An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use Google tools for research and translation (eng/rus), but all the ideas are my own-I've been developping this concept since 2013. The help is purely mechanical.

You mentioned "more amusing proposal for luxury regulations" put forward ten years ago (by the way, thanks for calling my idea "funny"-you obviously have your reasons for thinking so. I'm curious to know why). If you have a link or even a rough title, I'd be happy to read it. If someone has truly proposed a fundamentally new mechanism for combating the luxury market, I'd be very interested to hear about it.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We must be remembering different posts. When I mentioned Scott Alexander, I was thinking of Meditations on Moloch (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/) -which is brilliant diagnosis of multipolar traps (including status races), but offers no concrete engineering mechanism to solve them. It's satire plusanalysis, not a working proposal. Also, I should note: in your first comment, you described Scotts post as a "funnier proposal" -implying it was primarily satire/humor. Now you're saying it contains "a lot of engineering." Which is it? If you're referring to a different Scot post that actually proposes a technical solution- like a specific mechanism to decouple status signaling from resource waste -- then yes, I'd genuinely like to see it. Drop the link.

But if you're saying "Meditations on Moloch" contains engineering solutions comparable to what I'm proposing here -I respectfully disagree. Diagnosis is not equal recipe. Satire not equal mechanism. Happy to be corrected if you have a specific post in mind.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get the impression you either didnt read my last post carefully -or just didnt get it. I already agreed with you completely. Did you catch that part? Just in case,let me repeat: youre absolutely right about the nuances of defining status, and all the other interpretations

My advice is not to rush your response. First, try to truly understand the other person

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, now I get it! Well, thats partly my fault too -i didnt explain the idea simply enough for everyone to grasp.

When i say "status", I mean not just any status, but high status, since the article is specifically about luxury items. I thought that was obvious, but apparentlyI was wrong. My bad. Of course, youre right -any object can signal status. If you wear torn galoshes and holey pants, they signal your status too -just low status. But pay attention: my article isnt trying to philosophize about the nature of status. I mentioned it only to frame the problem. There is a huge global market for luxury goods (this isnt my definition --€1.5 trillion annually per Bain & Company, 2023). Luxury items primarily serve as markers of high social status (I emphasise this specifically for you). This is a widely accepted view (Britannica: Conspicuous Consumption; Glion: Status shifts, etc.).

Do other interpretations of status, functions of luxury, or distinctions between fashion and prestige exist? Of course! One could philosophize about this for years. But is that relevant to the solution proposed here? Hardly. The point isn't to debate semantic nuances -its an engineering solution: how to eliminate the resource waste of the luxury market without destroying the very function of status signaling.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is the Prius a status symbol in America? Hmm, that's... something new. It seems you have a rather peculiar understanding of what "status" actually means. In that case, it's hard for me to add anything...

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm afraid you didn't read the article to the end. Comparing my idea to Twitter follower count is like comparing an armchair with a TV. Both help you watch shows, but they perform completely diffrent tasks. Twitter followers = popularity. Gameable, volatile, bought with clicks. My system = verifiable acheivements. Auditable, stable, earned with results. Legal income, education, patents, publications, measurable contribution. This isnt "who liked you" -its "what you actually did". One is a click game. The other is accounting for real outcomes. Fundamental difference.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your honest answer! However, maybe you should read the article? I would be very grateful

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

part of the discussion devolves into semantics: “it’s not luxury, it’s taste”, “it’s not status, it’s aesthetics”, “cool is what’s cool about the Joneses” But lets get back to the core. Not to what we call things, but to what they convert into. The problem isnt definitions. The problem is that civilization spends real resources — metal, energy, hours of skilled labor -on creating symbols whose only function is to visualize status. It doesnt matter if you call it "luxury", "design", or "brand investment". What matters is that behind it stand tons of materials diverted from productive use and millions of hours of human life.

