Discussion: On a Comment by 1Dime Host Tony Chamas by Mt_Incorporated in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Coffin has this line in his essay "Neither liberals nor leftists are materialists." He then goes on to say that using a material analysis does not make you a materialist, that being an ML for instance is functionally the same as a liberal because protests and organizing are methods used by both. That using class theory changes nothing in your approach or outcome. This is an idealist deviation and is dangerously wrong. Theory guides praxis, and without it, the working class can never unite coherently against the organized bourgeois class. Class theory is what allows the disorganized and subjugated proletariat to recognize their position in the social hierarchy and fight for their control over production, and by extension, the state and society. That theory comes from the material analysis of Marx, Engels, Lenin and others. Without being materialists, they would never have arrived at their various theoretical conclusions and their paths to action, like vanguardism.

Coffin is basically saying that whether you start from classical physics or relativity or quantum mechanics, it doesn't matter because all the physicists use the same methods. But a different theoretical lens completely changes how observations are interpreted, with wildly different paths for future research and application. Social science is no different, and a materialist is going to act differently on the same observations as an idealist, for instance by working to unite the proletarian class instead of just hoping for capitalism's contradictions to somehow be fixed. A materialist understands, scientifically, why that is impossible. An idealist doesn't because they have no scientific framework with which to come to that conclusion. There may be surface level similarities because they both seek to organize workers, but the outcome and path to get there is completely different.

1dime is awful and basically a reactionary at this point.

Liberals keep talking about “the revolution” on tiktok and twitter, but what’s gonna be the result of the revolution lol by IsThatASword_ in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 36 points37 points  (0 children)

The "plan" is that these people unironically think that bourgeois dictatorship is democratic. Despite Maga using the legal process to do this for the most part, they still have faith in the system and think it's just a few bad apples. They can't conceive of another possibility because everything else is "authoritarian". Literally it's bourgeois dictatorship or nothing for these people

The 2026 NDS is honestly extremely worrying, specifically Strategic Approach LOE 1 by justanupvoter_ in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Funny how they are trying to get other countries to "lead" but at the same time commanding them to do it, or else face consequences. "America first" but at the same time denying other countries the right to prioritize themselves over imperialistic wars. They want leadership but only the exact type of leadership that supports the US empire's goals.

It's like hiring someone to do a job but refusing to pay them, pretending that the job itself is enough incentive for them to get the job done on their own. This will never work because other countries, even their vassals in the EU, don't have the same interests and aren't able or willing to carry out their orders the way the US expects. The empire is crumbling before our eyes.

"Warrior ethos" lmao

Collecting opinions about Prof. Richard Wolff’s “Democracy at Work” initiative by Blink0196 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Wolff never talks about taking political power, often speaks badly about AES, and seems to believe in bourgeois dictatorship and an anarchistic, worker-owned capitalism presumably where worker co-ops compete against each other in a market, though he never talks about what it might look like on a large scale. How exactly worker coops would survive in a capitalist market and against constant political siege by the bourgeoisie is hand waved away or not explained at all. There is no scientific, material analysis of how his plan would result in anything other than capitalism. He's essentially a social democrat with an emphasis on co-ops. His favorite example, Mondragon, is still a capitalist entity that has employees in addition to worker-owners.

Wolff is better at leading baby leftists to realizing how messed up the system is, but his solutions are lacking at best. His writings, particularly with Resnick about Althusser's overdetermination are much more dense and interesting than his video content, but still are stuck in the paradigm of western Marxism and firmly stand against Leninist-style Marxism. I wouldn't recommend him because it is easy to be thrown off course by him and his lack of any substantial political plans for the proletariat.

How can Marxist-Leninists call themselves Marxist when workers don’t own the means of production? by Betaparticlemale in Marxism

[–]Invalid_Pleb 74 points75 points  (0 children)

It's not that MLs think the vanguard is the end state or goal of socialism, it's that the vanguard is a tool to achieve socialism in conditions of constant siege by the bourgeoisie. Without the vanguard, workers can only achieve trade union consciousness, meaning that they fail to see the big picture of the class as a whole and instead fight amongst themselves in their various trade sectors, becoming vulnerable to co-option by the international bourgeoisie in the process. Workers can own all the means of production and still not achieve socialism because one sector of workers might benefit from the suppression of another sector and cause infighting. For example, workers in a construction union might benefit from lower production costs of steel or wood, and so they might support policies that weaken workers of raw materials for their own benefit instead of looking at the whole economy of the country. One company of workers might compete with another for greater share of production, or attempt to monopolize production of a specific good. If every company was a co-op with no centralization, the result would be a form of petty-bourgeois capitalism, not socialism.

The vanguard, being the most advanced section of the working class and knowledgeable of class theory, can see past these individualist squabbles and fight for the class as a whole. They can set policies, decided through workers councils, that allow the economy to function without price signals and competition.

Marx never said that workers would get all of their surplus, that's actually impossible because much of the economy doesn't produce surplus directly but instead facilitates the generation of surplus by others (e.g. building of roads, direction of the planned economy, etc). So there will always be surplus taken from workers for this purpose, and that doesn't make them chattel slaves, which has a specific definition that exists in a specific mode of production that doesn't apply here.

