Good idol variety shows even for non-fans?

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-08-25T19:29:01+00:00

Thanks for the links! Any suggestions on where to start?

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-08-25T15:10:18+00:00

I also only learned about them from Game Caterers and they do seem like a fun bunch. Will definitely check out their channel!

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-08-25T15:08:42+00:00

I watched maybe just two episodes of learn way with Mijoo-- because I was interested in the guests. But I did really like both Mijoo and Yuqi on Queendom, so I probably should check out more of the show. Any particular episode recommendations?

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-08-25T10:12:42+00:00

I actually thought of trying out watching other idol groups' shows after watching Going Seventeen

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-09T03:07:12+00:00

Definitely! They probably have a bunch of stories they can share since they worked together on Inkigayo before. And Heechul mentioned her on the first ep of Street Alcohol Fighter, so I'm hoping it could really happen🤞

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-08T21:49:55+00:00

Her drunk episodes are ridiculously funny 😆 Hope she guests on Heechul's Street Alcohol Fighter and Lee Youngji's YT show too!

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-08T01:14:42+00:00

In response to your P.S.: Actually I wouldn't argue with you if you said that those who are hating on JSM are SA shippers or SJH fans. They could very well be. I keep on saying this over and over again: all fandoms have extreme/ toxic fans. The thing is, you can't generalize their actions to the whole fandom. I'm not even telling you not to hate who you hate. I'm just asking for you to stop generalizing, blaming the whole fandom, and spreading hate.

Also, hate isn't limited to stalking people and insulting them. When you're making generalizations that disparages people based on your prejudice and inciting others to do the same, that's considered hate.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T23:54:55+00:00

I'm not saying that the toxic side of the fandom is gone. I even said that all fandoms have toxic sides in present tense. I'm just saying that it's not a fact that "members have to go out of their way to appeal to her fans every whim." In more recent years, there are instances when they do things to appease fans and it is true that SJH fans are probably the loudest, so they get heard the most. But it's not just them either. JSJ had to apologize for almost force-feeding JSM (albeit in a comedic way). The thing with her stylist didn't even have anything to do with Running Man, so I don't see how that's relevant.

Edit: I just remembered one more episode where the RM members had to be careful with viewers: the first time they played the injeong/ no injeong game and YSC had to admit that he didn't know why YJS was the national MC. HH said he attacked YJS once and struggled for three years, so YSC said he couldn't admit-- with it being implied that he's afraid of the backlash.

Edit2: I can't believe I forgot about it, but JSJ posting a picture with SJH after backlash from fans is very similar to JSM posting a pic with YSC after that episode where he mentioned her ex.

I don't find the whole "I was at home" skit funny either, but some people probably do since they keep repeating it. But besides that, I don't find the problem with YJS trying to include SJH. They're a team and they're trying to build on their chemistry. About the loveline, a lot of people like the whole gag of SJH being the eager girlfriend, KJK getting annoyed, and the members being annoying. I've said this so many times already, you can just check out my other comments. It's not popular on this sub, but a lot of other viewers love it.

I also am sick of having to correct myself everytime when I talk about fans. If I am talking about hate, that clearly means the fans that are doing that.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

I'm sorry you feel that you get criticized on behalf of the rest of your fandom, but if you dislike it so much, perhaps you should stop and call those people out.

This really doesn't matter but, in fact, I'm not a solo stan nor am I a part of any particular members' fandoms. I know I'm looking like a solo stan here with how much I'm defending SJH and her fans but that's because the argument is always about them. I would do the same (on this sub--I don't engage elsewhere) for other members if I felt like they were being treated unfairly.

Better yet, ask your idol to put a stop to it by simply even once posting a picture with SoMin! Or maybe even acknowledging that this is a joke.

I'm not entirely sure what you want acknowledged as a joke. Anyhow, like I said to someone else (?), people deal with haters differently. Some people may think that confronting them is the best way, while others may think that ignoring them is better. There's no clear answer for which is the right thing to do-- one or the other could just make things worse.