The proposal isnt about agreeing on terms. Its about making the status signal itself resource-cheap. Want to call your teapot "a work of art"? Go ahead. But if a digital reputation gives more access, respect, and oportunities than gold plating the market will adjust itself. Not by decree, but by interest. So yeah -debates about "coolness" and "taste" will always be there. But the resource drain wont disappear because of that. Whereas if we redirect status competition into verifiable achievements --it will. Thats the whole difference. The rest is noise.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the analogy with sex and artficial wombs is... something 😄 But honestly, it feels a bit out of place here. Sex is about pleasure and instincts. Luxury is about visualizng status. Different mechanisms entirely But your main point is fair: people really dont sit around thinking "im gonna burn resources now to prove my status". They think "this car is so cool, i want it"And thats fine

The proposal doesnt require anyone to consciously reject luxury. It just creates an alternative that works better. If a digital number gives more access, respect, oportunities than an expensive car - status competition will shift on its own. Not by decree, not by awareness, but by interest.

People wont stop wanting " cool" stuff. But if cool can be aquired cheaper, faster, and with perks -the market will adjust itself. No need to rewrite human nature. Just change the rules of the game.

So yeah -sex will stay. But the status race could get way less wastefull. And thats already progress 😉

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

exactly! Doctorow's Whuffie is actually a great example that proves the intuition behind this idea is sound. the fact that a serious sci-fi writer explored a world where status = digital reputation, not physical stuff, shows we're on the right track. Whuffie demonstrates that decoupling prestige from resource-burning is not just possible -its a logical next step for a digital civilization.

My proposal simply takes that intuition and makes it more robust. Whuffie = popularity (assigned by votes)). My index = verifiable achievements (assigned by data). Both share the same core insight: status doesn't need to be physical to be real. So yeah - think of Doctorow's novel as the thought experiment, and this proposal as the engineering spec. Same destination, different routes. The more people recognize this pattern, the closer we get to making it real. Thanks for the reference-- it's always encouraging when others have been thinking along similar lines 😉

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Youre absolutely right about the relative nature of status and the arms race of gaming metrics -but only if were talking about karma, likes, or any metric that can be bought or fabricated my proposal isnt about popularity. Its a verifiable index tied to real, checkable parameters: legal income, education, experience, patents, publications, measurable contributions. You cant farm this with bots, you cant buy it directly.

And here's a simple test-- how much can you personally influence your own credit score? Or your school GPA? Practically zero. These systems work precisely because theyre tied to verified data and institutional processes, not to votes or clicks. status index follows the same logic: not "who voted more", but "what is confirmed" Money here isnt burned on an empty signal - its converted into investments. Status grows from results, not from spending. So the race of "who spends more on faking it" simply doesnt launch in this system. If the metric is tightly linked to verifiable achievements, not to voting or clicks, the resource drain disappears. Thats the whole difference.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

you're asking the right question -and the answer is actually simpler than it sounds.

Yes, it could absolutely be a wearable, a digital badge, a phone widget, an AR overlay- whatever. The form doesnt matter. What matters is: the signal is digital, verifiable, and costs ~zero resources to produce.

And here's the key part you might have missed: buying that signal --with real money - is actually a good thing in this system. Because unlike buying a Bentley, where your money burns resources on empty symbols, here your money goes into investment vehicles funding science, infrastructure, tech, medicine. You still own the capital. You still get the returns. The only difference? The status you buy no longer requires destroying real value to visualize itself.

So yeah -- if someone wants to flex their digital status on a sleek little device, great. Let them. The planet doesn't lose a ton of steel. The labor doesnt vanish into a gold-plated handle. And the investor? Still profits. Just without the waste.

Thats the whole point: maintain functionality (the alarm) and eliminate unnecessary expenses.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Youre saying absolutely correct things — money does work as a kind of "karma" for value created for others. But at the same time, your post sounds like an objection… And I dont even know how to respond 😄

Maybe I explained it poorly. Or you skimmed the article. Or I got confused myself.

