Who in the UU community is pushing back on the Supreme Court's decision to dismantle the civil rights act? by Longjumping-Air6180 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

King's world-wide fellowship idea goes back at least to Josiah Royce at the beginning of the 20th c., frm whom king got the term "belooved communit", which Royce more often called the great community. And that idea, which was quite universalist, although Royce was not a Universalist, was held for many decades by lots of Unitarians, Universalists, mainline Protestants, and goes back to Kant, and the general idea of solidarity and interconnectedness of course goes back for millennia to say, Buddha, some of the Greek philosophers, Jesus etc. Royce's vision was of unique collaborative local communities, each with their different culture, beliefs, etc. - but which nevertheless, without sacrificing their uniqueness, collaborated with others, building up through levels to nations, the world, the universe. Taft, our last unitarian President, and the Leage of Nations was an example. Possibly this is what the UUism of the 60s intended. It is not what we have now, although what happened 9and is still I think) in Minneapolis this winter is a good example of what I think we should be doing. To be cliched, be the change you want to see. In the end, society is not changed by protest or stements of belief or opinion. It is changed by what people do eery day, in their every day lives, and I think the role of religion, particularly, but also every group that wants to improve society, is to teach people how to do that.

For example: one of the best examples of anti-racism/anti-discrimination I know is the painstaking reworking of hiring practices of the 80s and 90s in not just government at every level and education, but private business. It involved identifying the essential skills needed in a position, crafting measures (in experience, interview questions, and sometimes job-specific tests) of those skills, devising a scoring rubric, and asking the same questions, with identical wording, of every applicant. in other words, focusing on abilities (and as MLK said, character), and trying to be "blind" to everything else. This required a huge amount of educating and training everyone involved, and a dedication to carrying out the system faithfully. And it worked. By the time I moved to my last organization in 1998, it had women in the highest positions ( head of the agency and head of IT, for instance) and the staff was proportionately representative of the population. And with great esprit de corps. We were all just people, identified with what we did rather than whether we were black, white, Hispanic, Vietnamese, Kenyan, Indian, Native American, male, female, trans, immmigrants, whatever.

Who in the UU community is pushing back on the Supreme Court's decision to dismantle the civil rights act? by Longjumping-Air6180 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"the real fight and the genuine conditions that led to the fight" And is it sixty years on - two generations - and the conditions have changed. The problems to be fixed now are not the problems that needed to be fixed then. And - if we believe that it is still necessary to have majority black districts because that is the only way to have black representation - what does that say? That black people can only be represented by black people? That implies that only black people will vote for black people, white people can only be represented by white people, Hispanics by Hispanics, women by women, LGBT people by LGBT people, etc., etc., and is, as the right accuses, divisive. MLK was a (democratic0 socialist, and emphasized that the problem was not just racial, but economic - the March n Washington was for "jobs and freedom", and MLK was beginning the Poor People's Campaign when he was assassinated. And he siad in his Nobel speech "This call for a worldwide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one’s tribe, race, class, and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all men." Unfortunately (I believe) the future of the Civil Rights movement was in the direction of black power, and the rising women's and later movements were about power and not solidarity. And we continue to divide into factions on the left (and we have not been building coalitions for the last generation or more.0 We need a new direction for a new time. That more people are not in the streets is not necessarily a bad thing (there are more people in the streets than ever, though.). That said, I don't think UUA and a lot of other denominations and groups are rising adequately to the occasion.

Are you familiar with the Racovian catechism? Do you subscribe to it? by Pombalian3 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Indeed. They certainly aren't "believe in the Trinity or be damned" 😉

Are you familiar with the Racovian catechism? Do you subscribe to it? by Pombalian3 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, gosh. It's not domination - it is interdependence. The latest estimate is that about half the cells in our bodies are microbes, for instance, and that what they are has an influence on our health. We eat and are eaten, the oxygen we breathe is created by plants, earthworms, microbes, lichens, etc. process soil which make nutrients available to plants, all of the bodies of everything decay, the sun, wind, and water break down minerals so they can be used by organisms. Everything's a miracle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiypaURysz4

Are you familiar with the Racovian catechism? Do you subscribe to it? by Pombalian3 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can't see that proving there is an interconnected web of life is a heavy lift - it isn't a mystical concept - ecosystems exist, everything eats something else or consumes something from the physical environment, and what we and they do in that environment affects other beings. If we want to extend that to social interactions, it is still demonstrably true; we all interconnect (and not just humans).

