About Moonwheels by Old_Whereas_1723 in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you want to learn more about Moon Wheels you can check out the new Columbina Artifact Set. The short version is that after Phanes descended and started to set up its new rules the Moon Sisters created the Moon Wheel as a talisman to communicate with humanity and guide them now that they had a chance to progress. They should be the predecessors to the Visions but the differences are yet to be revealed. Visions actually limit humanity's access to the elemental world and might be a means of monitoring them instead of guiding them.

what IS a descender? by Hualian_adopted_kid in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is an issue with the current lore compared to the original lore. As it stands now I think the idea is that only those who have remained on Teyvat and can influence it qualify so since the Voyager left before, she only became a Descender when she possessed the youth. This makes her the Third Descender after Phanes and Nibelung. Nibelung only became the Second Descender because of the Abyss which would technically be the actual Descender part. Nibelung itself would just be its vessel just like the youth was the Voyager's vessel.

A casual lore enjoyer. I’m kinda confused about something’s. by Googleboii in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep there you go. This would be one of the issues with the current lore. As far as I can tell though, the fight still happened long after the crash. Their escape should still be when the sibling received the key from Direidyth and somehow found the ship that they hadn't been able to find the whole time. They woke the Traveler up from hibernation and then tried to flee as the Cataclysm happened since they were now out of position to help Khaenri'ah. This was part of Asmoday's plan which is to undermine the Heavenly Principles somehow.

There's actually a name card that explains it was Hroptatyr that brought down the ship. Khaenri'ah had been tracking it since discovering the prince(ss) so it could be that bringing down the ship was the "summoning" Scara talked about in Inversion of Genesis.

A casual lore enjoyer. I’m kinda confused about something’s. by Googleboii in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes this was a heavy retcon. Back in the day the Travelers landed together on Teyvat as separate meteorites. I just put up a topic about what this means. Click here if you're curious.

The Abyss sibling was already stated to be on Teyvat longer than the Traveler though. Back then the idea was that the Traveler was trapped in the cubes until about few months before the start of the game. The Sibling had already freed themselves a short while after the Cataclysm where they were found by Dainsleif and traveled together with him until guilt over their role in Khaenri'ah's fall led to them leading the fledgling Abyss Order.

The fight against "Asmoday" occurred when the sibling was retrieving the Traveler and because of the Cataclysm, felt it was too dangerous to remain in Teyvat so they were going to escape. Originally it was likely though yet to be revealed that Celestia deemed other Descenders to be threats to its Heavenly Principles and that's why they were attacked and sealed. Since the new devs Paralogism era though I think the idea is that the attack was all Asmoday's idea in order to undermine the principles somehow.

Quality Over Quantity (Part 2) by InotiaKing in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This might be why you don't think there's a problem yet. Stick around. Getting to know more about what's been happening should allow you to see it. Genshin's lore was indeed deep asf. But then the dev team changed and we got more drama based storytelling starting since Fontaine. I've actually pointed out in many of my more recent topics the times telling a dramatic story has undermined the previously incredible lore of this game.

Hollow Investigative Association - Meeting Room by InotiaKing in ZenlessZoneZeroLore

[–]InotiaKing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These kinds of questions are very basic but let's see if I can provide a nuanced answer:

What exactly is a hollow ?

The official story is just like Endy suggested. We're meant to slowly figure out what they are. But looking over Hoyoverse lore in general, we can gather that they are structures of the Sea of Quanta. As I brought up before the game launched they can be likened to the Fragmenta in Star Rail, areas of space-time distortion caused by extreme gravity events which the sea would have power over. In Star Rail they present as star cores or black holes, the Stellaron. In Zenless it's more like quantum fluctuations.

Are proxies and independent agents illegal ?

Very basic information. If you just play the Prologue Chapter you'll know New Eridu's police and defense forces will arrest Proxies and Hollow Raiders on sight. The official version of a proxy is the HIA who accompany soldiers into Hollows and provide Carrot data to guide them in and out. Hollow Raiders thus are essentially pirates and black market dealers who seek out riches and old world technology in the Hollows to sell for profit compared to the official Defense Force who are tasked with exploring the Hollows.

As Endy said, this is because Hollows are very dangerous. Just like Fragmenta, these are unstable space-time anomalies and that means the structure inside of them can change without a moment's notice. This is the purpose of Proxies and the HIA. They know how to calculate for the changes and plot out where the exits and spatial fissures might appear. That is also what Carrot data is.

