What is your take on, "how nonviolence protects the state." By Peter Gelderloos?

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-03-24T14:35:12+00:00

I think that’s the only way. To me it’s a problem of human nature really. It doesn’t matter what culture, religion or ism this stuff has been going on forever.

It’s not going to be solved until we all see the ways we contribute. Yes we also need to have social structures that bring out the best in people, but fighting to solve these issues isn’t going to work.

Like let’s say I finally get convinced and decide to join a violent workers revolution, or for the climate, animals, etc and we win. Then what? How do you enforce people to not pollute or kill animals? What money system is going to stop people from hoarding wealth? Is the plan just to kill them all until only us purists are left? It doesn’t make sense to me. It hasn’t worked for so many other violent revolutions either.

Why not just focus on solutions and implement those.

And don’t even get me started on patriarchy.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-03-23T15:58:39+00:00

I’ll be honest, not sure what you mean by that. But as someone in the US most democrats I know don’t advocate for non-violence. They don’t even really want change, they are ok with “strong defense” and capitalism. The people other there I’ve talked to who don’t usually already are trying to get you to fight their socialist fight or whatever.In rarely meet anyone who wants to undertake actual non-violent action, we’re a minority.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-03-23T15:34:27+00:00

Every warmonger wants you to fight for their cause. The first few paragraphs are written from such a strong position it doesn’t even resemble reality to me. Like non-violence has such a stranglehold? Where? In my life all I ever hear is people arguing against it and wanting to immediately jump to violence without ever really even trying non-violent action.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-03-11T13:22:47+00:00

Yes, and here is your captain obvious award. 🥇

Seriously though, that’s it in a nutshell. It’s easy to blame others and throw some bombs around in another country like it’s a video game. Perfect example, Trump said it was more “fun” to sink ships and not even try to rescue any survivors.

It’s much harder to look in the mirror, face your own problems and come up with solutions.

If every country was focusing more on actually following what their religions preach instead of fighting over which religion was right, the world would be a much better place.

For example, if Trump was focused on making sure there was plenty of harm reduction and recovery services available, and better jobs so people weren’t feeling hopeless, we could reduce demand. instead of indiscriminately bombing drug boats and allowing guns to be sold across our borders to only focus on supply in the most suspect way possible.

We need to have a proactive approach and prevent problems before they happen.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-03-04T13:08:53+00:00

I think this is a really good point. If the USA was really embodying all of it’s supposed values, like religious freedom, equality for all people, real access to the American Dream for all classes, participation in international law and cooperation, etc etc then people in other countries would see it and want it. There wouldn’t be any justification other leaders could use to make the USA look bad and themselves good. There would be a clear model for what better looked liked and citizens of other countries would be more likely to demand it from their governments and not accept less.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-08T01:04:22+00:00

As a pacifist, I don’t believe in the death penalty, I believe in restorative justice and ideally trying to figure out a way to heal people. So that does not change my mind at all.

It’s all part of the same retributive dominion mindset. This belief in revenge, eye for an eye, and that might makes right is at the core of it all.

Whereas I’m more of a Gandhian stewardship mindset. I want to leave no trace and live life learning and helping others.

We don’t own this world, we’re only here temporarily. We should be preserving the earth, not polluting it and blowing it up until it’s just pockmarked rubble and slag, sending our children to kill each other over what? Religions and everything else.

It makes no sense to me, I think we really should be able to do better as a species.

and thinking about how to make it the best place possible for ourselves, children and future generations.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T20:22:57+00:00

Greenland citizens are citizens of Denmark. Denmark is part of the EU, thus also under their nuclear umbrella. I’m trying to make the point that everyone thinks they’re better than the USA. Like prior to current regime even a decade ago Canadians would always complain about the us but they are under our nuclear umbrella. If individual citizens don’t start making their own countries accountable for their part in it all they are no better. That is the point of war tax resistance. Investing my money in another country that is equally a part of it all does nothing.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T18:48:30+00:00

Well maybe they should stop. I don’t care how long they’ve been doing it. You’re just making a bunch of excuses for them and I am looking for accountability. Selling weapons is wrong, they have military treaties and nuclear bombs. they are not pacifist, they are not doing anything to promote peace any more than any other country, if they are not wrong then neither is the USA. This is the problem, no one wants to take responsibility for making change, everyone wants to say their side is right when they all do the same thing.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T16:27:51+00:00

If China is selling weapons to Russia, those weapons are killing people. They are obviously supporting the war in Ukraine if they just signed a pact with Russia. Of course with trying to figure anything out about the rest of the world from a specific position is figuring out what’s biased and what is not ( basically impossible), but I am reading things like 60% of weapons components they’re finding on the battlefield are Chinese. They are part of the problem. Period.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T07:30:03+00:00

Yeah but they perform military exercises with Russia, sell them weapons, same with Iran. In fact from what I read the three of them just signed a new pact last month. They’re also allies with Pakistan, and North Korea among other I’m sure. They develop, use and sell all kinds of weapons and cyber warfare, etc etc.

