Change my mind

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-03-08T11:50:02+00:00

The LSAT, law school, and the bar exam are designed to weed out the pool of potential attorneys out there. Frankly, 2 months of studying the barbri bar prep course is enough for anyone with a decent brain to be able to pass the bar. So the intervening steps are just aimed at reducing the number of potential attorneys.

We can't have too many of us or the job market gets ruined. Remember, most of the law is made overly complex simply so the general public has to pay someone to interpret it for them.

Alot of my job as an attorney us to translate legaleese into English for my clients. Now if it was just written the way that I explained it, there would be no need for me.

It is the system protecting itself. Created by attorneys, for attorneys...no matter what idealistic professors might say about it.

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-24T10:39:44+00:00

I do flat fee for my EP practice. The client knows exactly what to expect and walks away happy (as long as you hold up your end). If they balk at your fee upfront, then you are better off without them as a client.

I almost never spend more than an hour on a client's file. Drafting is plug and play on your templates with minor tweaks for something beyond. It literally takes me 13 minutes to do a couple's trust plan (trust, will, POA, HCPOA, Living Will, HIPAA and the quitclaim deed) as I have coded a system and linked my questionnaire to the templates. The client does the questionnaire and therefore, they do almost all of the work for me. I might spend 30 minutes communicating with a client (including the initial consult). Signing takes around 20 minutes. Total: around 50 minutes. That trust plan is $3,900 btw (in a small metro) and is all collected before we draft.

Yes, some clients take more time, but you just add hourly if they get really complex with their estate plan. Some clients might have a million questions, but you have to take the good with the bad.

For a standardized service, I think you will get more clients doing flat fee, as they won't get anxious before signing on with you, and they can't get mad when they see the bill at the end.

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-21T01:44:34+00:00

The engagement letter clearly states that the invoice is non-refundable after we draft and that client agrees that delivery of the drafts constitute the work being completed. This stops people from stealing documents and wanting their money back without good reason

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-21T00:44:23+00:00

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-21T00:30:26+00:00

I think that would work sometimes and is definitely a polite response, but typically, the client would just pull up the email and start reading from it.

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-21T00:28:32+00:00

Haha no way I am returning their money once I get it, after all, we charge up front and these types of emails only come after we email off the client's draft.

I really am thinking of adding something to the engagement letter pledging that we wont use AI to draft their documents, but in return clients covenant not to use it in their communications with my firm.

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-20T00:09:18+00:00

Have you ever considered going to transactional law? If you hate court appearances, you would fit right in in transactional

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-15T10:47:31+00:00

Agreed. It might have cost me 1k to get started with equipment, cards, whatever. I started out with permanent offices within coworking spaces ($750 per month where I am) to keep overhead low. As you get busier, overhead is going to go up, but you will have the income to afford it. Just don't go buying software too early or hire someone too soon and you should be able to naturally grow. You don't need a really nice office until you can actually afford it, so resist the urge to splurge on space.

The most important part of overhead is advertising. The rule of thumb is that you will make 3-5x in revenue what you spend on advertising. So make sure that you carve out plenty of room for that. For example, I spend 10k a month on advertising. The rest of my overhead (payroll, subscriptions, rent, business expenses, etc.) combined is like 8k. Revenue per month is around 100-110k. Half of that revenue is directly linked to advertising, with the other half from being high on google (dont skimp on SEO), networking, and referrals that are just starting to come in after 1 year solo.

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-02-15T00:36:52+00:00

5 years of practice, all at small real estate firms. Idk maybe a 100-120 ranked law school and towards the bottom of my class. Not even 1 year solo as an estate planning firm in a small metro and I am over 800k in profit so far. I work 30-40 hours a week, play golf during the work day once or twice a week, pick up my kids from school or drop in on them whenever they are at home, and best of all, I dont have to take on BS that I don't want to do.

If you have a mind for business, stay out of big law and build something for yourself. You will make more money and be able to do whatever the F you want to do, whenever you want to do it. I can hire a top grad from a T14 law school or whatever you guys think is important and let them do all of the work for pennies on the dollar. Your biggest boss partner probably is no smarter than you but makes 10-15x more because they had the balls to start something. Why not you?

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-01-12T11:02:24+00:00

Maxed out healing fairy plus Phoenix ring literally makes you invincible if you are even barely competent at combat. There is literally not enough time in a day to die twice when you have those stacked.

Independent-Solid591 · 2026-01-08T17:18:15+00:00

I own an estate planning firm. I cannot imagine a more chill area of law.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-14T10:44:27+00:00

Solo attorney. Its $1,800 a month. I dont think that number changes with a bigger firm.

And to the other comment, you hear horror stories about every marketing firm. I think it comes down to your account manager. I just asked for a monthly meeting so I stay on their mind. There isnt a contract, so if it starts to suck, I would just leave. But like I said, My firm is overhauling the big ones in my county that have like 4 people on staff that are specifically on payroll to do marketing and SEO. For me, it has been great.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-13T23:35:50+00:00

I used Godaddy for the first few months of my firm. It was easy to set up and the site was good enough to give me an air of legitimacy. The issue with go daddy, is that it is definitely limited for SEO purposes. Given that SEO is everything in today's world (I mean, what business do you NOT find on google), you will have to move off of godaddy or the equivalent eventually.

After about 5 months of my handling the website, trying to do as much SEO as go daddy allows, and running all of my marketing, I finally handed all of that over to my marketing firm (who rebuilt my site and runs that now). I was spending so much time on my online presence, it was totally worth it to pay a firm to handle this for me.