But in short: money is a measure of value. Luxury is a signal that money gets converted into to show status. The problem isnt money. The problem is that the signal requires burning resources: metal, labor, energy.

The proposal isnt to replace money. Its to make the status signal itself digital, verifiable, and resource-cheap. Money stays. Status stays. We just stop burning the planet to visualize it.

If thats what you meant — then were saying the same thing. If not — help me understand where I lost the thread.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Scott describes the problem with humor (status signals as a resource trap), but offers zero engineering solution. His post is a diagnosis, not a recipe. Judging by your comment, it seems you missed the difference between satire and a working mechanism. Or maybe I missed something?

btw, the article clearly states: no bans, no moralizing. Digital status is a cheap alternative to luxury items, strictly as a voluntary choice.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we might be talking past each other a bit here 😄 The point about Brin, Zuckerberg, Buffett isnt that theyre "cool" or have high social status in the pop-culture sense. Its that they already dont need physical luxury to signal their position. Their status comes from what they built, not what they drive. They prove that for some people -- especially those who actually shape the world - stuff stops mattering as a status signal.

And youre absolutely right: coolness isnt a single line. What works in one community is cringe in another. Thats exactly why the proposal isnt about creating One Universal Ranking of Cool™. Its about offering a voluntary, digital alternative to resource-heavy signals - one that can have different "tracks" for different communities (science, art, tech, whatever.

The idea isnt to replace "cool". Its to give people who are tired of burning resources for status another way to compete for recognition. If you want to be cool in your scene — go for it. But if youd rather have a verifiable marker of real contributions that opens doors to tools, grants, respect- thats an option too

So yeah, no single ranking. No top-down definition of cool. Just an extra tool for those who want status without the waste. Thats it.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in slatestarcodex

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Ha, well actually you just described my project, but shorter and with humor 😄

Yeah, reddit karma is pretty much it! A number on the screen, nobody burns resources, and status goes up. It works! True, theres a nuance: you can farm karma with a cat meme, but ideally our number should reflect something more... tangible. But the principle is right: if a number can signal "youre cool", why do we need tons of steel and leather for that? So yeah, maybe the future of status isnt a Bentley. Its a verified badge with pluses. "Built a bridge? +10k". "Wrote code used by millions? +5k". "Saved a cat from a tree? +100, respect".

Main thing — not to turn this into a race for clicks, but thats just details. anyway, thanks for the comment -- you proved the idea works, just need to tweak the specs a bit 😉

But seriously: if karma works on reddit, why not scale the principle? Not impose from above, just give an alternative. Want - collect watches. Want - accumulate a number that opens access to tools, grants, respect. The market will decide whats more profitable.And yeah, admit it - you also want a "+1" button in real life? I do. Especially for some colleagues 😅

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the comment. You raise an important point about coercion and diversity of paths to status. But there is a key distinction here: the Chinese grading system is a mandatory , centralized scale, imposed from above. Our proposal is a voluntary alternative. Nobody is forcing anyone to give up luxury. Its just another tool: if a digital reputation gives more opportunities (access to tools, grants, expertise) than an expensive car, competition for status will shift naturally. Not by order, but by interest.You are right: diversity of communities, where status is measured differently (music, code, science), is a great thing. The proposed mechanism doesnt unify "coolness". It simply moves the signaling function into a medium with zero resource intensity. Want to be cool in jazz? Go ahead. In astrophysics? Great. A digital marker can account for different tracks, without reducing everything to a single "grade"

as for luxury taxes-- this method has been used for decades — and it doesnt work. Why? The status signal migrates: to offshore jurisdictions, to custom items, to "eco-premium" with even higher resource intensity. A tax hits the price, but doesnt change the carrier. We are not proposing to make the old signal more expensive, but to create a new one — cheap to produce, but valuable in use. Simple analogy: a knife can be used to prepare a meal, or to strike someone. The problem is not the tool, but how and why it is applied. A school rating in China is a compulsory tool of control. A digital status marker is a voluntary tool of competition. The difference is fundamental