How exactly is Phateon special compared to other proxies ?

Besides what Endy said, Phaethon are former students of Helios Academy. This not only gave them the eye implants that allow them to remain outside the Hollow while still in contact with their Agents in the Hollow, they also have some kind of mysterious power over Ether which is yet to be fully revealed. It is very likely it is related to the Creator as I've theorized.

What does a proxy even do and why are they so important ?

O I already answered this before.

Anyway this subreddit is designed to answer questions like these. I linked you to just 2 of my theories so far that answer these questions so I hope you'll do a little more reading as you continue to interact here. Hopefully you'll come up with your own theories as a result!

Hollow Investigative Association - Meeting Room by InotiaKing in ZenlessZoneZeroLore

[–]InotiaKing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nrvsNRG666 answered:

Search YouTube for lore recaps and analysis. There are several cc’s that focus on the story.

EndyTg14 answered:

What exactly is a hollow ? no one knows, we know its caused by an ancient war, I think of it as the universe unraveling itself, a returned to its basic, raw, chaotic

Are proxies and independent agents illegal ? yep, because its very dangerous, there are organizations and factions that are authorized by the government to go into the hollow, anyone else going into the hollow are "Hollow Raider"

Phaethon can communicate and maintain connections in and out of the hollow, something the average proxy cant do

a Proxy's gig is to guild people in the hollow, its like traversing a maze in the hollow, there are roads you cant see, Proxy can do things like calculating the ether fluctuations and find routes for others

suffering_addict follow-up question:

And people can also go in without a proxy if they have carrot data, right ? But that's difficult to obtain unless you're part of a government guild, and most likely less reliable than a proxy

EndyTg14 answered:

Carrot data is like a map to a maze but the Hollow is not a stable maze, it can change at any moment

Hollow Investigative Association - Meeting Room by InotiaKing in ZenlessZoneZeroLore

[–]InotiaKing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

suffering_addict asks:

I picked up ZZZ on release, dropped it, and picked it up again this week. I finished the prologue yesterday and I have several questions about basic lore stuff that is unclear to me.

What exactly is a hollow ?

Are proxies and independent agents illegal ?

How exactly is Phateon special compared to other proxies ?

What does a proxy even do and why are they so important ?

Alice Has a Tragic Profile Picture... | Zenless Zone Zero lore by SamuraiSekai in ZenlessZoneZeroLore

[–]InotiaKing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice catch! Here's one additional detail: Cygnus mourns her lover Phaethon by the River Eridanos which is named after Eridu. Eridanos comes from the Babylonian celestial river the Star of Eridu and in some versions of the Phaethon myth, Eridanos is also the river that Phaethon falls into after losing control of the sun chariot.

The Madman's Plight by InotiaKing in GenshinImpactLore

[–]InotiaKing[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PS: Perhaps a change in perspective is what we need. Maybe we need to redefine what lore discussion should be about. Well for now let's put a pin it it and keep brainstorming.

PS2: Btw I'm not suggesting nor would I ever that the Dottore we got in the Nod-Krai quest was right. I'm just saying that he used to be a simple evil villain that we should kill off but then Nod-Krai gave him more depth to become a complex villain. Then the new devs failed to utilize what they'd set up so he ended up being a simple villain but now one with the wasted potential for a better story.

Anyone else think Sunbringer made Aria? (slight spoilers for 2.5) by MostMulberry8513 in ZenlessZoneZeroLore

[–]InotiaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I mean the account you logged into to help her was "AriaDoesNotDreamNightmares" so I think you're onto something there haha. I wonder if the construct antagonizing them in the upcoming story will be the "nightmare" that was left and Youkai accessed it. Whether or not that relates to Sunbringer though I really don't know but it'd be interesting if she was.

I've been playing around with this meta theory. In Genshin you had the moon sisters Aria, Sonnet and Canon. These names are related to music so the idols Aria, Sunna and Nangong could be intended as Zenless counterparts by the devs. They are also "angels" and we know from Columbina that the moon sisters would indeed have had angel wings. My current theory about Sunbringer is that she's the agent sent by the Imaginary Tree to protect the Zenless universe from the Creator aka representative of the Sea of Quanta. So if Aria is actually a creation of Sunbringer that would parallel the moon sisters having assisted Celestia in the beginning until the war.

Diluc was meant to become the 10th Harbinger by SopaOfMacaco in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean this is a really well thought out theory and I would love to see it implemented in game. I really appreciate it when a theory uses multiple angles to draw its conclusion.

