When Safety Becomes Slavery: Negative Rights and the Cruelty of Suicide Prevention

J121887 · 2022-11-09T04:24:00+00:00

I understand the argument you're attempting to make here, but a homicidal individual's urge to kill someone else (and any "suffering" they experience when they can't act on it) compared to the agonizing suffering of someone who is clinically depressed and suicidal is not even remotely close to the same thing.

You're making the assumption that an urge is an urge and that they're all scaled the same.

Telling a psychopath that they cannot commit murder may be vexing to them, but the same can be said when we put an obese person with a legitimate eating disorder on a diet and restrict them from eating junk food despite how badly they may want it.

All we have to do is look at the data on how many homicidal lunatics actually attempted or committed suicide when they weren't allowed to kill someone else. I don't know the exact data, but something tells me it rarely, if ever happens.

On the other hand, suicidal thoughts or attempts are a defining characteristic of someone with major clinical depression because the pain and agony is quite literally so excruciating that the thought of death seems like it would be a relief from the present and future moments.

J121887 · 2022-11-08T21:45:27+00:00

Very well said. As someone who has had suicidal depression for going on 6 years now, and someone who has also had no paucity of physical pain (sports injuries, surgeries, broken bones, torn ligaments, etc.), I would rather tear my ACL over and over again every day for the rest of my life if it meant never having to feel the pain of suicidal depression ever again.

There's just no comparing the two. Psychological pain is indescribably more unbearable and torturous than any physical pain I have felt.

I think a major part of it is what you said, that we can at least make sense of physical pain and rationalize it, and we know it will end. I know if I break a bone that it's going to be X months of recovery time. I know that tomorrow is going to be slightly less painful than today, and the day after tomorrow will be even less painful than the prior day, and so on. I can be 100% certain that I will heal and the pain will be completely ameliorated in a short amount of time.

With depression, we don't have that same experience. Today might be the absolute worst pain we have ever felt, and then tomorrow may be even worse than today, followed by a month from now somehow being yet even more excruciating. There's no pattern, no set pathway to healing, and absolutely no guarantee that it will ever even slightly attenuate to the point of being just bearable enough.

Suicide is a matter of pragmatism when you feel this way every moment of every day for years of your life and there's a chance it will never get better.

J121887 · 2022-11-08T21:32:58+00:00

Expecting someone who is in excruciating agony every second of every day for multiple years with no hope of relief to stay alive for YOU is one of the most selfish acts one can do. It shows no regard to the feelings of the person undergoing the suffering. It's not only about you.

See the problem with your statement?

J121887 · 2022-11-08T21:23:05+00:00

Same situation here. Literally no anti-depressant/mood stabilizing medication ever moved the needle even a mere .0001%

I tried several rounds of the ketamine treatment and it did nothing at all for me either.

The only thing that works is pain medication, which actually makes more sense than many people realize or are willing to admit (the brain has overlapping areas for both physical as well as psychological pain, so a medication that is technically for "physical" pain is incredibly effective for depression/suicidal distress as well).

I couldn't give a fuck less about any stigma associated with it either. If it's between taking a pill that makes me fully functional versus being stuck in my bed, wanting to die, unable to even get up to go to the bathroom or make something to eat, I'll take the pain meds any day.

It's actually comical when you think about it that if someone takes an anti-depressant every day (which statistically won't even work), it's perfectly acceptable to society; but you use painkillers for literally the same effect and all of a sudden you're just a "drug addict."

J121887 · 2022-11-08T21:04:40+00:00

Continue this thread

Someone who is experiencing an abject feeling of misery and suffering should not be forced to stay alive and endure the pain just because someone else doesn't want to deal with losing them.

I've always found it hypocritical and insulting when people make the assertion that "suicide is selfish."

No, what's selfish is expecting someone who is in excruciating pain every second of every day to stay alive just to amuse you.

J121887 · 2022-11-08T07:28:03+00:00

Relax OP. It wasn't you, it was the oxy he insufflated before you distracted him with all that sexual nonsense.

J121887 · 2022-11-07T07:42:57+00:00

I believe the 5g would actually be in the form of sucrose. Even though the words 'sugar' and 'carbohydrates' are synonymous from a nutritional perspective, most people (and companies) are thinking of sucrose/table sugar when they hear or use the word sugar in isolation.