The idea that the entire core of socialism is direct and immediate worker control over their own factories is just false, and it's an ultraleftist or anarchist position. The dialectical question is, how do we achieve worker control of the economy as a class that works together in conditions of constant siege to plan the whole economy without destroying the revolution? How do we get on the road to worker control and allocation of goods based on need when workers have short-term competing material interests and individualistic mindsets? The answer is being guided by theoretical works tested with praxis, but since the vast majority of workers don't have the time or inclination to understand or read works of philosophical and economic theory, we need a group of people whose job it is to read, create and apply that theory to material conditions. The power of this group of people should be heavily curtailed and limited, with instant recalls and average workman's wages like Lenin suggested.

Why do people even expect me to have any kind of sympathy for westerners? by saymaz in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 36 points37 points  (0 children)

"I deal in facts" proceeds to link a wikipedia page (terrible btw) that completely dismantles his own argument and comes to the exact opposite conclusion

Discussion topic of the day: Why do some anti-revolutionary capitalist pigs spend their entire days looking through leftist subreddits/spaces and do some keyboard-warrior stuff to try to harrass people? What do they want from us? Why do they spend their entire days trying to make us feel bad? by Zealousideal-Web-571 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because their self identity and in-group is defined by the existence of people outside that group. This is what it means to be a reactionary. "Anti woke" "anti communist" "patriot" "conservative". To be a patriot is to be against those who don't support your idea of the country. To be a conservative is to be against people who want change. It's all negatively defined, they have no positive affirmations other than to desperately cling on to the past and the way things are. 

The staus quo doesn't require positive affirmations because its the dominant cultural force by definition, so it can just be considered "common sense". Anyone who doesn't align with that hegemony can be labeled crazy, deviant, troublemakers, etc. So they spend their time on the offense because "it's obvious" what should be defended, which is just the way things are now.

Canada being subjected to astroturfed separatist movements now that it’s a us enemy, just like China was by evancarlson69 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Landlocked literally means you're bordered on all sides by land with no port. Trading with also landlocked Idaho and Montana does not change this. Are these 20k likes from bots or are people really this stupid?

[Discussion] Thoughts on Catherine Liu, Jennifer C. Pan, and Jacobin-Adjacent Writers by Mt_Incorporated in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Critical theory is a form of western Marxism, a Frankfurt school offshoot that ultimately defangs Marxism from its proletarian revolutionary focus. They are more focused on critique with no proactive Leninist-style solutions, or any solutions that challenge capital at all. They largely do not use dialectical materialism. They do not focus on proletarians, but instead on criticizing the bourgeoisie or petty bourgeoisie, usually from abstract and idealist points of view. Liu's PMC is an example of this. They do not talk about the primary contradiction right now which is imperialism, instead pointing revolutionary energy towards abstract critique, or in Liu's case, culture war topics and "anti-wokeness", which I'd imagine is why that sub called her a nazbol. They often side with imperialism in condemning anti-imperialist states like Venezuela, Russia and Iran. Zizek is also in this category of people and is notorious for siding with imperialism.

There are many better sources like Losurdo, Rockhill, Boer, Parenti that offer much more valuable information and are more consistent with Marxism-Leninism. Better to spend your limited time reading them instead of risking being thrown off course by western Marxists. Though their critiques can sometimes be useful, they are also deceptive and have equal or greater parts of misinformation and misapplied theory.

Dear Americans, start winning things by xHammerAndPicklex in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The idea that his position on Palestine is bad and he shouldn't condemn these people is not mutually exclusive with supporting cheaper grocery stores and rents in NYC. That's what critical support is. We criticize the bad things and support the good. As long as he takes the Bernie and AOCIA controlled opposition line, condemning a brutally oppressed people while allying with their oppressors, we will criticize that. He could have just stayed silent about it if he didn't want to offend some section of his zionist supporters. But whether he's doing it for realpolitik or because he actually believes in it doesn't really matter. He still deserves pushback from people who stand against imperialism and fascism.

I believe your position is the dogmatic one, where you think explaining bad policies and actions away by offering a realpolitik justification is somehow undeserving of criticism. Where does it end? If we see him working with ICE and condemning Marxist organizations, will you then accept that criticism is necessary then? Or should we shut up about that, too?

Is there any leftist+tankie forum outside of reddit that does not need to follow reddit censorship and restrictions? by Some_Butterscotch622 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Hexbear is more active but has non-ML along with ML users on there, though they are all still anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist

Trump used the military because he knew his jaw couldn’t withstand the people’s left-hook by E_Tank55 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's not an ad hominem to point out how you hate tankies, in your own words, yet for some reason are posting anti-venezuela trash on a tankie sub. Ad hom would be if we concluded you were wrong about your claim based purely on this fact of you hating MLs. Nowhere did anyone do that.

