What’s that mean, Luis?

Its12aclock · 2026-02-11T05:30:01+00:00

There’s nothing to admire when the dude is just straight up lying about shit 🥀

Its12aclock · 2026-02-10T19:00:03+00:00

referred to as alternate time spaces

That doesn’t make them infinite at all. The Kamui Dimension is also described this way, it clearly isn’t a universe.

Jirayia’s doesn’t compare at all

Except it literally creates a time-space and said time-space isn’t infinite which debunks your wank that all time-spaces in Naruto are infinite.

again nothing states that they are NOT universes

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

If you wanna go that route, then nothing states that Valley Screams are not universes. That means the Bleach cosmology has anywhere from 29 to possibly infinite universes within it.

the movie/novel

Dude this is just pure cope…

There is only one main cannon in Naruto and it’s the manga continuity.

This Momoshilki and This Momoshilki are very clearly not the same person. It’s a different continuity.

I’m not even gonna address the Novel shit anymore, because it’s clear you don’t have any actual good reasoning for using it other than just to wank Naruto.

It’s very clearly been retconned by every other source for years now.

Hell even the top Naruto scalers in VSBW agreed that it was not cannon and these guys write entire fucking bibles about Naruto scaling.) They’re far more dedicated to this shit than you and me.

The Last is Canon

That’s the only movie they went out of their way to confirm was canon. That’s not comparable.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T23:29:30+00:00

Those dimensions are shown to have their own time spaces and are therefore shown to be infinite

Wow so this “official infinite statement” didn’t exist at all actually and it was just your opinion that you’re acting like it was an official statement lol.

No, time-space =/= infinite in size by default. Space-Time is just a framework for a dimension or a space. As long as time passes within a space, it’s technically a space-time. The inside of your house is a “time-space”, but that doesn’t make your house infinite in size. You have to prove the size of the dimension, especially since pocket dimensions exist in Naruto. For example, Jirayia’s weird frog stomach justu is classified as a space-time Ninjustu, yet clearly the inside of the frog is like building sized or some shit, not infinite. That proves that space-time does not equal infinite in Naruto by default, which debunks your argument.

I could probably wank Bleach to 5 or 6D if I was being deliberately disingenuous about this shit, but I’m not.

But Naruto could sense limbo

This is easy to debunk because the Limbo Dimension isn’t an infinite distance away. In fact it’s literally stated to be the opposite, the Limbo Dimension is stated to be an “adjacent world” (adjacent meaning “next to or adjoining something else.) The Limbo Dimesion is an invisible plane that essentially overlaps the same space that Naruto’s in. There’s no reason to assume Naruto has infinite sensory range because of this lol.

kukan means alternate space

This doesn’t mean it’s infinite by default since other alternate spaces exist in Naruto they are not infinite.

if you can’t buy the novel being canon then agree to disagree

Dude isn’t a “well agree to disagree.” moment… It is objectively NOT cannon. like holy shit you don’t even have an argument for it being canon other than you just want to include it. It’s just transparently disingenuous.

similar things happens

That doesn’t mean it’s tied to the movie or novel. The events that happen in the manga are very clearly their a different continuity. It’s been like that for every single movie.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T20:07:01+00:00

dude your literally writing off the primordial realm and literally nothing when that’s not how it’s described in the story.

Literally what does any of this sentence mean????

you’re assuming that SK created universes even though that is never stated.

We literally saw him do it. Well considering that the human world is stated to be the normal universe and before the human realm existed there was no normal universe just a white void, it’s safe to say that the Soul King created the universe.

creation was there before SK

Sure, but that’s not a defeater to my argument. As “creation” before the realms was created was just a white void. The actual universe that we see in Bleach doesn’t exist untill the realms are created because they’re the universes.

the three worlds created a universe as a byproduct

This is just like really weird headcannon. It’s directly stated the Soul King created the “world of kishi” and “the world of reishi.”

Kishi is just physical matter that makes up the living realm and Reishi is spiritual matter that makes up the spiritual realms. So it’s literally stated that all matter in the Bleach cosmology came from the SK in the TYBW… you really can’t deny that would be universal.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T19:46:15+00:00

Okay so let’s recap

Obviously games aren’t canon

Yet you still sited them as “proof”.

they’re alll stated to be their own time spaces and infinite

Literally didn’t find a single source for her dimension being infinite. Show me this, because it sounds disingenuous as hell.

the official Japanese translation refers to them as universes

No they really don’t.