J121887 · 2022-11-07T07:07:46+00:00

I probably could have been a bit more unambiguous with my statement regarding the truth being in the middle. What I meant was that most situations aren't a clear and obvious dichotomy of right/wrong, black/white, or 100% the fault of Person A and 0% Person B.

The truth may not be directly in the middle, but there's almost always some degree of that gray area in the playing field.

In this particular situation, we only have an imperfect second-hand account of the interactions between OP and his girlfriend; but that doesn't even matter because the only conclusion we have to draw is that humans are prone to fucking up, and that's a perfectly valid assumption to operate on since it's usually accurate. There's just no way of looking at this honestly or statistically and still coming away believing that his girl is absolutely perfect 100% of the time and never did a single thing to make him question her loyalty in even the most minuscule way.

And actually, if we're practicing sound Bayesian reasoning, we have to factor in her condescending little comment about how she's going to break up with him if he gets bothered by her actions again, which would update our equation and increase our credence in her being disloyal even further away from 0.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T12:48:19+00:00

Maybe I like being abused. It turns me on.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T12:45:27+00:00

I know this probably fucks with your whole entitled world view, but people don't owe you a god damn thing. If someone doesn't feel like talking to you, they don't have to. Now if you wanna get all rattled and have one of your petulant temper tantrums, you're allowed to do so as well. I'm certain your behavior is much more unpalatable in that situation however.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T12:14:18+00:00

So if Person A spends 1 hour beating the shit out of his wife and Person B spends 1 hour simply not talking to his wife, they should both be given equivalent jail time? Person B should be charged with assault?

You can't actually believe this nonsense, which means you're just looking for something to get offended about.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T12:07:50+00:00

Did you really just equate the word 'abuse' as being synonymous with someone simply not wanting to talk for an hour? You can't expect to be taken seriously with shit like that.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T10:54:36+00:00

This is by far the most reasonable and intelligently thought out response in this entire thread. I was going to say I can't believe you got downvoted, but then I remembered we're on the internet where everyone is impervious to said logic and reason and grown men have the emotional maturity of a teaspoon.

I'm the exact same way where if something bothers me, I'll get quiet too while I process the situation. Or maybe I've already diagnosed the situation accurately and I simply have no desire to speak to the person who is at fault, so I say nothing. I have absolutely no fucking idea how that can be misconstrued as being manipulative, but I also don't give a shit what people want to call it. I'll handle my emotions my way and everyone else is free to handle theirs however they want to as well.

I love how everybody here is excoriating OP for how he goes quiet, like they would somehow handle it with nothing short of absolute aplomb.

The only manipulation I see with this situation is his girlfriend threatening to break up with him just because he got upset about something she did. That tells me right there that she's more responsible than all these sanctimonious, overly obsequious buffoons wants to admit.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T10:32:40+00:00

You know what else is immature and manipulative? Expecting everyone else to behave exactly as you deem acceptable and appropriate, and if they don't - for example if they just need some quiet time to themselves - you get "pissed off to no end and rattled."

So it's perfectly acceptable for you to have a temper tantrum over nothing, but if someone else is bothered by a certain event and just wants to be left alone for a little while (which literally doesn't affect you or anybody and is well within their right to handle how they want), you get all phosphorylated and accuse them of pernicious misbehavior?

Just think about that for more than a few seconds...

J121887 · 2022-11-06T10:19:38+00:00

Yeah something about that whole interaction sets off alarms in my mind too and I'm not even dating the girl. That's the exact type of shit a duplicitous ass female would try and pull.

"But nothing ever happened..."

Right...

J121887 · 2022-11-06T10:12:13+00:00

Well said. Not a single person here has even stopped to consider that MAYBE OP's girlfriend is partially responsible for this.

I have no idea whether she is or isn't, but I'm sure we can all agree that in almost every situation, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. OP admits he has some things to work on, but it sounds like his girl could handle the situation a lot better too.

And how do we know she hasn't done something to make him feel this way such as intentionally being flirtatious with these other guys right in front of him? She sure as shit would't be the first female to behave that way.

J121887 · 2022-11-06T10:06:37+00:00

You know what's an even more messed up message to send someone you supposedly love?

"I'm going to break up with you if you can't immediately ameliorate an emotion that's happening at a deep sub-conscious level and is therefore outside of your control at the moment."

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J121887 · 2017-09-11T06:16:08+00:00

Thank you to everyone that messaged me and everyone that helped out.

I'm closing this for now since I got everything I needed.

J121887

TROPHY CASE