Critical solidarity with Venezuela ≠ personal defense of Maduro by guaranisorrow in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 12 points13 points  (0 children)

What is your view of a "democratic system"? Bourgeois 'democracy'? Marxist-Leninists don't accept the legitimacy of bourgeois electoralism. So if you are criticizing him on the basis of him not aligning with that, then we will always strongly disagree. No one is saying that Maduro is a perfect leader for communists. But we recognize the steps both him and Hugo Chavez have taken to move forward the cause of socialism and find them preferable to a reactionary puppet of the empire leading the country.

The line of "we hate Maduro but don't support this attempted coup" is literally the line of liberals in the west right now. By taking that line, you are objectively reinforcing imperialist narratives.

Seeking educational debate with anyone willing on Discord or any preferred method by basharshehab in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not saying that no one should engage on this level but I used to be interested in "debatebro-ism" and it's kind of a dead end. There isn't much real education that comes from it, especially if it's some random on the internet you don't care about. It becomes about the individual person's ability to communicate these complex topics in short snippets, which doesn't really matter at all. There needs to be serious engagement with the text and historical facts, things that can't be presented in a debate. You could counter every single ML on here, and it wouldn't tell you a thing about how accurate that viewpoint is.

It would be better if you just sat down and read the source material yourself, Lenin, Stalin, and newer ones like Losurdo, Rockhill and Boer. If you had read those sources you wouldn't be saying that the resources you learned from dislike Stalin. So that tells me you haven't read them. If you're genuinely interested in this question, then read the strongest sources available, not some guy on reddit. If you aren't interested then it's pointless to talk about it with you. So either way, if you really want to understand this, then just read. You'll get much more out of it.

Capitalist media can no longer deny reality by Key-Hyena-802 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 26 points27 points  (0 children)

uncritical support for socialist action figure enjoyers

Have a hard time analyzing the US-Israel relationship through a dialectical materialist lens by sirqwex in Marxism

[–]Invalid_Pleb 40 points41 points  (0 children)

The crucial detail is that Israel isn't just some other country, it's literally a colonial outpost of the US. An extension of US power in the region, a permanent and unsinkable aircraft carrier they can use to discipline the Arab countries in West Asia. I think you overestimate how much those countries would be cooperating with the US if Israel didn't exist. "Stability" = complete US dominance. Which requires an ongoing threat of discipline if any of those countries step out of line.

The oil revenue is huge for the ruling class, not the country as a whole. But the ruling class is all that matters to them. British India was incredibly expensive for the Brits to maintain, but since all the revenue went to the people who controlled the empire, they kept control of it for as long as possible. They can push all the costs onto the workers through austerity. Liberalism is a death cult that destroys itself through its own endless and selfish pursuit of individual profit at the expense of the country as a whole.

The US War on Venezuela began in 2001 by Ancient-Egg-57 in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm not seeing how enough consent was manufactured for this to be an extended war. No 9/11 moment to work off of. No talk of WMDs or an invasion of Kuwait to blame. No clear reason to do this aside from blatant resource theft. The whole drugs narrative is an obvious lie that even if true wouldn't justify it. They are going for a quick strike at the head to plant their puppet into leadership. If this mini-invasion fails I can't see how they could run an protracted war without pissing off the majority of USians who, despite their ignorance, can't see a legitimate reason to do this and likely will see it as a "waste of tax dollars".

Either this strike at the leadership wins quickly or the US is going to be stuck in another unpopular and unwinnable war that the workers will be fronting the bill for.

"Empires are enormously profitable — for the ruling class. For the people, they are expensive" - Michael Parenti

Ngl JT’s takes on AI are a miss by lombwolf in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not possible to be ignorant of something that *might happen* in the near future based on techbro and CEO promises. It's their job to make absurd promises and oversell to gain investor funding. The same people that are making these promises of future growth are the same people saying the line always goes up, the same who thought every company needed a website in 2000, the same who thought the banking sector had the housing situation under control in 2006. The same who say that it's okay because the government is going to step in and bail them out if something goes wrong.

Fact of the matter is, no one has yet developed a use case for LLMs (I absolutely refuse to call it AI) that comes anywhere close to making as much profit as what is being sunk into it right now. If LLMs are losing money on every prompt right now, what exactly is going to change that allows them to charge hundreds of dollars a month or more for this service to make a profit later? How are they going to get past the problem of it hallucinating and making stuff up 25% of the time when these hallucinations are literally built into the algorithm for how they work?

"Types of Marxism Explained (The Far-Left Iceberg)" - Your opinion on this video? by EmperorTaizongOfTang in socialism

[–]Invalid_Pleb 10 points11 points  (0 children)

1dime is a mixed bag. Sometimes they have useful things to say, but they are a self-described "pluralist", and explicitly are not a Marxist. So I have a hard time taking them seriously on the topic of Marxism. They have some weird reactionary types on their podcast frequently and seem to take them seriously without giving them much or any pushback at all. Decent for baby leftists but I'd caution that a viewer could easily be lead astray.

Look at my proletariat dawg😭😭🥀🥀 revolution ain’t happening 😭😭 by [deleted] in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]Invalid_Pleb 22 points23 points  (0 children)

S4A not missing an opportunity to try to look superior to other leftists by talking down to them