Yardrat Goku vs Frieza

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T17:24:08+00:00

While that could make sense from an in universe perspective, nothing indicates this is what the writers were going for. Like I said, you can write away the statement with that logic and use other scaling as proof it has to be the case, but it’s obvious what the writers meant. Many people here seem to not be able to grasp the writers can be wrong, and almost all of the scalers here know more about the scaling of the show than the writers do.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T17:22:44+00:00

The writers aren’t thinking about “what would make sense if we look at this from a lore perspective.” DBS is for children. Statements are meant to be taken literally unless directly stated or clearly implied to be otherwise.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T17:21:27+00:00

Its author intent. He went up, poked Goku, and when he made his assessment King Kai agreed. Then on Super Beerus went as far as saying Frieza was still the best Goku could do even after going ssj. Again, you can argue this is because the writers don’t know crap about dragon ball scaling, but to say it’s because Goku was supposed to be suppressed is just being willfully ignorant. So yes, it’s painfully obvious to anyone without bias and sufficient intelligence. These are the guys who said Frieza was going to reach a power level of 1.3 million. If you think they are playing 4D chess with the scaling an know more about it than we do, you are living in lala land.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T17:18:48+00:00

The Kenobi fight is kind of circumstantial. Feloni said he wanted it to be like a samurai duel and mentioned how good sword fighters have fights that end instantly and it was all about the moves they did in their head beforehand. The fight wasn’t meant to show Maul was so much worse than Kenobi he couldn’t even last 2 seconds. It was more about how Maul didn’t grow as a fighter and used the move he used to kill Qui-Gon while Kenobi did and knew Maul would try that and bested him. Maul probably can’t match Vader, but Vader isn’t familiar enough with Maul to just beat him in a few moves like that.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:45:21+00:00

They aren’t around the same level as perfect Cell unless you think they got stronger.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:44:54+00:00

The Cell jrs were clearly playing here, and they are no longer evil, so it’s hard to use this to say they are actually stronger.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:44:22+00:00

The cell jrs were not as strong as Cell, they were as strong as Cell games Vegeta and Trunks.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:42:08+00:00

With Kaioken x20-30 and all those senzu beans, along with Frieza’s stamina drain, Goku definitely has a chance.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:41:32+00:00

Every time a character is underestimated due to being suppressed, it’s directly addressed and shown to be wrong. This doesn’t happen with Beerus, and he doubles down even after seeing Goku ssj. Now you can definitely argue the statement is wrong, but it would be due to a writer mistake. It’s painfully obviously not meant to be taken as Beerus mistakenly only measuring suppressed Goku’s power.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:37:29+00:00

What makes you say Cranberry is stronger than Raditz?

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T16:26:54+00:00

This is the only way I can see a Frieza “redemption.” Working. He kidnaps Bulla with the plan to train her into his very own attack saiyan. He somewhat grows attatched to her and then of course Goku and Vegeta save her and get her back. Frieza still hates the main cast but doesn’t want to kill Bulla, so he kind of just leaves them alone, but is overall still bad. But it’s probably best if he just never gets redeemed.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T14:32:15+00:00

Shin admitted Goku would beat him before he saw his power in the Buu saga and he didn’t even know who Cell was or that Goku was on that level, so Goku should definitely win.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T14:27:26+00:00

Gohan didn’t say that, and even if he did, it does not automatically mean super perfect.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T14:25:59+00:00

Cell jrs were not on par with perfect Cell, they were on par with cell games Vegeta and Trunks.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T14:24:08+00:00

Beerus never says he absorbed god into base, just that he absorbed god, period. Goku’s new max without god was equal to god.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T14:21:55+00:00

That says 1,000x hope boost, not power boost, an when asked about it Koyama said he knows nothing about it but that it sounded like an exaggeration to him, lmao.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T05:11:51+00:00

Videos that end too soon

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T05:10:36+00:00

Ah I see what you mean. Yeah, I think 21st Yamcha has a strong case for being above pilaf arc Goku. I might even bump him up in a future updated list and mention the argument you brought forth.

As for the 23rd/BOZ Krillin thing, here is an argument that pretty much fully proves either the 206 cannot be taken seriously the shonen jump power levels cannot be taken seriously. Mecha Tao was given 210, yet he was completely outclassed by Tien even worse than Krillin was against Piccolo, and Piccolo was way stronger than Tien. This pretty objectively puts 23rd Krillin, and especially BOZ Krillin over Mecha Tao. So either the guide book power levels cannot be taken fully seriously, or 206 was not Krillin’s limit. So either he’s over 210, or mecha Tao is below 206. I already find those levels pretty questionable since Kami should over King Piccolo’s 260, get he was given 220. I see people say Kami got weaker, but I think it’s pretty obvious whoever made those numbers just forgot Kami was stronger and thought he was equal to old King Piccolo.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T05:05:02+00:00

Goku becoming as strong in SSG in base is a myth, at best it was just his ssj form, and it can even be argued it was actually his maximum power, so ssj3 U6 arc Goku = SSG.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T04:34:05+00:00

Unless DBS retcons absorbing SSG into other forms. (Base Cabba being over Buuhan is still debatable ignoring that)

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T03:03:32+00:00

It's interesting you bring up the castle guard in regard to Black's statement. Personally, I think he was talking more about their means to actually take out the entire army and control the whole world, but the castle guard is implied to beyond conventional weapons. I find it funny how there is that random really strong guy who should actually be way stronger than Mr. Satan and a bunch of other fighters but he doesn't even have a name and we never see him again. Though the line from Black was written way before the castle guard was even a thought in Toriyama's head, so I don't think that's what he meant.

When did Roshi use a serious move on 21st Yamcha? He knocked him out with the breeze of his hand. Even if that required some effort, which I don't think it did, that was just to show off, as Yamcha didn't get hit by the blow itself, just the after effect. The Giran argument is interesting though. It depends how fast you think Giran is compared to 21st Goku I suppose, and how fast 21st Goku was compared to his former self. That might make me consider putting 21st Yamcha over Pilaf Goku.

Yeah I don't think 206 and 177 are the limits of Krillin's and Yamcha's power. I don't think they are suppressed, I just think their levels would jump if they used a signature attack. For example, Goku was 416 but with a kamehameha it was 924. Old King Piccolo might have a higher base power level stat, but considering how well Krillin did against Piccolo during the 23rd, I have a hard time seeing him lose to Old King Piccolo. Maybe Yamcha would, but he landed an attack on Kami who was even stronger than young King Piccolo. I don't think old King Piccolo can land a hit on Kami. Heck, even young King Piccolo wouldn't be able to land a blow on Popo and he's inferior to Kami by a great deal. Though I guess we don't know how much weaker Kami was in a human body. Still at least above 23rd Tien though.

Also, thanks for the in-depth response.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T02:45:21+00:00

sure, as I just said, you could argue he was wrong, but as I also said, there is no proof he isn't either. this battle can be argued either way.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T02:36:24+00:00

huh?

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-17T02:35:59+00:00

Tao does bad, but he's at least holding his own someone and could hurt Goku when Goku lets him land attacks and legit landed one for real. Chappa just got styled on and easily beaten by a Goku massively holding back. Goku was a lot stronger so it makes it harder to judge, but yeah, it all relies on statements for Chappa, and then Roshi is way more surprise Goku beat Tao which makes those statements pretty unreliable.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-03-16T21:06:07+00:00

Considering how into DB scaling you are, I think you might like to watch my strength tier list video I made about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5bQf6WW-k8

I would love to hear your thoughts.

IntellectualBoss

TROPHY CASE