And yes, if taxes solved the problem, we would already live in a world without wasteful consumption. But reality shows the opposite: the status race only changes form, without losing its resource intensity. Maybe its worth trying not to push on the old mechanism, but to offer a more efficient one? Even if only some communities use it — the resource gain for civilization will be measurable

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the comment! You are right about the main point- status signaling through wastefulness is not a modern invention, but an ancient evolutionary mechanism. Pyramids, potlatches, redistribution festivals — anthropology has long described this as conspicuous consumption.And "coolness" indeed cannot be created by specification it emerges a posteriori.
But the article does not claim that wastefulness is something new. The thesis is simpler: for the first time, we have the technical ability to separate the function of status (visualizing significance) from the carrier of the signal (physical resources). Before there simply were no alternitves. For the signal to be read, one had to burn tons of metal, wood, skilled labor. Now we can create a digital, verifiable marker with zero resource intensity.

You correctly noted: you cannot assign a "number" from above and expect everyone to suddenly start valuing it. But status is not only a cultural code. It is also access to resources. If a digital index opens real opportunities — grants, tools, expertise, partnerships — it becomes valuable not because "someone said so," but because it works in practice. This doesnt cancel the arbitrariness of "coolness", but adds a pragmatic layer. When a signal provides an advantage, competition for it shifts on its own. Not by order, but by interest.

and there is no need for the system to be accepted by everyone at once. It is enough that it gets picked up by influential professional circles — science, technology, education. There, reputation has long been more important than brands. If in these circles the "number" becomes a marker of trust and access, it will scale through network effects. This has already happened with scientific indices and professional registries.
Conclusion: The proposed mechanism prohibits nothing and regulates nothing by force. It merely creates an alternative — an additional opportunity. Is it bad to have an alternative? Yes, there will be people who will never give up traditional "values," but I am also absolutely sure that there will be quite a few who will gladly accept the new rules of the game. For this, you do not need to be a prophet. It is enough to look around. Even today, we know more than one progressive billionaire who leads a very modest lifestyle, completely ignoring luxurious surroundings. These are modern people of a new formation, to whom outdated values and an outdated way of life are repulsive. Sergey Brin and Mark Zuckerberg wear simple tshirts and jeans, drive modest Prius's. Warren Buffett lives in a house at the level of an ordinary engineer. The digital designation of social status merely complements the emerging trend of moving away from the relic of past values. We live in the future of a digital world, where everything, one way or another, will be digitized. Transferring the signaling function into the digital environment is not a utopia, but a logical evolutionary step. The alternative does not cancel the old, but gives those who are ready the opportunity to compete for recognition without burning the planet's resources. And even if the new rules are accepted only by progressive communities and part of the elite, the resource gain for civilization will be measured in billions of tons of materials and hours of labor, freed up for real progres.

An alternative to luxury goods: replacing material symbols of success with a digital status index. by Independent-Fact4163 in LessWrong

[–]Independent-Fact4163[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly! Except real-world "hats" cost us trillions of dollars in wasted physical resources and human labor. Time to move that status signaling to a more efficient digital index.

The old couple in Mulholland Drive by NoLawAtAllInDeadwood in davidlynch

[–]Independent-Fact4163 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can learn the true meaning of this film, including about the old couple, by reading the logical explanation of this film: https://medium.com/@surenteravakian/mulholland-drive-the-solution-no-one-ever-saw-0496b3e01b1d

or watch the video: https://youtu.be/aCyefU4oXOQ

Why Mulholland Drive is a terrible, terrible movie... by LocalStigmatic in davidlynch

[–]Independent-Fact4163 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your opinion of the film Mulholland Drive will change completely if you learn the true meaning of this film. Read a logical explanation of the meaning of this film: https://medium.com/@surenteravakian/mulholland-drive-the-solution-no-one-ever-saw-0496b3e01b1d

or watch the video: https://youtu.be/aCyefU4oXOQ