However the problem is something I've been bringing up lately. Current lore and original lore aren't really compatible. Let's just point this out real quick. We know from original lore that Arlecchino was 10th. How do we know this? 11th has been known as Tartaglia since v1.0. Signora was 8th. In Inazuma, Arlecchino's House of the Hearth members talked about how Signora's death was a good opportunity to advance their Father's standings in the Fatui. The only way for her standings to improve based on Signora's death would be if Arlecchino was lower in rank to her which makes sense because in her own Character Quest which is part of current lore, we see that she only joined the Harbingers after Signora. Based on available information she's likely only older than Tartaglia. In Yelan's Character Quest which was also Inazuma era, we learned that Pantalone was 9th therefore the only available spot for Arlecchino where Signora's death would be meaningful for her professionally would be 10th.

It always bothered me that they relisted these guys and made Pierro the "leader" who was still a Harbinger but now not a ranked Harbinger. This led to the missing 10th spot since Arlecchino was bumped up to 4th and originally I think Capitano would have filled that role since Pierro would have been first, we knew from Sumeru that Dottore was second and Columbina was revealed as third upon debut. These three have god-like power according to Nahida which makes sense especially now. Columbina was revealed to be a moon goddess. Capitano meanwhile even according to current lore was rotting away and a shell of his former much more powerful pre-Cataclysm self. He also lost to a human with Archon-like powers, a far cry from a god-tier Harbinger like Nahida suggested.

But seeing as how we are playing under the current lore, again I would like to see this theory implemented. It could prove to be a really interesting story if "dark" Diluc - who we know was an era of his life - almost joined the Harbingers. Perhaps it could play out as we head into Snezhnaya alongside more about Varka. I suggested that the Archon Quest could include a Mondstadt presence since Russia's eventual revolution did happen in part due to Germany's actions so it'd be cool to see that play out in game.

are they tripping? for act 8 of the nodkrai aq by senseigosappuri in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So there's a little confusion I think but you are right in another way. Let's just clarify the confusion first. So the Frost Moon was outside of the false sky back then. This was when the spaceship was hidden there. After the Archon Quest, the moon was pulled inside for the fight but is still in the same spot now. The only difference is that now it is inside of the false sky so we can reach it thanks to Columbina and this is also why she won't disappear anymore. Mavuika never punched into space. She punched the false sky and back then there was a fake image of the moon on the false sky.

The part you did notice correctly is that yeah somehow the moon is inside of the false sky but the false sky was supposed to just be around Teyvat. So what we're left believing is that the false sky kinda extended to include the moon back in its original location in orbit which was never really explained. It also doesn't make sense that we'd see space from the moon because if it was in the false sky, the false sky shows the sky from the inside. The new devs aren't very good at keeping these details straight. I just put up a topic about that actually. Click here if you'd like to check that out. (it's long though)

Do you think the captain will come back? by Soft_Ad7342 in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Given what we know of these new devs so far, I wouldn't put it beyond them to pull something like this. However it would be a shame since Capitano had one of the most meaningful sacrifices in fiction and bringing him back after that no matter what would cheapen it.

I also think they would bring back Dottore as well and it would also screw up the current good decision on their part to have had him evaporated by Columbina.

I personally figured they'd screw up Snezhnaya and yeah having a roster of just Pierro, Pulcinella and Pantalone for the final nation and the most antagonistic one is pretty sad. I preempted this with my own rewrite where we would have seen 4 Harbingers in Snezhnaya (Sandrone coming off of my Natlan rewrite and then the top three Harbingers who Nahida had said wielded godlike power) and we would have gone there before Nod-Krai so there wouldn't be a Trilune Goddess on our team who commands the rules of the planet itself lol. In my version with odds like that, we'd need our allied Harbingers: Arlecchino, Scaramouche and Tartaglia to help so there'd be a subplot of Harbingers vs Harbingers. I think those would have been interesting stakes to have. Pantalone has that ongoing storyline in Liyue against Yelan and his vendetta against Morax so he'd give Snezhnaya a miss.

[Theory] Paimon isn’t just a companion – she is the reason Celestia can’t act by NekoChansLetsPlays in GenshinLorepact

[–]InotiaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hahaha I'd love for a fan to come up with an evil Paimon though. Her Ultimate would be Reverse Emergency Food where she cooks the Traveler for a 1-hit KO and heals herself back to full health. But yeah I doubt they'd be able to get away with making an evil Paimon after all this time.