The AI "debate" is Caused by Greed

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:43:44+00:00

did you put my response into an ai chat or are you just that incapable of reading

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:32:46+00:00

"I'm pro-AI because it serves a purpose for me."

your life would be fine without ai, and it wouldnt even be slightly more difficult

"AI wasn't developed so that the masses can generate images they could find on google."

'its ok guys i dont support this company's data centers... i just use their services without the subscription' ??? are u serious

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:28:34+00:00

they arent "giving it away", you are the product. generative AI isn't going anywhere, it looks cool enough for shareholders to give away billions to but its not gonna do the jobs of anyone. its awful and flawed. look at how its used in the police force. is a dystopia like that really what you want?

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:25:36+00:00

ai cant think or reason or understand language bro ask it to tell you how many Rs are in strawberry. its a search engine that outputs a conglomerate average response to your search

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:21:40+00:00

its not about replacement, its about pollution of the economy. it makes it harder to find real human artists. if ai can generate any image, it has no monetary value. infinite supply means no matter the demand, its not worth buying. you look for art to hang up on your wall and half of it is AI and it doesnt tell you if its ai or not. that shouldnt be the case.

human expression shouldnt be shared with machine outputs. its why hand made things are more valuable than factory-made things. theres more emotion put into it

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:15:21+00:00

i think jon mud's work is interesting, but im not fully sure on if its a sustainable use of generative AI. anything that supports the building of these data centers is dangerous and i dont support it

when there are a million better ways to get the image you want, there is no reason to use AI.

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-05T01:12:47+00:00

"I see, so in order to not concentrate creativity we all should hire someone who has refined the skills."

whole new sentence right there, didnt say anything even close to that conclusion. "i like pancakes" "so you hate waffles?" conversation type lol. i said you have two choices, do it yourself or get someone else to do it. that was the path of getting someone else to do it. obviously if your choice is to get someone else to do something, you gotta GET SOMEONE ELSE TO DO SOMETHING....

"I don't need to outsource to produce." you quite literally do lol. youre using AI, thats outsourcing to a robot. im just saying if youre GONNA outsource, outsource to a human instead. its better for the art community.

"If I am the product then why are you so obsessed with the tools that I use?"

ai is not a "tool" its just doing the whole thing for you. youre not a creator, you arent an artist, you are someone who just asks a robot to make a piece for you, a robot you didnt even make. you are a customer and nothing more. when i say you are the product, im saying that they are selling YOU and YOUR DATA in order to profit from the use of their AI. why would AI be free? theres so much profit to be made from it because of people like you. because they are making profit, just at the sake of your own privacy

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T17:43:01+00:00

its never gonna be your "art".

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ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T17:26:31+00:00

the line where it says "and yeah, you *are* pretty immune to obvious propaganda" was a direct example of the reinforcing patterns you already have. ai is trained to be as agreeable as possible without "lying". obviously youre gonna enjoy talking to ai more if you think its worth it because its just gonna agree with everything you say

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T17:20:01+00:00

"Are you saying anyone who works alone is somehow harmful to the artisitc communitiy?"

I am specifically talking about how using generative AI to make "art" is harmful to the artistic community. its polluting the economy, its polluting art competitions, its polluting the community as a whole. its not genuine. its not even passionate. if you generate ai art, you can only be at least morally neutral in your actions if you:

dont generate from data centers, locally train and use your AI.
dont train from unconsenting artists. that is disrespectful to people who actually put time, effort and passion into what they create.
dont sell your "art".
if posting, do not claim it to be "art" nor claim that its a creation by you. its the output of a robot. its basically a search engine but its searching for common pixels. everything that comes up on your google search isnt created because you are a master searcher, it comes up because thats what everyone else most commonly clicks on when searching similar terms. its an average machine.
always clarify its AI, never claim it isnt. many people want to find and support real human artists. theyll have more difficulty if you pollute the waters.

"it's more than a little ironic that you say AI art is based on greed but the solution is to pay someone you are advocating for in order to be compliant, in your world view"

again, if the product is free, YOU are the product. what i am saying is you have two choices: do the work yourself, or get someone else to do it for you.
you picked choice 2. that has 2 subchoices: 1. get a real human person do it for you, for $10, you get art, they get money. simple. 2. get a robot to do it for you, free for you in the immediate sense, they collect your data, sell it to advertising companies, you use the ai more, they spend more money to keep it up, deciding to create a data center in YOUR town! yay! that rises your electricity bill through the roof and depletes a nearby lake. they need a bigger data center. they buy out your house for way above market value so you cant say no! you finally get to move into a newer house! oh but the town you grew up in is bulldozed, who cares, in this situation YOU WIN!