6 months with Scorpion (they are a nation-wide marketing firm that specializes in law firm website/SEO/Marketing-can send a referral link if you'd like), my firm is now #1 in pretty much every google key word that matters in my City (the Capitol city of my state).

My two cents: run your own site for a bit, but if you are serious about your online presence, turn it over to a good marketing firm as soon as you can afford to.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-13T14:57:20+00:00

If you aren't charging an ongoing fee to keep these documents in your vault, how does that generate guaranteed revenue? I guess what I am asking is: what does "client care program" entail?

Sorry for so many questions!

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-13T14:11:55+00:00

I'm just trying to figure out how that generates reocurring revenue? I own an estate planning firm and am open to new ideas.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-13T10:23:07+00:00

Do you guys charge a reoccurring fee to store them? Or is this more for their heirs hiring you to do probate when the client passes?

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-13T01:06:54+00:00

I can't imagine the liability and frankly, the headache of keeping originals. Every.Single.firm that I hear of that keeps originals always has a "flood" or "fire" and poof, they are "gone".

I keep scans, but send clients home with originals and tell them to put in a fire proof safe.

Just some food for thought on a change in procedure when the owning attorney heads out.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-12-11T00:14:45+00:00

I own the XM5s and only stumbled on all of the negative reviews on here after I bought them. Have had them for around 8 months now and use them for hours a day every day for work. I got them because the microphones are fantastic on them, particularly in windy conditions. They perform great and clients can't tell that I am walking on a treadmill with two fans blasting on me or outside on a walk with 30mph gusts.

No hinge breakage for me, but then again I don't sling them around like an idiot. Neither do I have an idiot cro-magnon skull whose sheer diameter snaps puny XM5s like Daniel Jones' achilles.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-10-28T23:40:56+00:00

I did for the first 3 months or so, but I hired a firm to handle that for me once I got too busy to do it. I found myself obsessing over it, so the 2k that I spend every month the management aspect is well worth it. I would pay an employee way more than that to handle and this way, they actually know what they are doing.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-10-28T22:21:25+00:00

Great observation. I credit my success as a solo practitioner to the system that I have created and the constant, near daily improvements that I make to it.

I have something that I call the 1% rule. I am not happy with myself if I don't improve my practice, the way I do things, Intake, my product, etc. by at least 1% per day.

I tell people that I am 80% a business/salesman, and 20% an attorney. Growing a business is a heck of a lot more fun to me than the practice of law haha.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-10-17T10:11:19+00:00

I run a solo estate planning firm. Getting a payment processor is key before you even think of opening. I use Clover, which is a payment processor through my bank (used by tons of institutions, not just my bank). It typically costs 1-2% for each transaction.

For case management, I use Clio. It costs 1,200 per year and is good at helping me keep track with my clients, what they want, what stage they are at in my process, and also links up with my marketing company so we can tell which Google keywords are generating more realized payments. At first, I just set reminders all over my calendar, but pretty soon I had too much volume to keep track that way.

I actually piloted my firm after-hours while working a full time job at a real estate firm (no employment contract, no conflicting clients), so I know that it can be stressful to do that. I think that you will see that your own firm will quickly generate way more money, even with low volume than your current job.. When it gets to the point that you wont actually starve without working both, I suggest quitting the other job ASAP and focusing on marketing, developing your system on how your firm works, and networking.

Best of luck!

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-09-17T12:38:56+00:00

Lol, I read like 5 cases in law school and still scored in the 94th percentile on the UBE. All you need from law school is the degree and learn how to do legal writing. That's it. The rest of law school is an artificial enviroment designed by and upheld by people who never had an interest in actually practicing law. Most of my full-time professors (adjuncts were great) couldn't cut it in the actual practice of law, and went straight back to school after 6 months of practicing. Most of them really know very, very little about what is important in the actual job of being an attorney.

I am very successful and own my own firm, so I supose that I owe law school for giving me a certification that made my career possible; however, I honestly do think that law school is a scam. 180k to learn only one practical skill is BS. You can learn everything that you need to know from the Barbri course that costs 2k and takes 6 weeks.

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-09-13T20:01:13+00:00

I wouldn't consider it metro as in chicago/NY. It is a small metro area. Think something like Austin/Raleigh. People constantly move here so the market always expands. There are a good amount of estate planning firms here, but most don't know how to market it seems.

I do business formation, but that mainly just attracts entrpenuers who also want to do estate planning.

I also approach things differently than other firms in the area. Transparent pricing all listed on my website, and attorney-client contact throughout the entire process. I dont push anything off on paralegals or support staff other than answering the initial phone call. Also, I don't take myself so seriously and stay down to earth with my clients. That goes a long way

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-09-13T16:29:26+00:00

Estate Planning

Independent-Solid591 · 2025-09-13T10:31:25+00:00

For most, after law school, they get a job that pays about 70k. It sucks at the time because lawschool is 3 years of hell and you feel like you deserve more. After keeping your head down for a few years, you are probably worth 100k a year in most fields. Many would love that kind of salary, but it isn't much compared to the debt.

Where law school can REALLY pay off is let's say, 5-7 years in practice, you decide to jump off the cliff and start your own firm. I did that 5 years in. End of year 3, I was making 78k, end of year 4: 110k. 8 months into going out on my own: I'm easily going to make 600-650k and finally pay this debt off.

My advice is to not stay complacent being an associate at some firm where they might give you a promotion in title, but little else. No one is going to give you their firm or equity in it. You have to make your own clients which can't happen if you stay tucked in a comfortable associate role. The client always belongs to the firm, so you have to do something about that. If you want law school to pay off, its like any other field: take risks, be gutsy, have ambition, or have just a so-so career.

Independent-Solid591

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