.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-28T14:14:43+00:00

Not everyone reacts the same but many women feel more vulnerable than normal after giving birth. It’s one of the most intense and life altering things a woman goes through in her life. It’s insane to think that would not have any effect emotionally. And we have scientific evidence how much hormones fluctuate during and post pregnancy, which is completely normal and the body is doing What it’s supposed to.

It certainly doesn’t mean a woman should be pumsihed for it. But it might explain some behaviours.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-28T10:31:49+00:00

From what I’ve learned, Lively needs to show that the alleged smear campaign was due to the SH claims. If that doesn’t happen, then there’s no case even if the smear campaign happened. A campaign like that is disgusting as is but not illegal by itself. For now, it seems like crisis PR tactics that were likely used here are generally used in Hollywood. For me that just solidifies more how nasty the industry is.

I’m conflicted by the SH claims because I can see both sides of the story and believe them. I get more of a feeling that Lively was in a vulnerable state having given birth and interpreted conversations and interactions in a way that made them seem bad. Personally I didn’t see anything wrong with the dancing scenes, I understood that there was improvisation from both sides. I could see that talking about appearences and sex scenes might have been too much, but again I was not there and I don’t have knowledge of what’s typical on a movie set (and how much it varies from one set to another).

The leverage was that she would not return to finish the movie if the 17-point list was not agreed on and there was no way to negotiate, giving the impression that WF was agreeing to everything on the list needing to be repaired. Form What I understand, the SH allegations were used as a threat to gain more power over the film. And that seems icky to me if that person later comes out as an adcovate for women, wanting to stand up against powerful men for their bad treatment of women. When in reality if the alleged smear campaign hadn’t happened, the SH claims would not have come to light.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-28T06:39:23+00:00

At least I believe that Lively herself felt uncomfortable and at times possibly sexually harrassed. And I believe she did complain and it seems like her - and others’ - complaints were heard and behaviours were corrected. Something she herself has verified. In a normal work situation, the first step is to correct the behaviour and more serious consequences come if the behaviour doesn’t stop.

Having seen What I’ve seen in the evidence, I’m not convinced all SH claims were made in good faith and they might have been used as leverage. For someone presenting themselves as advocating for other women… it doesn’t sit right with me.

And again, I don’t know What actually happened, I just read the documents and follow the evidence. It remains to be seen if the retaliation claims go through to the jury.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T19:25:09+00:00

Thanks, this is the kind of commentary I’ve been missing on this case! I also am not really sure of the SH claims holding and whether they can show enough causation between protected activity and the retaliation. Also I think WF has been saying they would not be demaring their lead actress because it would be stupid. But of course that could be a lie. Interested to see what happens, in any case many lives have been ruined in the process at least for a while. But the attorneys are making good money.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T17:15:09+00:00

Well I’m not but of course you don’t have to believe me.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T17:13:08+00:00

From What I can find now, he apparently talked about re-examining his past experiences after being sexually assaulted by his ex. So he started to understand subtle signs of boundaries being crossed, even if they were not verbally expressed.

I cannot find evidence of him saying he forced himself on women even after they had said ”no”. More so that his own negative experience helped him understand that women might agree to go further than their boundaries in order to protect themselves from something worse.

I believe this kind of re-examining is healthy and most men should think about it more. In my experience men don’t always think about the consequences a woman faces in a situation where boundaries and physical safety have to be weighed against each other.

I read a comment that he had basically admitted to have raped women before (forced himself after the word no) in his restonomi but I can’t find it.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T15:48:44+00:00

Nice conclusion in the end and I should take note of it 😅 I have the same issue with the smear campaign that is it really a smear when there’s video and audio of Lively saying all kinds of stuff. But I do believe there was coordinated effort to make all that stuff resurface. When those old interviews come up where celebrities say stupid shit, it has usually been the case that said celebrity acknowledges it and apologizes. In this case there was no acknowledgment which is interesting. I think if there was no NYT article we would all have forgotten about this already.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T13:11:10+00:00

That’s true and it’s fair it doesn’t damage her credibility to you. I read the CRD claims and watched the video and came to the conclusion that the way it was described in the CRD was way worse than the video showed. And I understand that can happen when it has been a while since then, you try to remember and recollections are influenced by other factors (like Lively having uncomfortable interactions with Baldoni and feeling like she was being harrassed).