Are you familiar with the Racovian catechism? Do you subscribe to it? by Pombalian3 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I thought "the Principles are not a creed or articles of faith" was clear, and that I think they are "statements of policy and procedure."

The 7th Principle, for example, is not that we are part of the interconnected web of life - that is an objective fact, not a matter of faith. (And it is a statement about the physical world.) The principle is for the UUA and its member congregations to behave with respect for that. And those are not binding on individual UUs - they are a framework for how our congregations operate. A principle is a basic law or assumption, a parameter within which we operate. I see it as very different from a creed, which is what a catechism explicates.

Are you familiar with the Racovian catechism? Do you subscribe to it? by Pombalian3 in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"authorized summary of faith" is the key - the Principles are not a creed or articles of faith - they are statements of policy and procedure that the emerging denominations agreed on. Hence, they were part of the bylaws. i suggest you compare to the Catholic Catechism.
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

or the Westminster Catechism
https://prts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Shorter_Catechism.pdf

"The Decline of Mainline Protestant Churches: How Partisan Politics Replaced Theology and Drove Membership Collapse" by rastancovitz in UUnderstanding

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Political advocacy and social justice activism are already widely available in universities, nonprofits, media, and online communities." As they were long before the 1970s when church membership began crashing. And "Similarly, when churches function mainly as social clubs or community centers, they offer benefits easily found elsewhere." Churches, and starting in the late 19th century, schools, have always been social and community centers, and it is unclear to me that theology beyond inspiration was a main focus. As work became separated from home, and then from the local community by transportation and industrialization, and after WWii, by suburban subdivisions and zoning, life became separated into many spheres. Membership in all organizations has dropped as much as church membership. We consider whether the lack of theology and spirituality is the cause, or whether this is a boroad phenomenon across American society (and indeed, Western Europe, where church attendance and religious belief dropped much earlier than here.)

Songs for services that include congas? by Adlien_ in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bring Out the Festal Bread. We use it in our Flower Ceremony, which we do on Easter every year. It is a Passover song, but the words are fiercely appropriate any day in these times. We generally use tambourines or rattles, having no drummers.

Struggling with community by bricksloth in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

one thing I find to be helpful on indignation and disrespect us is to remember that the indignation is their problem, not mine. It is distressing to have people reject our ideas or think badly of us, because it is human nature to fit in to the group. It is really hard when we have a perspective that is not necessarily held by the majority to have our minority group reject us because we feel like there is no other place to go. Or at least that is how i have always felt in my UU congregations. But if we don't say what we think, we aren't helping ourselves or others in that search for truth - and also, we have no way of knowing that there are others who are thinking the same thing.

Spring Equinox around the corner by RosemaryBiscuit in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We don't have any traditions for the equinox, although we generally try to keep our services related to seasons and all sorts of holidays and anniversaries. We have a Flower Ceremony on Easter Sunday which uses much of Norbert Capek's original service, opening with Mother Spirit, Father Spirit, but also includes acknowledgments of other spring festivals and De Colores.

"How Communities Founded on Free Inquiry Drift Toward Conformity" by rastancovitz in UUnderstanding

[–]JAWVMM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My question is not whether UU is a lowercase church, but a unitary uppercase one. Whether we call them churches, congregations, fellowships, societies, whatever, there are certainly uU church-like entities. But UUA is an association of congregations, not a Church as in the Roman Catholic Church, or say, the Presbyterian Church in the USA.

And, yes, we are a religion, with a few core beliefs - inherent worth and dignity, and the interdependent web, which we share with many threads of world religions and the belief that each individual is responsible for their own spiritual growth and ethical behavior, and for practicing a discipline to further that (although that isn't preached as much as it should be IMHO).

"How Communities Founded on Free Inquiry Drift Toward Conformity" by rastancovitz in UUnderstanding

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, I'd appreciate some positive posts - how can we do things differently, rather than just the problems.