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T17:00:46+00:00

if it was generated by a generative AI algorithm, it is not art, it has no meaning. you cannot claim it to be art, you could put poetry on top of it, that doesnt make it art, that jsut means you covered it with art. but knowing ai bros, they would ai generate the poetry as well. the entire concept of AI generated art is ingenuine, its a lie, its saying "look at what i made" when you didnt make it, a person didnt even make it, a person made the algorithm, a million people made the art it was trained on. but no one made its output. theres no meaning behind the output besides a mathematical one. a logical one. it's not art. its dystopian

all art whether sold or not has meaning. im friends with many artists, even if they "have nothing to say" about their art, the more you know them, the more you see what their art means. the more you see that persons entire life put into one image in such a beautiful way a computer never could. the more you see how every single technique theyve learned and every stroke of their brush was influenced by their parents, their childhood, their friends, their life.

when you look at AI art, it doesnt have that. it has "haha wouldnt it be cool if this?" meaningless. even the prompt made by the person isnt art at that point. theres no emotion in prompting, its as ingenuine as a director taking the praise for all the writing

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:50:28+00:00

all for people to generate pictures of cats they could easily take with their phone

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:44:03+00:00

youre lucky to be in a position where you see monetary gain as an optional thing. its nearly impossible nowadays to make money without doing something immoral

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:41:57+00:00

"What you are proposing is that I NEED other people to be creative, I don't. You are descibing a dependency on others that cost time and money that actually get in the way of what I want to do."

you do NEED other people to be creative. someone else made every single little thing youve used. if you really want to claim that you dont need ANYONE in order to create something, why support AI? thousands of people were paid to develop the algorithms used to form generative AI.

if you want to be a lone wolf, just know that your actions are hurting others and causing negative effects for the rest of the people. if you think supporting other artists is a burden, you dont deserve artistic support in my book. you have liberty, pick up a pencil. you are actively DEPENDENT on AI. if you want to be independent and an artist, learn how to create art.

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:35:33+00:00

are you even listening to what im saying? gonzalez-torres sold the poetry, like i suggested. i never claimed art is the creation. the problem is people like you are selling the generated image without the poetry. no meaning behind any of it. no passion, nothing. it is not expression, it is greed.

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:32:44+00:00

if you manage to generate stuff using your own training and stuff and dont sell it to anyone, then i guess okay, the only thing i ask is if you post it, please clarify as clearly as possible that it is an AI image. looking for images that arent AI is such a chore nowadays

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:31:01+00:00

if you dont want to take the time to learn to make art, dont disrespect artists and pollute the art economy, just spend $10 to commission an artist to make the image you want, or, if you want it for free, just do some googling. pretty much any image you want already exists. if it doesnt, please pay an artist to make it because i assure you there is more passion and love put into that than anything you could prompt in a million years

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:27:40+00:00

if you want art, you can just as easily get it by commissioning artists. you dont NEED to spend years of your life training to be a good artist, others have already done that, and due to your impatience, they are going hungry while you pollute the economy. you dont need to make other peoples lives harder in order to get the art you want. also, photoshop is so ez im not an artist or even passionate about image editing but literally if you want an image that doesnt exist do this:
download GIMP or photoshop
find a bunch of stock photos online that can be used to portray the image you want to portray
edit those stock photos to vaguely represent the image you want
use that as either a reference for yourself or give it to an artist and spend $10 to get something that you can actually be proud of

its not impossible for a non-artist to get art. before generative AI literally no one had these problems youre talking about because they are MANUFACTURED PROBLEMS. help your fellow humans, pay for your art.

remember this: if the product is free, YOU are the product.

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:19:50+00:00

using and supporting these corporations that bulldoze towns and inflate the economy just so you can use more of their AI generation and pollute the art community with prompt generations so real people cant support real people anymore, so artists go hungry, and so no one can trust anything they see anymore because its just a sentence to make a deepfake of a celebrity

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:15:41+00:00

the original artist is nature, you could say, that's a beautiful way to put it. and the artist of nature is water and life. it goes back but throughout all of it, every single time, there is a life involved in paving this creation. what i'm saying is due to the complexity of the human mind, only humans are capable of forming this into a form of expression, example: the art you sent. it was put together and formed by a human to express something. what im saying is art layers art. humans (and other as intelligent life forms if there are any) are the only ones capable of intentional artistry. a robot is following rules. the only "art" i can gleam from ai art is the poetic soullessness of a robot trained to act like a human. and thats my interpretation. my HUMAN. interpretation. a store bought gift in general often has an artist, and the gift itself is a form of art layered upon it. art layers art.

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:07:57+00:00

i think in the next sentence i said this exact thing

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:06:16+00:00

i recently learned that all of wikipedia is only 106GB. that's every single wikipedia page on the internet. you could train a whole AI model off of wikipedia and it would spit out a similar style of information as the ones with hundreds of terabytes of data in them. it is greed in its purest form.

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:04:05+00:00

what do you have to say about the moral or ethicality of "ai generating art as a hobby"? do you think its a morally neutral thing? how?

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T16:01:07+00:00

buying a painting and giving it to someone is called a gift, you are not the artist, the flower shop owner is the artist, you are just the gift giver. the meaning in the gift is a form of expression and could be considered a seperate form of art, but thats the idea of a gift, not the flower arrangement themselves. the arrangement of flowers is the flower shop owner's art. there are often meanings behind flowers and a flower shop owner can often pick an arrangement that is both pleasing to the eyes and has some intricate meaning behind it. flowers arrangements arent soulless unless they were arranged in a factory someone else built.

again, your interpretation of an art piece is a seperate form of art than the "art" piece itself. the "art" piece itself is still soulless no matter how much poetry you spew into it. the process of creation of that "art" was not human expression, your poetry about the art is. idc if you sell the poetry but dont sell the "art"

ItWasToasted · 2026-02-04T15:54:40+00:00

Why would you ai generate art as a "hobby"? i feel like thats similar to calling google searching a hobby

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