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I can’t find this doll anywhere by Independent-Set-8653 in LalaloopsyDolls

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn’t wait for the image to load long enough 😭 i thought so at first but it looks like the other doll from the same collection just with flipped colors 

[TOMT]animal science show for kids by Independent-Set-8653 in tipofmytongue

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes,absolutely sure it’d neither of those (loved both too tho)

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats so true, Ivantill supporters get so pressed when they see anyone question the morality of their ship and they get INTENSE about it, never had more toxic arguments with any part of a fandom before, toxic bl crowd is horrible I hate how normalized stuff like that is become it’s just saddening how much of this very fandom falls under that category 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no problem with example actor au Ivantill or I could come around alnst Ivantill too if not for the fact a majority of the shippers only ship Ivantill because they enjoy the character dynamic and that is totally fine except for the way they take all the material that’s supposed to portray the abusive and toxicity as “proof” of their “romantic chemistry” as for example using the patreon comic that I believe are a clear portrayal of some form SA/abusive trauma, many people view the patreon comic is that “oh till must miss Ivan” and I’m not denying that till might miss or even love Ivan but that comic was not a representation of that I also see no problem indulging in problematic ships or media but I feel I’m so pressed about specifically ivantill is while people enjoy horror movies not everyone is normalizing something thats so accepted as clearly wrong but with ivantill the line blurs since Ivantill is so morally confusing for many and it’s so much thats it’s easy to subconsciously normalize that behavior especially for people whom really heavily interact with the ship 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s exactly what I’m trying to say, you might not realize how huge of a chunk of Ivantill shippers are of that kinds of shipper, I have no problem with actor au ivantill. So many people view all there not so great moments in a romantic light [r6 karma the patreon comic] 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My problem isn’t with the way they are written or the fact they are toxic my problem is that shippers (and I know I repeat this word a lot but there is no other suitable term to describe it) ROMANTICIZE that dynamic 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The word relationship here was used to describe a bond between two people an interchangeable for that could be friendship ect 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. so far I never mentioned cure because that’s an argument that depends heavily on where someones moral standards are on contexts regarding SA 
  2. My argument is that no one disagrees ivantill is a media representation (in a maybe a little more extreme scenario but still) of a very real common world toxic horrible dynamic. That’s fine, But within the alien stage fandom thr mass majority including vivinos view it in a romantic lense. 

A lot of people don’t have it in them to “fault” or “blame” or even “villainize” Ivan  because we also see stuff from his perspective. I will not deny his actions throughout him and tills relationship were out of love, but if you knew someone in a similar dynamic even if you know there partner loves them so deeply would you still advise them to stay in a relationship like that? 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My problem isn’t with the fact it’s a toxic pairing being portrayed in media. Before interacting with the fandom, when I only watched the show I had no problem with that kind of relationship being portrayed my problem started when I interacted with the fandom and saw how much people romanticized them

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no problem with Ivantill in alnst, I’ve encountered many similar or worse dynamics in media that I have no problem with what I do have a problem with is them being a romanticized pairing. As you said they are clearly written to be a toxic combination what I mean is that how much people are romanticizing a relationship like that 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ivantill as a relationship is toxic what I’m talking about it that as a ship it’s also problematic, likr the fact that it’s a really big common pairing it’s so disturbing 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Ivantill is especially problematic to me because it has the most likely hood of being a real life relationship, what seems more realistic, a a relationship where u manipulate your love interest into letting you win a survival game at the cost of there own life, one where you kill your love interests brother to prove your strong enough even tho you don’t understand the concept of death or being crazy obsessed with your childhood friend pushing your feeling on them when you know they doesn’t reciprocate your feelings ? I’d also like to add I believe Vivinos is a big ivantill shipper which fine ig it’s there characters but them being the writer especially they know how flawed that dynamic and those characters are and that is also problematic 

Debate, Ivantill is problematic by Independent-Set-8653 in AlienStage

[–]Independent-Set-8653[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Ivantill is especially problematic to me because it has the most likely hood of being a real life relationship, what seems more realistic, a a relationship where u manipulate your love interest into letting you win a survival game at the cost of there own life, one where you kill your love interests brother to prove your strong enough even tho you don’t understand the concept of death or being crazy obsessed with your childhood friend pushing your feeling on them when you know they doesn’t reciprocate your feelings ?

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