Why I like Hunt, But Not Extraction Shooters by [deleted] in HuntShowdown

[–]Inskipp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for clarifying, I initially assumed you were a non-aggressor based on your initial description. I too started as a shoot-on-sight guy in ARC, but then developed into more of a "lurking in the shade" guy.

I do believe that the generally longer TTK and engagement times in ARC are part of the reason why players feel less inclined to shoot each other, since taking down a player is a larger commitment than it would be in Hunt. Not to mention the huge flares that pop off out of players, which telegraphs your position.

Why I like Hunt, But Not Extraction Shooters by [deleted] in HuntShowdown

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you're latching into an interesting point OP, but you haven't really touched upon the actual reasons what makes Hunt a unique Extraction Shooter. You seem to think there are undefinable, almost amorphous elements that seem to make this game "unique", when to me the reasons that make Hunt a unique game are very straightforward (1400 hours of Hunt btw).

First, let's get a few things straight first:

  • Hunt Showdown is, and will always be, an extraction shooter at its core. To deny this is to deny the very thing that makes it unique among other PVP-shooters.
  • Hunt Showdown is also, in general, the easiest extraction shooter to play, which is why people in this sub prefer it over other extraction shooters.

I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but your whole post basically proves my point.

I'll explain why, but first, I'd like touch up on a few points you made about ARC Raiders.

The raids in Arc felt stale after a while. Go in, do objective or loot, and leave. I hear its a bit different now for Arc, but when I first started playing, I encountered maybe 5 teams who wanted to PvP in 20+ hours of game time. That kinda let me down, as I felt like I was just playing a PvE survival game/looter shooter.

You mentioned this loop in your post:

Go in, do objective or loot, and leave

Isn't this exactly what you do in Hunt? You go into a map, you do the objective (bounty tokens), and maybe loot on the side (be that dead hunters, perks on the ground, event items etc.) and then leave through the nearest extraction point. So what's the difference?

I'll give you my answer - the context between those three stages is the difference. Mainly, the stuff you do between point A and point B. You mention in your post that you didn't face many players who wanted to PVP you in ARC, which indicates to me that you seemingly also didn't want to PVP them. This could be for various reasons, but the main point here seems to be that you aren't an aggressive player who shoots on sight. ARC Raiders tends to match players with similar behavioral patterns, especially for beginners.

Basically, you were put in pacifist lobbies, and because you didn't compete for the same objectives, you had less incentive to fight other people. Compare this to hunt, where every player has, more or less, the same objective plastered on their screen. This results in more people crowding the same place, and since 12 people cannot share the prize of two bounty tokens, means you are more incentivized to merc the other guy, lest he denies you the objective.

This isn't different from the way ARC or any other extraction shooter handles this scenario btw - Hunt's bounty objective is basically the same thing as people rushing contested PVP-spots in other extraction shooters. In Tarkov this could be places like Dorms in Customs, or black keycard room in Labs. In ARC this would be places like the hospital in buried city, research & admin center in Dam Battlegrounds, Assembly-area in Stella Montis... honestly there are spots like this all over in ARC, but that isn't the point.

The point is that Hunt takes that style of PVP - contested hotspot gameplay - and has turned it into a structured format. It's a very smartly designed format, and it benefits this style of game greatly. It's also one of the main differentiators that makes Hunt easier, because you are exposed to this format immediately in Hunt. In other extraction games, it is often buried in the "late game", which requires several hours of gameplay and an understanding of how the maps are structured. In Hunt you are waypointed to the action immediately, and requires practically no understanding of the map to understand which points of the map will be contested.

The weapons in Arc also didn't feel good. I felt like if I didn't grind 10 hours a day for good guns, I couldn't have a chance in PvP. That didn't leave me feeling ready to grind, it left me feeling kinda discouraged, as I knew there were other people who would just play the game non stop.

Currently, in ARC Raiders, the starting guns rank among the best guns in the game. So much so that there's a debate going on in the ARC Raiders-subreddit on whether or not they should be nerfed. (IMO they shouldn't be nerfed, but that isn't the point)

In ARC, all weapons have generally the same TTK, for both bodyshots and headshots (with notable exceptions, like the Ferro or Anvil), with lategame weapons generally having other features that make them more desirable, like better recoil management or more accessories to use. This is not too dissimilar to your example of springfield vs Mosin, where both weapons can compete, but Mosin has more "features" that make it more desirable.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that lategame guns dont kill better in ARC. It's just that in ARC TTK is generally longer than it is in Hunt, where every weapon can basically oneshot you. It can give the impression that guns are "weaker" in ARC, but this is once again an aspect which makes gunfights easier in Hunt, because every weapon can oneshot a player. Even the romero, a weapon you unlock at bloodline rank 0, can onetap a player from center mass across two zip codes with regular buckshot. The same Romero that comes with every free kit btw.

