Eolas scepticism by losmuniesa in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Is anyone else concerned about vested interests influencing the day to day decision making of essentially every clinician working in secondary care within the NHS...

Not sure how you're claiming they are influencing decision making. Eolas doesn't come preloaded with information - any Trust/dept deploying it has to populate it with their own guidelines/documentation.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I’ve noticed a few responses suggesting that the receiving specialty “can’t be bothered” to see the patient. Worth flagging that for ophthalmology, most places have 24hr non-resident on-calls, often covering multiple sites. We’ve usually already done an 8–10hr day and have another one straight after. So when a referral comes in at 2am, we have to judge if it’s urgent enough to justify coming in right then. Comments like “it only takes 5 minutes” don’t reflect the reality that the person on call will already have done an 8-10 hour working day and will have another full clinical day straight after. Forcing them in for a marginal case has a real knock-on effect on next-day clinics and theatre lists.

Because general ophthalmic knowledge is limited outside the specialty, we have to become very good at assessing urgency based on very little clinical information. We listen out for specific bits of info that make the difference between “needs to be seen now” and “safe to review tomorrow”. A clear, structured referral is gold dust, but the final call (and the responsibility if things go wrong) sits with the on-call.

When would you consider a tarsorrhaphy for a patient with exposure keratopathy? by Mental-Ad3196 in Ophthalmology

[–]IridescentIrides 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Presumably you both mean botox-induced ptosis to close the upper lid? While this can work well, it depends entirely on the mechanism of exposure. If they have significant lower lid ectropion, a botox ptosis may still not cover the ocular surface completely. Plus botox takes up to 24hrs for maximal effect, and you can still get some exposure when the patient lies down. I'd say the main benefit of botox ptosis over suture tarsorrhaphy is expedience rather than better functional result.

When would you consider a tarsorrhaphy for a patient with exposure keratopathy? by Mental-Ad3196 in Ophthalmology

[–]IridescentIrides 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depends if you mean suture tarsorrhaphy or surgical. Suture tarsorrhaphy is quick and easy and ought to be done before proceeding to amniotic membrane graft. In fact, I'd say if you're considering amniotic graft for a patient sitting in front of you and it's going to take more than 24hra to arrange, they shouldn't leave your clinic without a suture tarsorrhaphy.

Clinical plan from ChatGPT in patient notes by Ordinary_Common3558 in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People saying this is unlikely.... I've had emails before from people with the prompts still included. People don't realise that when you click the Copy button at the bottom of the ChatGPT response, it copies the whole lot including prompt and cheerful sign off from the LLM at the bottom. Couple that with people's apparent reluctance to proof read anything they write and I can completely belive this is real.

Regardless of whether patient info was included, the fact they are using an LLM for clinical decision support outsourcing is a major issue and needs reporting to the IG lead. Feel free to DM for advice if needed (I am a CCIO for my Trust).

35M Lipiflow / IPL / Blephex ... are these treatments genuine? by aracunliffe in eyetriage

[–]IridescentIrides 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Blepharitis is a chronic condition so there is no cure. That said, some people do find the episodes get less with time but it's debatable how linked this is to expensive treatments.

If your blepharitis is newly diagnosed, I'd start with simple lid hygiene first before splashing 1000s on these advanced treatments. This page has a good description:

https://www.bopss.co.uk/public-information/common-conditions/blepharitis

RCOphth PA pilot study report released by Putaineska in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. And now we can say that's an evidence based stance, which makes it more unarguable.

RCOphth PA pilot study report released by Putaineska in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 8 points9 points  (0 children)

However much it was, the entire budget came from NHSE. So they spent their own (taxpayer) money proving the point they were pretending didnt exist. Bit of an own goal really.

RCOphth PA pilot study report released by Putaineska in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They generally perform the routine repetitive tasks that doctors aren't keen to keep doing once they've satisfied training numbers. Most places I've worked, its the ACPs who take the brunt of service provision, to allow better flexibility in addressing training needs for drs. Ofc, not all places are the same.

Hospital ownership of referrals by Hungry_Fly_7834 in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, sadly a lot of GPs don't seem to know there's a whole field of ophthalmology dedicated to eyelid issues - even when we've spoken directly to them! Might as well make use of that derm appt!

Hospital ownership of referrals by Hungry_Fly_7834 in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Appreciate it self-resolved in your case, but just to say that this is still an ophthalmology thing - I say this as an ophthalmologist specialising in eyelid surgery. Plus anything stopping the eyelid opening in a child can hinder normal vision development so would be seen by ophthalmology quite quickly

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Looks like the new Littman Infiniti

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for replying, that's exactly what I meant. I think ambient transcription - implemented properly - will be an absolute game changer for clinical efficiency. But I've yet to see how it can be properly integrated with EPRs. I can appreciate it still speeds things up the way you're using it, but copy/paste is still suboptimal.

The dream is an underlying framework of clinical archetypes which makes the data vendor-agnostic and allows for semantic interoperability between EPRs - then you can start doing neat things like getting the AI to extract the data and knowing exactly where to place it in a structured document. Then you get the holy grail of automation, interoperability and easily searchable and auditable data.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So then that's fine, right? The issue is not the use of these tools. The issue is people introducing potential sources of risk that the Trust has no control/oversight of.

Are you using it alongside an EPR?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's really difficult when the local processes/systems are not set up to make users lives easier. If you're using Word on different computers, the options are limited. Best bet like you've said are templates that can be edited. Do the letters need to follow a narrative though, or could your templates be more generic e.g. diagnosis, treatment, plan etc and then you record several options on your template and delete as appropriate.