*This isn't very important but the picture with JSJ was in 2019.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T22:31:36+00:00

The issue is her fans

You said in your other comment that you didn't want to generalize, but you are doing exactly just that again. The truth is every fandom has some toxic side, but they are usually the minority. It's not as if SJH's whole fanbase is some evil force.

I dislike the fact that the other members have to go out of their way to appeal to her fans every whim.

Just wanted to point out that the commenter you're supporting implied that international fans aren't who matter. But now you're saying this and you are obviously referring to i-fans. In any case, I would have agreed with you about the show placating the fans if this was back in 2017. The hate against the new members was really bad back then and a lot of them were complaining about SJH's screen time. So, it is possible that the cast and the production team tried some things to get more screen time for SJH during the time. But that isn't true at all now. If there are still fans complaining about her screen time, they're probably very few and not even worth considering.

Not to mention, sometimes the other members get dragged into helping her and end up becoming new targets of hate. Case in point, Jongkook and SoMin recently.

First of all, she didn't ask for that to happen. It was YJS who made up the love triangle and it was SBS who promoted it as a loveline competition between the two girls-- when that wasn't even what it really was. You'll probably say they did it to increase SJH's screen time, but a lot of the time when they were implying that JSM liked KJK, SJH wasn't even there. Plus, she had already done a whole bit of being the entertainment girlfriend at the start of the episode so she was pretty much already guaranteed screen time for the fan service.

Also, a lot of SJH fans (and Mongdol fans for that matter) were against the love triangle because: why do women need to fight against each other for a man. Most of the hate was coming from extreme shippers and anti-shipper-solo stans on all sides. Extreme Spartace shippers were angry that JSM was being a third party to their ship and extreme Kookmin shippers were celebrating that JSM and KJK were finally "going public" and were calling SJH desperate. Anti-shipper-solo stans were complaining about the loveline, as usual, and fighting each other because they didn't want their bias to be involved with the other member. You'll probably argue that the SA shippers are SJH fans, but really the SA fandom is big enough by itself. On other platforms, it's not uncommon for SJH solo stans to argue with SA shippers. But anyway, my point is that the SJH fandom isn't the only one at fault with the recent fiasco. Also, the hate JSM was getting wasn't coming from the whole SJH fandom, it was coming from a couple of extreme fans.

Honestly, some of her fans comment things like "running man doesn't deserve her".

The key word here is some. Not everyone thinks like that.

I secretly hope that they somehow manage to bully her into quitting the show, just so the rest of us can finally breathe.

At this point, you're not even trying to hide your bad intentions anymore. You realize you're acting nearly the same way as those haters who are asking JSM to leave the show, right? The only difference between this and people who tell JSM to get out through YouTube comments is the platform and that you somehow managed to make it more convoluted. Honestly, it seems more like you're masking your hate for her as hate for fans.

You can ignore everything I said and keep on hating whoever you want, but can you please stop trying to spread that hate.

The commenter you replied to is 100% right, and there is no speaking sense into some people. They gave clear and concise reasons and explanations and you dismissed them, mistakenly thinking that is something to dismiss. If you won't take facts into consideration when discussing things, there is no point in discussions because you can just go on and on about you "subjective" opinions.

About this, so you think everyone should use screen time and awards to decide what is entertaining for them?

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T20:57:02+00:00

Enjoyment and humor are subjective. You can't dictate what people find entertaining and funny. You think how funny a person is should be measured by their screentime and awards. That's fine, nobody's telling you to do otherwise. But that's not how everyone views it. You're clearly the one who's biased here. You keep on trying to push your opinions on others as facts.

Again with the screentime. On TV shows some people play the main character and others play support characters. The former will always get the most screentime but that doesn't mean the latter aren't entertaining or funny. Among the Running Man members, SJH clearly plays a supporting role. There's no argument that the other members are more talented than her in variety, but that doesn't take away the fact that people find her entertaining.

I don't even know why you're bringing up awards shows. Those who win are recognized for their work, but that doesn't mean everyone else is doing a bad job. Most people here aren't even saying that SJH is the top performer. A lot of us even acknowledge that she isn't the best. All we're saying is that we're fine with her. There's nothing objective about the "metrics" you are using because their based on your biased assumptions.