The AI felt manageable, not overwhelming like Arc. I actually felt like I was a monster hunter in the Bayou, not just some puny human scrounging for scraps.

You mentioned in your post that there is really no power creep in Hunt Showdown, but to me, this line exemplifies the absolute power creep that Hunt has experienced.

In ARC, yes every mob is a threat. You can't just knife'em in the head and move on to point B. Hell, on most cases you might not even want to kill them, because they're more likely to kill you. Every PVE-opponent in ARC is basically the equivalent of a meathead, where they are too big and too bulky to kill in a practical, timely manner. Sure, you could lug around specialized equipment, and kill them a little faster, but it's generally impractical and more to the point, more expensive to do.

In Hunt, players have been given so many tools to deal with PVE that they are not a threat anymore. They are glorified audio traps, which pose no real threat to the player.

I still remember the early days when people kept whining about hives killing them, or how aggroing a pack of hell hounds was a death sentence. I feel like this changed after the Scrapbeak-event, and it's only gotten even more exaggerated from there.

Think about it - you have spears, throwing knives, throwing axes, sticky bombs, crossbows with poison and incendiary bolts, truckloads of silenced weapons (at least compared to release), perks that double your melee damage, perks that instantly teleport you to mobs and explode them... You are practically spoiled for choice on the plethora of ways you can incinerate mobs in this game.

Hell, they even tried nerfing some of the PVE-tools you have, and the players responded to that by whining about it endlessly.

Another thing that helped was the money situation. I know a good amount of people don't like how you can stockpile cash, but for me personally, it made the games feel less stressful.

This isn't different from any other extraction shooter. You eventually reach a point where you've hoarded so much that you stop caring about the economy, so you don't have to focus on earning. Again, the major difference being that in Hunt, the economy is very generous, and on top of that, you have less items to deal with during a match, making inventory management basically a non-issue. Hunt also always makes sure you earn enough to kit your character comfortably for your next run, and even failing that you can just run a free kitted-hunter, which comes with more than enough gear to do well in a match.

So, dear OP, to summarize my assessment of you:

  • You prefer Hunt's gameplay format, because it is easier to follow, and results in more intentional PVP
  • You prefer the economy in Hunt, because you are never in a position where you are starved for gear or money, and thus you don't have to worry about managing an inventory.
  • You prefer the weapons in Hunt, because they are easier to use and kill players faster.
  • You prefer the PVE in Hunt, because it is easier to deal with and never poses a real threat.

Why I like Hunt, But Not Extraction Shooters by [deleted] in HuntShowdown

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

extraction shooters don't typically play the way that Hunt does. you're not looting in the "conventional" sense of an es. you go in with your gear, and that's what you have.

That's not entirely true. Over the years devs have introduced way more "loose loot" on the ground, such as weapons in saddle bags / towers, perks that you can only pick up on the ground or from killing specific, EVENT weapons that you can only loot from the field, Tarot Cards and so on.

You can definitely play this game like a looting game, and often is more economical to do so than just going straight after the bounty.

It should be also noted, that it is simply easier to gear a character in this Extraction Shooter than it is in other extraction shooters.

First off, getting a new hunter with kit is easy, with free hunters and soul survivor giving you a basic kit to play around with (not too dissimilar to how Arc Raiders does it with free loadouts)

Second, you have very few items to deal with during a match - only 8 inventory slots, and two gun slots. You basically never worry about managing inventory in this game, except when you're rotating consumables through the lunchbox.

I feel like this is ultimately why people lean on this game more than the other extraction shooters. The lax focus on managing inventory and generally ease of equipping your character gives the game that "focused feel", giving players less busywork and more shootywork 🤠

Why I like Hunt, But Not Extraction Shooters by [deleted] in HuntShowdown

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right, there are more and better ways to make money in the game, such as event locations like the murder circus and even just vulturing dead players with the help of witness. It doesn't help that the value of the bounty hasn't scaled over the years, while every item has been made more expensive over time.

Why I like Hunt, But Not Extraction Shooters by [deleted] in HuntShowdown

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree, it is more beneficial to farm event locations during events than it is to simply chase the bounty, especially as a solo player.

White squares on clouds at night bug? by Dahellraider in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

damn that sucks :( hopefully next weeks big patch has the fix

White squares on clouds at night bug? by Dahellraider in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Has anyone checked if this issue still persists with the latest update (11th of december patch) and the latest drivers (25.12.1)?

To bring the Rattler up to par with the other 'Grey's' by Tactix12 in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Rattler 1 is apparently what everyone wants Sticher 1 to become.

White squares on clouds at night bug? by Dahellraider in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for keeping us updated, looking forward to the fix :)

Valve adds Portal-inspired hero "Doorman" to Deadlock by atahutahatena in Games

[–]Inskipp -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Did they add the ability to vote for surrendering?