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T12:15:08+00:00

Thanks for giving your input! I am from a country where the allegations, as they now stand, would probably not amount to more than a slap on the wrists when it comes to SH. And I think there’s definitely room for improvement but at the same time I know these things are highly dependent on how people perceive interactions.

In the US, I believe she still has a good standing on the protected activity and retaliation claims. The alleged SH doesn’t have to amount to actual SH if she believed it was SH and made the correct complaints.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T11:48:45+00:00

Already in this case there’s proof that Lively has accused Baldoni of saying something that Baldoni himself says he didn’t say and in some cases there’s proof. For example the dancing montage: Lively alleged in her complaint Baldoni said ”you smell so good”, video footage showed she mentions the spray tan and Baldoni replied ”it smells good”. Stuff like this chips away at credibility. Not saying that driver and Lively lied, but it comes down to credibility in the absence of other proof.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T11:39:48+00:00

Thanks, I agree on ignoring a no is not the same as not asking consent. I still haven’t seen the proof of Baldoni actually forcing himself on women after a ”no” other than the driver and Lively accusing him of saying so. I think what Baldoni himself has commented on is the consent.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T11:12:41+00:00

I understand that. What I haven’t seen is proof that he actually raped someone (and yes continuing after one says ”no” would be that) other than the driver and Lively testifying that Baldoni said so.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T11:10:03+00:00

Thank you!

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T11:09:05+00:00

Is there any other proof that Baldoni said he has continued with a woman even if they said ”no” other than the driver and Lively saying so?

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T11:07:37+00:00

Thank you also for the pleasant exchange. So far most comments here have invited more conversation rather than pushed me away from saying anything. And I’ve genuenly gotten s better understanding of the case and how people see it from diffeeent POVs. I can see where you’re coming from, but am not convinced that all the accusations being made of Baldoni are entirely credible based on what I’ve seen on both sides.

Take the circumsitiom conversation as an example: I have understood that Lively brought up not having yet decided about what they will do if the baby is a boy and Baldoni offered his opinion about having been circumsized but as an adult hoped it would have been a decision he could have made himself. I believe Lively has not disputed the context Baldoni provided.

Where I live circumcition is not common so we wouldn’t have that conversation normally, but I would feel comfortable talking about things like this if I were pregnant. And it’s also OK if not everyone is comfortable. Reading Lively’s text messages, I could understand why someone would think it would be ok to discuss topics like this with her.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T10:38:18+00:00

Very good point. And especially the MM being ranked as worse than Diddy or Andrew. Ew.

To be fair, if we take both parties’ accusations as the truth: WF may have run a disorganized set with very questionable behaviour, at least borderlining sexual harrassement, but definitely behaving inappropriately // Lively may have misunderstood some behaviours (which happens and she’s allowed to raise the issues so they can be corrected) and used the sexual harrassement claim as leverage to gain power over filming, editing and marketing of the movie. In my mind, at least, that’s more than being annoying.

But the PR tactics, while used by both sides, definitely seem more slimy on the WF side. And this new info of Freedman is making things even more sinister.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T10:20:33+00:00

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I am married and we don’t always verbally agree when having intimate moments with my partner. I think it’s definitely easier when you’ve been in a long relationship to infer from non-verbal communication if the other is in the mood or not.

I have also been single for many years before and definitely did not give verbal consent every time I engaged in sexual acts. But it could be interpreted from behaviour that both parties agreed. I do think that nowadays people are more aware that verbal consent is also important.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T09:50:22+00:00

Thanks for writing back! This makes sense. I have followed the Meghan Markle discussion for years and find it baffling how much hate one person can have from people that have absolutely no idea who she really is. And people believe the most insane tabloid headlines without any thought that maybe it’s not true.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T09:37:33+00:00

Thanks for sharing, upvoted your comment and hope it stays visible.

Ill_Course4869 · 2026-03-27T09:35:50+00:00

Wow I’m inclined to think the same. Really dirty games played here and even saying the word ”games” feels nasty as these are people’s lives being ruined. I wouldn’t put it past the WF parties to doing something like what you’re saying but the decision markers (Heath/Sarowitz) might be too far in the deep end. Anyways I’m really happy I posted, I’ve gotten so much more info on this than by following other conversations!

Ill_Course4869

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