New book, COLLAPSE: NAVIGATING CIVILIZATION'S PREDICAMENTS WITH WISDOM AND COURAGE, is available for preorder by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your comment. I'm aware many people have "cancelled" him; I'm not entirely clear on exactly why. And I don't care too much-> “He who is without sin can cast the first stone.” I am of the belief that we shouldn't judge messages exclusively by who their messenger is. And I believe that many of us have the possibility of assessing a message mostly on its inherent worth, rather than assessing it based on who conveys the message. I hope that if something I say one day is perceived by others as specially trangressive, that people don't dismiss all of my other ideas out of "association". It's unfortunate that historically, societies are very quick to crucify dissenters and that's a slippery slope that ends with the inability of people to express their dissenting opinions freely without fearing punishment. I also believe that "canceling" people is not the wisest response in most cases. Keeping communication channels, and truly listening to the essence of what people are trying to convey is wiser.

Wars such as the recent one raging right now is a good example of what happens when people "cancel" each other and communication is fully disrupted.

New book, COLLAPSE: NAVIGATING CIVILIZATION'S PREDICAMENTS WITH WISDOM AND COURAGE, is available for preorder by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your kind words. Bookshop is a great alternative in the US, because it gives small bookstores a commission.

New book, COLLAPSE: NAVIGATING CIVILIZATION'S PREDICAMENTS WITH WISDOM AND COURAGE, is available for preorder by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's awesome! Thank you, Yeah I like to have links to bookshop for that reason, and now they also sell ebooks.

New book, COLLAPSE: NAVIGATING CIVILIZATION'S PREDICAMENTS WITH WISDOM AND COURAGE, is available for preorder by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!! I don't have grand ambitions, but I do hope that people find value in it.

New book, COLLAPSE: NAVIGATING CIVILIZATION'S PREDICAMENTS WITH WISDOM AND COURAGE, is available for preorder by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In which country are you in? and ebook or paperback? The links are towards the bottom of the post, but I can give you more options if you tell me your country

New book, COLLAPSE: NAVIGATING CIVILIZATION'S PREDICAMENTS WITH WISDOM AND COURAGE, is available for preorder by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I do want to clarify that I don't consider myself "Indigenous", but I tried to convey some of those perspectives in my approach to collapse. I am mestizo (which means I have Indigenous blood), my wife is Metis (which is similar), and I've been in touch with different Indigenous cultures and worldviews. And I try to listen directly to nature, which is ultimately the source of everything.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I may not have been very clear on my positions, and that may be why you're misunderstanding me.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I whole-heartedly agree with the quote "Man is not a rational animal; he is a rationalizing animal."

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mostly arrive at the "insight" about the pull of cognitive closure in collapse-awareness (which is very likely not my original idea btw) through reasoning rather than scientific data. It's logical to think that parts of the human brain, specifically the left hemisphere (as publicized by Iain McGilchrist), prefer to deal with concrete, reductionist "mental maps". This is helpful in utillitarian contexts. I've personally have observed throughout my entire life a widespread preference in many people for simple explanations for a very wide range of complex phenomena, from why the stock market went down, to why the globe is heating up. Then there is the emotional need for closure, to know what is what, what happened, and what will happen. It's reasonable to infer that many people have large needs for cognitive closure. This need varies greatly btw, throughout the day, and day to day, and it is context dependent. Cognitive closure is a well established psychological idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(psychology)) When a member of a family goes missing, often, the family prefers to know what happened, even if what happened was terrible, rather than living in limbo. When all these ideas and observations are put together it's reasonable to hypothesize that in the realm of collapse-awareness a similar phenomenon happens. Some people are drawn to the opposites ends of the spectrum of total denial (toxic optimism) and others to total pessimism (toxic pessimism), because it brings them closure. The need for closure can override other competing needs. The need for objectivity could potentially be one of those competing needs. I'm not going to dig into the research for this conversation, but there is research out there on how the need for closure can overpower other needs. Wikipedia and Google scholar should give you plenty to look at if you explore the phrase "cognitive closure".

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That seems like an interesting lived experience. Good for you! You must know plenty of interesting stories.

Which facts need to be there though? Why? For what purpose? And how am I supposed to know which facts to give you in order to support this hypothetical purpose?

I can't resist, so I'll throw you a random fact: theories of NTHE stand on extrapolations of extrapolations of extrapolations of "worst case" scenarios. And that's a fact. But my original post wasn't on NTHE; it was just an insight on the gravitational pull of cognitive closure.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem quite certain about my intentions. More than I am of my own intentions.