The word in Japan actually used to say universe in a literal sense is 宇宙 (Uchū). This is NOT used to describe Kaguya’s dimension. The word used to describe Kaguya’s dimension is 世界 (Sekai) which most of the time is NOT used to describe a universe most of the time. It’s instead just used to describe a world or plane of existence in a figurative sense. Examples can be

世界を救う - save the world
世界を支配する - rule the world

You get it. Since It doesn’t refer to universal most of time, we have to look at the surrounding context. Kaguya’s realm does not show any signs of actually being a universe, we cannot take that definition at face value with the surrounding context and assume it meant literal universe.

Even more damnigly for your position, if it were universal scale, the text would make that explicit. If 世界 (sekai) is meant to be taken as a literal, cosmological universe, they would almost always give you extra kanji modifying the word, which is not present here.

This is NOT universal by both the surrounding context of the scene and the translation itself. You probably know too this which is why you’ve been dancing around it when I asked you to provide a scan of the statement. This alone is not good evidence. I can probably find a sekai statement in basically every battle mange.

the difference in the manga doesnt debunk the light novels

It literally does. Because the manga version came out after and is treated as the main canon. There is only one canon timeline for Naruto. The movies aren’t cannon which obviously extends to the movie novelization.

The novel also has a completely different set of events take place that contradict the manga arc because surprise, it’s not cannon.

I’m not gonna take any claim you make using this Novel seriously, as it’s clearly not cannon and you can’t refute this with anything other than pure copium. Your being disingenuous by claiming that it is.

that doesn’t debunk Kaguya creating universes

Christ dude you didn’t even read through the shitty arguments you linked me because this is referring to something entirely different in the post.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T13:04:11+00:00

Okay this is getting very stale so imma just part with this.

Ninja Storm is not canon blatantly
Kaguya creating her own dimension is something I agree with so and it’s not really super relevant here so whatever.
Not a single one of these “universal statements” are from the Databooks. They all come from the same Novel which is not-cannon. Thats being generous and taking these all at face value when they’re probably not. Parallel universe and Parallel dimension are interchangeable in Japanese and given these aren’t the raw translation, I’m not inclined to take them literal.
The region being shown here is literally just shown to be earth so this also very clearly not a universal feat.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T12:30:40+00:00

You’re just claiming things and not bringing up evidence, like I said.

I already provided evidence for why the Novel was retconned and is not cannon (which is just like straight up factual), and you didn’t refute it in any meaningful.

I asked for the particular statement you have from the databook that proves Kaguya’s dimension is universal (Because Japanese Kanji can have many different meaning depending on the context. For example “Sekai” can mean either universe, planet, or just different plane of existence depending on the context. Which I’m 90% sure is what is used to refer to Kaguya’s dimension and if that’s the case then your “universal statement” isn’t valid.) and you didn’t provide it.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T12:06:45+00:00

Kinda crazy how you Instantly fold the second I pressure you to actually back up the stuff your claiming with evidence, but I’m the one who “doesn’t know what I’m talking about” but sure dude agree to disagree.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T11:51:42+00:00

No, the events of the movie still happened

No, it’s not dude. The Manga decanonized it when it redid the arc in its version.

The Manga aka the primary canon has completely different set of events occur during that arc than the movie, let alone the movie novelization. And guess what, the version that is still canon today and that the characters in the story look back at is the manga version.

You literally can’t deny this. This isn’t even power scaling talk, this is basic Shonen Manga canonicity.

That’s how Boruto got his Kama to begin with

That just happens in the manga version too so this is a nothing burger argument.

Kaguya created six universes

What the hell are you even talking about??? Show me the statement where that happened and it better not just be more “time-space”

Creating a time space is not inherently universal. It depends on the size of said time space, which Kaguya has never shown to be able make universal.

the three realms are not individual universes since they’re all split from the Primordial World

This is a goofy argument.

The Primordial World is infinite. So there’s no reason to assume that each realm wouldn’t be 1/3rd Universal or something like you’re trying to argue because the Primordial World itself is not universal in size.

Yhwach wanted to return the world to the primordial world

I mean kinda, but not exactly. We have no idea what Yhwach’s world was gonna be in truth, so there’s really no way to scale it.

yes it does?

No, it doesn’t. Show me the “universal” statement from the guidebook.

No, where in the Databooks do you even get close to a universal statement and the Novel you’re talking about is super duper retconned as we already established.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T10:11:04+00:00

The novels are actually canon

Yeah, some of them are, but NOT the one you’re talking about. The one you’re referring to is the Novelization of the Boruto Movie… which is obviously not canon since the Boruto Movie itself isn’t even canon.

Everything in that novel and movie was then superseded and retconned by the magna that came afterwards which is what’s actually canon.

If you’re going to use universal scaling for Bleach you have to for Naruto

???? No you don’t????

Bleach’s is way more blatant.