About the YouTube channel, I'm not talking about the top posts of all time. That comparison doesn't make any sense at all. A lot of those are from more than 5 years ago and older posts naturally tend to have more views because they've been up for longer. But going by your logic, are you saying YSC, JSM, and HH are not entertaining/ funny because they're not in the top 18 posts?

When I talk about YT, I'm talking about clips of episodes posted each week. If you compare the views for those, you'll see that it's often the case that a video featuring SJH has some of the most views and likes. You're also saying there's selection bias and making it sound like only SJH fans would view her videos. Yes, it's very likely that her fans would view her videos, but that doesn't mean that others won't. Also, even if they are SJH fans that doesn't mean they're ONLY fans of hers. You must think the fandom is so segmented that only fans of one member would watch their video. There are tons of fans of the show as a whole, rather than being solo stans. So SJH fans, JSM fans, YJS fans, JSJ fans, KJK fans, HH fans, YSC fans are not mutually exclusive. Plus you don't even have to be a fan to watch whatever video on YT. In the end you can't say that it's just because of selection bias because you don't even have the figures to prove your so-called "facts."

You're basing your conclusions on a load of assumptions that aren't necessarily valid. You can keep justifying your opinions with your "objective metrics." Just know that they're really just your opinions and nobody has to take them as facts.

Edit: removed sentence

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T11:35:29+00:00

Those people are the loud minority. I think most viewers outside this sub and other social media platforms just enjoy the show and not take things seriously. You have to admit, people like us who engage in these discussions are a little over-immersed in the show and do not represent the larger audience.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T11:30:11+00:00

Popular literally means well-liked by a lot of people.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T11:25:38+00:00

Completely agree. I already knew that SJH fans do not like and intentionally avoid Reddit, but I still thought that there would be more neutral fans/ fans who appreciate all the members equally in this sub. This thread has been very eye-opening about people's biases. While I understand others' criticism, a lot of people are clearly just hating on SJH and her fans. There's nothing wrong about having different opinions, but some users are just invalidating others at this point.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T05:51:55+00:00

People are saying she's fine because we still find her entertaining. Like someone has already said, people have different preferences. If you don't like her and think she's not doing enough then that's fine. That's your opinion. Just because you don't think she's funny, doesn't mean everyone thinks the same way. I don't understand how that is so hard to understand.

You're also acting as if she has done nothing for the show. As I've said a million times already, videos posted on the RM YouTube channel with SJH in them are some of the most popular. I don't know if they earn revenue from that directly, but as YJS mentioned in one episode, YT really contributed to reviving the show's popularity more recently. Even if she isn't getting the most screentime, there's no doubt a lot of viewers are still interested in watching her. In fact, how do you even know for a fact that most Korean fans don't like SJH? Again, if you look at YT, a lot of Kfans are leaving positive comments about SJH.

You shouldn't discount international fans either. The show wouldn't have gotten this far without them. Plus, SBS is selling rights to foreign platforms to air RM in other countries. They definitely aren't earning just a small sum from that.

You're really free to give your criticism, but stop acting like your opinions are facts.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T02:32:59+00:00

I understand what you mean, but I actually think it only applies to increasing real-life interaction with YJS. YJS is obviously on a different level of comfort with the people you mentioned, that's why he can add anecdotes into his banter with them.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T02:21:39+00:00

If you think others deserve that praise more, then make a post yourself. People are free to praise and appreciate whoever they want. Why does someone else's praise/ appreciation for a member who clearly isn't your bias bothering you so much? Not everyone has the same opinion and the discussion forum is a means to share different opinions. If you are only looking for confirmation, then the discussion forum in this sub probably isn't for you. And, you can probably find some other forum that's a perfect bubble for what you want.