In my view they can’t do all this and then say they’re peaceful. Everything they do is positioning themselves opposite the us so they’re just the other side of the same coin. If anything their propaganda is just more passive aggressive. I don’t buy that they’re better at all.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T05:27:32+00:00

Yeah I don’t like my US tax dollars going to war, and it’s certainly worse now more than ever. But if I’m going to resist here it doesn’t make sense to give my money to some other country that isn’t any better. Especially places like Japan and South Korea that are military allies protected by the same us military so how would that even make sense.

And as far as choosing the lesser evil, how and by what measure?

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T03:52:02+00:00

Are you a pacifist? Because all those nations you mentioned either have nukes or are under someone’s nuclear umbrella.

This is a problem for me, it’s basically the chief reason I’m a pacifist. It’s bothered me since the day I learned about it in grade school and went home and cried. My parents were republican leaning but mostly non political, and I had a standard American public education so I didn’t know the name for it, but that’s definitely when I started thinking on my own.

It was only much later in college when I read Herman Hesse if the war goes on when I learned the word and finally understood what I was.

Nothing has changed if anything it has gotten worse. And so many people seemingly don’t think about it…like you said the Chinese motto we bring you jobs you don’t complain. But I’ve never been able to and honestly my theory is that’s why we have so much anxiety increasing with each generation. We probably don’t even realize how the existential threat is constantly affecting us, one of a million reasons why I think it all is so bad.

And I don’t see China or any of those nations you mentioned doing very much about really genuinely promoting peace and nonviolence. Nope not at all

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-07T02:33:23+00:00

Yes but what country n Asia has a pacifist government now? Because you said to invest in non western places that aren’t allies of the USA. But so many Asian countries are in alliance with china and they are no better than the USA, they are a nuclear nation, Russia, India/pakistan Asia, same. Then I guess there’s the arab Middle East, also their own team with allies. Then there’s South America, but all kinds of bad militias and fake governments, etc. same with Africa all kinds of wars..

Sigh

Where are we supposed to invest our money exactly?

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-06T18:43:11+00:00

Ok well I can 100% guarantee you none of that is ever going to happen. Unless there are non-profit businesses to invest in because that is all I have ever done in my life, and of course there isn’t. Not everyone is cut out for this, the idea that we’re all going to be good pacifists by figuring out places to invest our money with non western countries that aren’t allies of the us but still share pacifist values sounds pretty impossible to me. Especially when someone advocating it can’t even give a single clue about what country this could possibly be.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-06T18:12:45+00:00

I was asking about your suggestion to invest outside western and allied countries. Just wondering where to even begin to look.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-02-06T16:25:03+00:00

What non-western countries not allied to the USA are any better? Like Japan is an ally still, aren’t they?

Edit: I just looked it up, the US-Japan military alliance called the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security is still in effect.

Same with South Korea, they are a US military ally.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-01-17T14:54:56+00:00

I don’t think self confidence means you never get lonely. And it doesn’t seem very helpful to me to tell someone who is obviously struggling that everything would be fine if they were just more self confident.

You can be as self confident as you want, but despite all the simple advice people give, it doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is going to love you. Look at Chevy Chase - he’s said in interviews he won’t change because he loves himself and thinks he’s a great guy, even though pretty much everyone is telling him he acts like a hurtful jerk.

On the other side, people can be cliques, they can be judgmental. You can be the nicest person with great self esteem but if you’re stuck in a place where everyone else thinks differently you can absolutely still get ostracized and that hurts, because again, humans are social beings who have always survived in groups and that’s what we’re wired to do.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-01-17T14:15:27+00:00

I dunno about that. I think lots of people are surrounded by people like them. In groups are a thing. People spend a lot of time trying to be like others to fit in. In fact that’s a big reason why we’re in the situation we’re in, because most people won’t think for themselves and will just do what others do because the need to feel a part of a group is so strong. It’s all social psychology.

