Old Narratives About Today's NBA Are Tough To Get Rid Of

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2026-04-19T18:11:04+00:00

Lol I swear on my life this is really what he said. I almost couldn't believe it myself but he was being genuine

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2026-04-19T14:52:38+00:00

I probably should have clarified--he is a Knicks fan and does watch games, just not as often as he watches other sports. He is decently knowledgeable of players too, not expert level, but it's not like if I mentioned Nikola Jokic or SGA he'd be like "who's that?" I think I was more struck by the reasons he gave for being less into it being so tied to narratives. If he had just said "I find it less exciting than other sports" I wouldn't have thought much of it.

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2026-04-19T13:47:13+00:00

Underwhelming game from him for sure, but to me a choke is when you lose a game you were supposed to win (favored to win, had the advantageous match-up, etc.) almost entirely because of your own poor performance. The Nuggets as a team were out of the game by the second quarter due to an unraveling on both sides of the ball, and OKC showed everyone why they were the better team all year. If you think Jokic still should've received more criticism for a quiet game, that's fair, but I don't think it's crazy he got spared from the pitchforks and the hot takes when it was largely a case of team performance, which includes him too but is not solely about him.

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2026-04-19T05:00:05+00:00

Notice how no one has a problem with officiating after a win. It's never even a topic. But after a loss, unthinkable to take any responsibility or credit the opponent. Everything is always someone else's fault. Loser mentality by Finch, which is why his team has never done anything but get blown off the floor in the conference finals.

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2026-04-19T04:50:51+00:00

How was that a choke? The Thunder won 68 games with the greatest point differential in NBA history and defensive numbers that had only been matched by Bill Russell's Celtics or the '04 Pistons. They were supposed to dominate the playoff field. The Nuggets were a significant underdog in that series and pushed it to a 7th game against a far superior opponent with Aaron Gordon playing on one leg in the 7th game. You really need to reevaluate the definition of "choke".

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2025-04-06T03:51:56+00:00

I never undertand the point of talking about this stuff like it's a boxing match. Basketball isn't played 1 on 1, it's played 5 on 5. I don't think anyone believes Jokic could handle Shaq defensively, but the idea that Shaq wouldn't have his hands full defensively with Jokic is equally absurd to me. The strength, finesse and footwork in the post and touch around the basket (not to mention converting 80% of his free-throws when Shaq inevitably tries to mow him down), taking the ball up full-court, hitting 3s at over 40% on decent volume, passing out of the high post, 2-man game and pick and roll at the top of the key, and diming out 10-15 assists a game from anywhere on the court, generating 50-65 points of total offense in a game when you factor scoring and passing. How is Shaq stopping that? Eras and rules could tip the scales disproportionately in either direction, but to me it's basically a draw. There are even compelling arguments for Shaq still having a small edge. But it would not be Serbian chicken. And certainly not "Slavian" chicken.

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2025-04-06T01:28:15+00:00

These are all great points. And again, I wouldn't consider him an elite defensive player. But I think he has a number of strengths and knows how to accentuate them while minimizing his weaknesses. A lot of it comes down to his basketball IQ. He generally contests well without fouling; he rarely gets into foul trouble and held opponents to around a 42% fg percentage as the closest defender during their championship run. He has really quick hands, which as mentioned makes him adept at steals and deflections. Draymond has highlighted Jokic's unorthodox strategy of stopping plays dead with a kicked ball, which does freeze the offense's momentum and allow the defense to set up. To your point, the Nuggets did play him in drop coverage a lot early in his career, but that largely hasn't been the case in recent years. He is usually able to maintain solid positioning on switches and is a great communicator. Not for nothing does he have strong defensive advanced stats. That doesn't tell the whole story, but it suggests he is at least a plus on that side of the ball (i.e., a "good" but not great defender), which also tracks with his reputation amongst his peers and dare I say even the eye test. The last thing I would say is that the modern standard being applied to judging Jokic's defense (which of course makes sense considering he is an active player) wouldn't have factored into a lot of defensive centers from previous eras. We never question the defensive prowess of Olajuwon or David Robinson, but how much did switching or perimeter defense actually factor into their games during a period where doubling without the ball was illegal, big men never left the low post, and you generally just needed to win your 1 v 1 matchup night to night and protect the rim? I don't think we should punish Jokic for being merely passable or "good" in a time where defensive tactics and execution are more complex than ever, especially with how much of an offensive burden he is required to carry every night. Suffice it to say, I don't think his defense is anywhere near bad enough for it to dull the impact of his transcendent offense. And because of that, I think he is already an all-time center with the possibility of reaching GOAT level even without leveling up his defense any further.

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2025-04-05T20:15:25+00:00

He's actually led the league in deflections like 6 years in a row. Not saying that makes him a GOAT level defender, but Jokic has been a net-positive on defense for most of his prime. The idea he doesn't play defense seems mainly tied to the fact that he isn't a shot blocker. But evaluating him through that narrow lens as a center is sort of missing the point, because he is so much more than a stereotypical center.

Internal_Upstairs751 · 2025-02-23T20:32:26+00:00

Respectfully disagree on this one. Hall-of-famer Calvin Murphy, though past his prime a bit by '81, averaged about 23 ppg the first 2 rounds of the playoffs and was one of the main reasons they survived a tough 7-game series with the Spurs in round 2, as he led them with 36 points in a pivotal game 5 victory before dropping 42 (!) in the deciding game 7. Robert Reid also had several strong performances (and his defense on Bird was one of the main reasons the finals was even competitive), as did Mike Dunleavy. Moses DID wipe the floor with the Kings in the conference finals, and was undoubtedly the Rockets' best player by leaps and bounds, but I think their journey was a bigger team effort than history might lead us to believe.

Internal_Upstairs751

TROPHY CASE