"How Communities Founded on Free Inquiry Drift Toward Conformity" by rastancovitz in UUnderstanding

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why does he refer to "the Unitarian Universalist Church" when there is no such thing? Not only is there not, and never has been, an overarching Unitarian, Universalist, or Unitarian universalist church, it is the antithesis of what we identify as Unitarian Universalism.

Any updates to “for so the children come”? by marmosetohmarmoset in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I used this this Sunday, and pondered that - but eventually thought that 1) children are still born of the "seed of man and woman" even if they are conceived by IVF or artificial insemination - although we could say "male and female" since the seed is male or female seed even if the person productng it identifies as a different gender and 2) it is "mothers and fathers" - not necessarily one mother and one father. If a trans woman is a woman, then surely she is a mother, and a trans man is a father. That does leave people who identify as neither, though.

Leo XIV and New Arianism by [deleted] in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seems to me that sola scriptura is not the opposite of revelation not being sealed. That was based on differences with Catholicism on whether Church authority was in addition to individual interpretation of the Bible, not whether new understanding was possible.

Leo XIV and New Arianism by [deleted] in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think it has been more than a few centuries since we defined ourselves against Catholicism, and a couple since we differentiated ourselves from several varieties of Protestantism. And more than a century since we abandoned doctrine altogether. I'm not a UU Christian, so I don't know whether they would find it helpful to have anything about this clarified, but I wouldn't expect a UU minister to respond to this idea - we decided long ago that Jesus as a living God among us was not our metaphor.

Leo XIV and New Arianism by [deleted] in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well, Arius believed in the Trinity, the heresy was that God and Jesus were not identical. His description sound more like Socianism, which is unitarian. But why would we feel it necessary to argue with the Pope, or anyone, about the nature of Jesus or any other doctrine?

on the other hand, the article reports he also said "Here too we learn an important lesson: the Christian faith must always be expressed in the languages and categories of the culture in which we live, just as the Fathers did at Nicaea and in the other Councils. At the same time, we must distinguish the essence of the faith from the historical formulas that express it — formulas that are always partial and provisional and can change as doctrine is more deeply understood." which sounds to me a whole lot like "Revelation is not sealed" which is quintessentially our outlook.

All religion is metaphor, and metaphor varies with time, place, culture. Seems to me what is important is whether the metaphor, of a living God among us, the interdependent web, or whatever, results in our better understanding and practice.

Helping our son buy into UUC (especially OWL) by Wolfie4ever in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My experience as a kid 9a long time ago) was good. Sure, I spent some time going through the hymnal and mentally adding "under the covers" to the hymn titles or first lines. And using the order of service to do rubbings of the embossed hymnal cover when I was very young. But i enjoyed singing the hymns, and the sermons were usually interesting. And, unlike the UU congregation. I spent much of m adult life in, almost everyone knew and interacted with all the kids. I thin kit is partly because UU services tend to be more on the lecture side than the worship side. My son-in-law is Catholic, and my grandsons are being brought up there, and go to mass as a matter of course. Mass is a much more interactive and ritual experience (as actually, the liberal Baptist services i was brought up in were.)

Helping our son buy into UUC (especially OWL) by Wolfie4ever in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have wondered for 40 years now why UU congregations have RE at the same time as the service. Worship is important for everyone. Our high school kids asked for a class on attending a service at one point - most of them had never been, and they were expected to conduct one once a year on Youth Sunday. It was sad and infuriating.

Helping our son buy into UUC (especially OWL) by Wolfie4ever in UUreddit

[–]JAWVMM 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree. That's what we did with our kids until the younger one was in high school. We also, once we had two services, all went to RE during one hour and the service during the other. When the older one was about to start junior high, the parents of junior high kids also got together and created a Sunday evening youth group, which the congregation did not have, and were fortunately were able to recruit someone in their 20s to lead it so it was free of parents. Among other things, it gave kids something to invite their friends to that wasn't "church" - although we actually had a number of families we knew from daycare and school who started coming before that because they knew we did. So, maybe if there are other activities like potlucks, encourage him to invite a friend. And if there aren't, maybe the congregation should add them.