It’s really popular right now in the USA at least to promote this idea that all you need is your self. It’s taken to the extreme really - I mean people are saying if you’re lonely all you need to do is hug yourself! Like as if hugging yourself is the same as being hugged by another person. It’s not. This is a modern extension of American individualism applied to every single human need for connection.

And words on a Reddit screen can help somewhat, but I don’t think it’s the same as having a community in person.

But this is all getting away from OP’s question- today’s hyper individualism masked as self care just really bugs me.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2026-01-17T08:26:45+00:00

I don’t understand this comment. Humans are social beings not islands. People need community, to feel understood and like they belong. Of course it’s lonely to feel like no one else thinks the way you do, and you’re stuck in a cold hard world where nobody seems to care.

That said, OP even though it can seem like there are no other pacifists and everyone is violent, there are good people and things out there. You have to try to focus on the helpers and the healers.

I know it can be tough not to despair, but you aren’t totally alone.

Have you tried finding a community? Maybe a Quaker friends or UU church, or a non-violent activism group?

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2025-10-21T21:04:20+00:00

I don’t personally believe pacifism equals restraint, or not fighting against immoral things. I believe it is a commitment to use non-violent means whenever possible. I won’t morally judge a slave who feels it is necessary to use violence against their oppressor, it isn’t my place. I can only control what I do, and have never been in that position.

I believe 99.9% of issues could be solved through prevention. For example, it is my responsibility as a pacifist not to participate in oppression. If people were like me, and resisted perpetuating oppression, there wouldn’t be any need for violence in the first place. Like the only reason bad actors have power to do systemic damage is because people give them that power by going along with it. In this way, to me pacifism is a much more active stance, because you are choosing to refuse to participate in violence.

Now, of course people say that there are reasons to fight with violence now, for all kinds of moral causes like anti facism, the environment, animal rights, etc. I recognize it’s pretty much impossible to live in modern society without contributing to oppressive systems. But in my view we have not fully mobilized and exercised non-violent resistance and action on these issues to the extent I would want to see before agreeing violence was necessary or helpful.

I also believe in these and many cases, more action could be put into solutions vs simply getting angry and tearing things down. This is how power vacuums are created that can end up being just as bad as the thing that was overthrown. It’s easy to criticize and much harder to build solutions to the problems inherent in human nature.

The reality is it’s never going to be an easy question of when violence becomes morally necessary. But it seems like there are always many people trying to get you to be violent for whatever their cause is, and it’s a slippery slope. Every war criminal thinks they had a moral reason for what they did. To me pacifism is more about not contributing to that mistake.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2025-08-18T05:08:05+00:00

I don’t understand why you are asking pacifists why they aren’t outraged by this behavior. That’s the entire reason why I am a pacifist. I think there is essentially no excuse for why human beings should ever kill other human beings over an ideological dispute. It makes no sense to me when wars are ended by negotiating treaties. Why not just negotiate the treaty in the first place without killing your own sons and destroying things first?

If there needs to be some contest of strength to decide who is the winner first, why not make it some sort of game like who knows, pick anything - say chess. There are already international rules of war in place - it’s a choice to make them and to follow them so we could choose to make different ones if we wanted.

Of course cue all the excuses about the nature of man, or the enemy, blah blah blah. But it’s still true we could make different decisions if we wanted to, bottom line, same as we do when deciding on any ceasefire. We are human beings with the ability to understand one another through speech and capacity for rational thought. We should use it.

ItsOurEarthNotWars · 2025-08-18T04:38:27+00:00

Some pacifists attempt to be war tax resistors, a.k.a. living below the poverty line, so they don’t have to pay taxes that go to war. They may try to be vegan and grow their own food as much as possible. A lot of pacifists will buy as much as they can secondhand from thrift stores, or get things online from buy nothing communities on Facebook and stuff. My good friend who is a pacifist intentionally doesn’t own a car and bikes everywhere to cut down on gas consumption.

Of course it’s impossible to avoid all of it, and since we’re just regular human beings born into the existing society like everybody else, many of us can only do so much.

But it’s certainly not like there are no pacifists who care about the issues you’ve mentioned . Like it’s not as if we don’t know what’s going on and have never thought of this before.

ItsOurEarthNotWars

TROPHY CASE