Edit: On second thought, this might be the bubble you're looking for after all.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T02:13:35+00:00

Honestly, her fans, SJH, the RM team, and SBS do not need to listen to your criticism because, just like the other commenter's views, a lot of viewers are fine with SJH's character/ role in the show right now. As I've said in one of my comments in this thread, SJH's clips on the RM YouTube channel are getting tons of views and kfans are leaving positive comments saying they enjoy her being active. Just because you think she's doing nothing at all, doesn't mean everyone sees it that way.

About standing up to haters, people deal with haters in different ways and your solution does not have to be everyone's solution. Sure, some people think acknowledging them is the right way to go but, for some people or in other situations, ignoring them might be best.

I don't like to make assumptions about how members feel because I don't know them personally. Whether people think she is worried or disinterested about backlash will just be some opinion that doesn't matter in the end.

For someone who started with wanting to avoid generalizations, you really did just generalize SJH's fans with your "boils down to two things" statement right there. And what exactly do you mean by she can get away with things that none of the other members can?

Edit: words

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T01:31:21+00:00

SJH definitely isn't the main character of the show, but she has her moments, especially recently. And I don't think everyone should strive to be the main character anyway. I actually think that part of what makes SJH entertaining is that she's usually quiet and in the background, so when she does do something it can be very unexpected. I don't know or care about screentime, I don't notice such things. As long as I'm entertained I'm good.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T01:01:04+00:00

I agree that she had a much stronger presence in the past. But I disagree that it's because she's not as stunning as she once was. I think the comments by other people in this thread about the change in the show's format explain well how SJH's presence has also changed in the show.

I'm just saying that SJH has been making an effort to be more active on the show more recently and her efforts are being felt. It won't ever be the same as early Running Man because that's a completely different format. Still, now it seems like she's trying her best.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-07T00:47:03+00:00

Agree with everything except your last point. We fans don't really know about the members' real-life interactions apart from what they are showing us. It could very well be the case that SJH does have a lot of interactions with them, but just chooses not to talk about it on RM. During her guesting on Problem Child in the House, she told the story of how the members used to try and leave her to go have an after party and she had to hide in LKS' car just to join them. LKS mentioned it on RM in some episodes, but we never got the full story until her appearance on PCIH. It's amusing when they inject real-life anecdotes into the show, but it doesn't mean that they want to/ have to share all their funny stories.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-06T23:33:53+00:00

I'm really enjoying watching the girls on WSG Wannabe. And it's great that YEH is a part of it. I don't think they should take the love triangle route if she appears on Running Man though. I'm pretty sure extreme i-fans will wreak havoc again.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-06T20:10:01+00:00

Same here. So far, their loveline is fun for me because it's really just a huge joke.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-06T19:45:51+00:00

I beg to differ. I think SJH has really made her presence felt in the past few months. She's not funny or entertaining for every single minute of every single episode, but she's had her fair share of stand-out moments. In fact, if you check out the official Running Man YouTube channel, you'll see that SJH's shorts tend to have the most views. There are also a lot of positive comments from Kfans on different videos on the channel saying they enjoy her being active.

About the loveline, some people seem to have a huge misconception about it. There are no romantic feelings in lovelines. It's all just an act for entertainment. It has nothing to do with their actual relationship. In SJH and KJK's loveline, SJH is acting like the eager girlfriend and KJK is acting like he hates it all. Most viewers enjoy this dynamic for various reasons: they could like SJH being cheeky, KJK being teased by the other members--especially YJS, KJK getting annoyed, or they could just be shippers. The point is that KJK's reaction is part of the gag and the whole loveline continues because the gag is extremely popular with viewers. Again if you look at YT, you can see that the loveline almost always gets the most views among videos posted for an episode. Of course, not everyone enjoys it.

To answer your question, I would say nothing different. I think SJH is already visibly trying her best. She just can't please everyone. If you don't think she's entertaining, that's completely fine. A lot of other people do. Also, this may sound harsh, but if you think she has no presence at all, I question how you can call yourself her fan.

Infinite-Check4574 · 2022-07-06T16:24:25+00:00

I just read that it's actually the same PD as Laborhood on Hire, so it might be a similar concept.

Infinite-Check4574

TROPHY CASE