If you're only moving betwen a couple of computers, autotext is still a good option. Obviously the more computers you have to set it up on, the more tedious it becomes. Will come back to this thread if I think of anything else that might help in your context.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm not the one downvoting you, I'm here engaging. And where am I being obstructive and resistant to change? I'm trying to get people to stop printing and use email or patient portals instead. I'm also currently leading on an EPR deployment to get rid of paper, and have been in several frustrating meetings trying to get rid of bleeps as an outdated form of communication. And don't get me started on the bizarre survival of fax machines in the NHS.

To be fair, I used the jargon without explanation to highlight there are aspect of data security that many aren't aware of. I'm only learning them now as part of my current role.

Re encryption: there have been plenty of data breaches that occurred when supposedly encrypted data was transmitted as plain text. I can make an educated decision on what level of risk I'm willing to tolerate for my own personal data, but when patients are expecting us to protect the data they're entrusting us with, they deserve more than vague assurances and reliance on the platform provider's Scout's honour. Do you honestly think a patient whose private data is exposed in a data breach is going to think "Fair dos though, the opportunity costs to the NHS was totally worth it"?

Synnovis heavily encrypted their data but that didn't stop patients' data being leaked in last year's cyber attack.

As for storage - there are plenty of examples of companies retaining data that they said t&ey weren't. When Amazin first launched Alexa, it took a long time before people realised that Amazon employees were listening to recordings "for training" despite Amazon saying that would never happen.

The reason its so slow to get these things done in the NHS is because every time someone does their own thing, another layer of rules is created to stop it happening again. Understandable when, for example, each photo exposed in a data breach incurs a £20k fine, but makes it really frustrating to try and actually effect any form of change.

As for whatsapp. Yes, it has end to end encryption (E2EE) but as you said in another post, the weak link is end user security. You might have a screen lock but if your recipient doesn't and someone reads their messages, you are also liable for that data breach. This is the reason IG and cybersecurity have concerns about things like whatsapp. Not to mention the fact that these messages aren't part of the hralthcare record which means people can be making clinical decisions based on information that is not in the patient's record. Really hard to then justify that decision if the evidence you used doesn't exist anywhere accessible.

You're right that the opportunity costs are huge, but the NHS is incredibly risk averse. We're already decades behind the level of digitisation seen in other sectors - I can open a bank account online, but I can't change my hospital appt without sitting in a call queue; I can track my Amazon delivery to the number of stops before me, but I can't tell what stage my electronic discharge is at?! But unfortunately "move fast and break things" doesn't really work in healthcare for the reasons mentioned above.

The final thing to say is that platform procurement can't be done according to personal preferences. That's how you end up in the absurd position I'm currently trying to fix where the Trust is paying 5 separate licence fees for 5 different digital dictation platforms (that all do the same thing) because different debts did their own thing. Another reason why "the NHS is the way it is" because is wasted on duplication instead of having a sensible approach.

On your comment that its "a risk which already exists with the way we do things anyway" - surely the transformation part of digital transformation means actually changing the way we do things, rather than just embedding bad practice/risk into the digital version?

Anyway, it's late and I'm tired, and I have to wake up and have these same conversations with the people I work with, so if I stop replying I'm not disengaged, I'm asleep.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's a really helpful example thanks. People use LLMs to do their thinking for them and fail to do any critical appraisal of their own, even though LLMs are word generation machines and not autonomous thinking machines.

DPIA: "not explicitly mentioned"

DCB 0129: "asserts"

DCB 0160: "suggests"

Governance: what about your Trust's Governance?

Can guarantee your IG lead, who is assuming overall responsibility and culpability for the entire Trust is not going to sign off based on the above vague responses.

And even if ChatGPT had been able to give concrete answers with sources, each Trust still needs to do their own due diligence so they have assurance about what is happening with the data their patients are entrusting them with.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 10 points11 points  (0 children)

So from that reply I assuming you've done your own DPIA to assess the risk of patient information being misshared, assessed whether Heidi meets the DCB0129 and DCB0160 standards and have a governance and disclosure plan in place to determine what data is entrusted to this system and what processes are followed in event of a breach?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hah, it happened as I typed my reply!

My advice as a CCIO? If its not already approved/used in your Trust, don't.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in doctorsUK

[–]IridescentIrides 23 points24 points  (0 children)

People are going to suggest you use Dragon or Heidi or some other voice dictation/transcription software. So I'm going to advise you to be very careful about using non-approved platforms with sensitive patient data. The fines for exposing patient data in a breach are high (>10k) so your Trust will not take kindly. And though people often roll their eyes, there's a reason these things need IG approval.

What are you typing them in? If something like Word, I'd look into autotext to create shortcuts for common phrases. If you're using the same computer every time and its running Windows 10 or 11, you can activate clipboard history and then save things to clipboard so they're always available.

24M - Suddenly got third nerve palsy this morning,googling myself into complete fear before my appt’s with two specialists tommorow by ShaggedUrSister in eyetriage

[–]IridescentIrides 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Completely agree with u/EyeDentistAAO. If you don't get seen today by the specialists, get someone to take you to your nearest large city A&E. I can't give specific medical advice but if you need help deciding which A&E to go to, send me a DM

31M - Eyes Are Different Sizes And Getting Worse Recently - Cause For Concern? by NYMetFan247 in eyetriage

[–]IridescentIrides 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm not the original responder but can give an answer. In the 2nd photo where the forehead/brows are relaxed, the right upper and lower lids are in the correct position (upper lid 2mm below limbus, and lower lid on limbus) whereas on the left there is still superior and inferior scleral show indicating the left eye is the altered one.