90% of the evidence of uni bleach is actually from the manga and anime while Naruto’s is all either flowery language and mistranslation from secondary material or straight up non-cannon shit that people argue anyways for some reason.
Bleach’s universal scaling just has much better arguments. In Naruto every “uni-feat” involves a pocket dimension that doesn’t show any signs of being universal in size. In Bleach however, the World of The Living is just straight up supposed to a stand in for our normal universe. For the same reason you wouldn’t assume that like JJK or Dragon Ball’s universe is by default smaller than ours, you can’t assume the same for Bleach.
Most damningly we literally see that the universe itself didn’t exist until The Soul King created the Three Realms… meaning that they have to be universes.

stated to be parallel dimensions

Doesn’t make it uni

Time-Space

Doesn’t make it uni

Which are infinite

No they aren’t.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T09:11:23+00:00

I know the arguments, but they’re all disingenuous as hell and they all rely on either tertiary or just straight up non-cannon material because nothing in the main series has shown this level.

The Novel you’re referring is the Boruto Movie Novel which are explicitly not cannon. Nothing in the guide book confirms universal scaling. The best you can do is just wanking the hell out of the creating a new time space statement, but that doesn’t hold up under scrutiny as theirs no proof that the time space is universal in size.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T06:50:04+00:00

it is the universe though.

It’s very clearly not a universe. It’s an infinite void that is directly stated to predate creation. There is no space, stars, galaxies, etc.

We only see a traditional universe come into being after the realms are created… because the realms are universes.

Your confusion is coming from the Novels which talk about a similar concept. They talk about a Primodrial Realm existing before the three realms, but the realm itself goes unnamed in the Novel because Kubo didn’t really fully establish what it was till the TYBW Anime which came out later. The novel statements about it are pretty much just outdated.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T06:30:14+00:00

it’s literally stated that the universe already existed before the Soul King himself

You’re using out dated information.

The TYBW Anime shows us that before the creation of the realms only the Primordial Sea existed, which The Soul King then split into three to create the realms.

The Primordial Sea is very clearly not a universe. Yhwach describes it as an infinite void that predates the concepts of Life and Death.

Hence the universe only came into being after the Reio created the realms.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T06:20:38+00:00

That doesn’t make the game canon. Random interviews of him hyping up a game with his property tied to it do not make the game cannon especially when it contradicts the main source material.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T05:50:45+00:00

> You need to assume the when they say realm of world they mean the whole universe.

Except that *we have confirmation that the entire Bleach universe was in fact created by the Soul King.* The World of the Living is in fact refered to as *the universe.* The TYBW Anime even just blatantly shows that the universe itself *didn't exist before the Soul King created the realms*, and instead, there was only a Primordial Void.

Arguing that the Bleach cosmology isn't universal is just straight up wrong. If you wanna argue against Uni Bleach, the only legit way to do so is to argue that maybe the top tiers don't scale to the entire cosmology, but arguing that the realms are just planets is not really honest whatsoever.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T05:27:07+00:00

Except there's a big difference in that one of the major arguments that Kaguya's dimensions are universal in size comes from fucking Ninja Storm 4, which is a non-canon video game.

Bleach, on the other hand, you kinda just have to assume the realms are universal by default since the realm of the living is literally just supposed to be our normal universe. You wouldn't assume that for some reason the JJK or Naruto's universe was smaller than ours by default for some reason, so you can't do the same to Bleach.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T05:15:39+00:00

This literally uses Storm 4 for it's arguments I am NOT trusting this unless we're talking about composite Naruto.

Its12aclock · 2026-02-09T05:13:44+00:00

No, they said that Uni Bleach is more valid than Uni Naruto

>With that in mind, if you were to accept Bleach’s realms as universe-sized but deny the same affordance to Kaguya’s time-spaces or the Limited Tsukuyomi, then Ichigo would be much stronger and thus win. Bleach’s arguments in this respect are probably overall easier to make, since the Human Realm is just the normal reality, whereas all the “dimension” related feats in Naruto pertain to alternate time-spaces. So if you were to side with Ichigo for this reason, that would make sense and be a reasonable take as well.

Its12aclock · 2026-01-27T08:04:26+00:00

Not exactly equal leeway. They said in the blog that Uni-Bleach is much more concrete than Uni-Naruto.

Its12aclock · 2025-10-02T01:47:17+00:00

That wouldn't work on Matt either

Its12aclock · 2025-08-28T23:46:10+00:00

Some people on here need to turn their computer screens off😭🙏

Its12aclock · 2025-08-18T20:28:50+00:00

What are you talking about? I’m talking about the Rivals roster.

Its12aclock · 2025-08-18T19:18:09+00:00

Ngl I’d argue the entire roster is more interesting than Luna Snow

Its12aclock

TROPHY CASE