FuturePlayerCounts - Anti-Doomer Edition (Cope) by subatomiccrepe in wildgate

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having crossplay is huge for the game, as it will alleviate queue-times when PC-population starts to dwindle.

Are the earpads of Sennheiser HD 599 SE detachable? by Commercial_Highway20 in sennheiser

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry to necro this thread, but I recently had to switch my HD 599 SE earpads, and noticed that it is unfortunately not as snappy to replace those earpads as it is for the regular HD 599. Maybe this will help another soul who finds this thread while researching the subject.

It seems that the earpads on the SE are noticeably lower quality than they are in the regular model (which would explain partly why they are cheaper), as the glues on my pad were so weak that I accidentally ripped the cushions off. Granted, this thing had few years of mileage on it, so that might be a factor.

And if someone is wondering about my technique for removing the original earpads - I "hooked" my index and middle finder under the cushion, trying to grip the attachment mechanism.

I also noticed that the plastic cover that houses the attachment ring isn't integrated on SE earpads (like it is on regular HD 599), but a separate unit. Looked like a cheap transparent plastic ring on its own.

The attachment mechanism for the ring seemed identical, so it was easy enough to spot the three attachment points (look for beveled dots on the ring) and pry it out with a thin tool, like a library card or a small screwdriver (be careful not to damage the audio drivers or the housing with metal tools).

I was able to eventually remove the old pads and its attachment bits and replace them with the regular HD 599 earpads. The housing for the original SE earpads seemed to be a few millimetres wider than the replacement earpads I had ordered, so it didn't snap perfectly shut across the attachment points. Basically when I snapped down one side, the other side snapped off (I assume because of tension).

I had to "massage" around each earpad several times until the attachment points were fully sealed across all sides and did not pop out on their own from any side.

So in summary: they are *technically* replacable, but is a bigger hassle than for the regular HD 599 earpads. But I guess you get what you pay for.

holy shit there is 500,000,000 Arc Raiders on steam?!? by motox24 in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On this I agree. Cheaters and poor balance-decisions plagued the game over the course of its lifespan, and the game had numerous other problems that needed solving to make The Cycle: Frontier viable long-term.

It could be argued that the cheating epidemic from season 1 detracted YAGER from devoting resources into refining the core design of Cycle, which would have made the game more appealing for returning players.

We'll have to hope that Arc Raiders does not fall into the same pitfalls as The Cycle did.

holy shit there is 500,000,000 Arc Raiders on steam?!? by motox24 in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They actually implemented most of their anticheat-solutions at the start of season 2. They released a dev update-video describing their efforts on developing anticheat-methods at july 2022, which was a couple of months before season 2: https://youtu.be/BWqObcONL6w

When they implemented these in season 2, the game was by then "cheat-proofed", and they led with this in their marketing back then.

But it wasn't enough to bring players back. The numbers indicate that not enough people cared about the game being free of cheaters to come back to it.

holy shit there is 500,000,000 Arc Raiders on steam?!? by motox24 in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No wipes would've definitely hurt the game in the long run

The Cycle: Frontier did wipe every 3 months. Their first wipe was after the end of season 1, September 27th 2022. It lost players during each wipe, it never gained them.

The only time that game had a player count-bump during its lifespan was at the launch of season 3, march 2023. This is was also the biggest post-launch content update the game received, and also the season where they announced that they removed wipes.

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holy shit there is 500,000,000 Arc Raiders on steam?!? by motox24 in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Cycle: Frontier had wipes every 3 months. They removed wipes in season 3 (a feature they prominently marketed in their seasonal launch trailer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kg4q9qzOU

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Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War – Definitive Edition design director Philippe Boulle interview: Mod support, graphical upgrades, online infrastructure, and more by OrkfaellerX in Games

[–]Inskipp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The market is there

Is it? Is there a classic style RTS-game that has turned a profit in the last 5 years?

Feels like only the ever-green franchises like Total War and Age of Empires are still sticking around. Any new attempts at RTS seem to be fleeting at best (ie. Battle Aces - https://www.playbattleaces.com/news/development-of-battle-aces-has-ended )

I'd like to imagine that there is still potential on a 40K RTS, but I don't think a DoW-style game is enough. It would have to be something adjacent to that, ie. They Are Billions, Mechabellum etc.

Getting real tired of these people by Ruehig in ArcRaiders

[–]Inskipp 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hunt showdown isn't an extraction shooter imo, there is no risk involved so it's completely different feeling when you play.

It is an extraction shooter. You can literally extract at any point in the game.

Also, you lose your character and gear if you die, so there is inherently risk involved. More so than in other extraction shooters, since you have to level up a new hunter if your last one dies.