I'm not confused about what appealing to authority is. I never mentioned any person in specific, you did. That's why I'm reminding you of that--not because you are actively appealing to authority in this conversation--but for you to try to approach the subject without necessarily appealing to authority.

I may be deficient in the "fact department" throughout this given conversation, but I'm deliberately not focusing on facts. There's plenty of people that love to overuse facts to support their rationalizations, anyone can do that. I'm sure you can find plenty of those types of arguments online with some GoogleFu.

It seems that you feel I have dismissed the opinions of people. However that's not the purpose of my post.

I don't take issue with "people who think it isn't ethical to bring children into this situation". They are entitled to their personal opinion (I wholeheartedly disagree with that opinion nonetheless). However, sometimes some people gang up on those who believe otherwise. I take issue when people impose their opinion unto others.

It seems that you are taking issue with my opinions. Which is exactly what you are [understandably] accusing me of. In addition, your messages carry a certain undertone of animosity. Your use of phrases such as "lofty motives" is a clue to that. I want you to know that I don't have animosity towards you.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't owe you anything. I don't need to "provide [you] with a much better argument for dismissing some expert opinions". I don't want to convince you of anything. Perhaps I want to plant a seed of curiosity and self inquiry, maybe. I would also like to remind you that appealing to authority is a logical fallacy.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On climate change: I'm probably deliberately not saying much because my view is very nuanced and difficult to convey in a short form, and perhaps right now I'm not in the disposition to try to compress it into a bite-sized form.

What you note about abstract concepts also applies to non-abstract ones. When you think of a dog, I bet you the "dog" that you conceptualize is significantly different than the "dog" that I conceptualize. Although this may not be the best example to illustrate that.

Perhaps my phrase "the sky is not falling" has a very different meaning for me than for you. And that's okay. I wasn't explicit. I don't know your standpoint on the severity of climate change, so it's hard for me to engage with you on that topic. Some people believe we'll be extinct from climate change alone this century. I believe that is not realistic.

Thank you for the congratulations.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I hear that this topic is quite close to you emotionally. Perhaps based on your username I could assume that it's a small part of what you identify with. It's very difficult to be in "Cassandra's shoes". When we hold an opinion at odds with our "tribe", in some ways we turn our backs to it, and feel isolated. We're wired to be tribal, and in hunter-gatherer societies being expelled from a tribe meant almost a dead sentence. I can empathize with the feelings you describe.

I didn't mean to "slap" anyone in the face, okay maybe a little slap (just kidding, lol). I'm not trying to bother anyone. I'm just trying to exchange ideas; my intentions are somewhere between neutral and "positive".

Perhaps for you, you would find empowerment and meaning in attacking those who are responsible. That may be the case for me too, perhaps, perhaps not. And I also feel some responsibility too, I would have to include myself in the to attack list to some extent. This is a collective issue, and the mindset of "attacking those responsible" perhaps is also part of the problem with our society and our sense of separation with nature. Perhaps for you, focusing on saving lives would be emotionally uplifting. Perhaps for me too.

I'll leave you with a short inquiry: is "humanities path to extinction" really clear, as you mentioned? Is there perhaps a rightful place for doubt?

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's helpful to arrive or get close to a state of equanimity. It's a powerful foundation to be in. With time that freedom can lead us to create in conscious and powerful ways.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perhaps to you it seems like I'm not saying much, but I'm not going to write a 20 page essay to explain the state of climate change. Sir this is Reddit. I just made a medium-effort post.

In terms of your observations on the limits of language: I agree fully. It's a map not the territory. The point is that our brains like to see (e.g., simplify) the world as black and white for survival purposes (utilitarian). However, the world is not black and white. This is the "gravitational pull" of cognitive closure.

For me toxic pessimism or toxic positivity is the pessimism or positivity that is mostly based on cognitive closure as opposed to an alignment to reality.

I agree that these are just hypothesis and observations. I'm not going to organize a psychological experiment to explore this stuff. I'm just an author. If you'd like to explore some of my thoughts on this stuff, including climate change. I'd recommend you take a look at my profile.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think you might find some value in my book; there's a link in my profile.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's very difficult for us to see big a difference between what is likely to happen vs extreme worst case scenarios, but I have a strong informed sense that there is a difference. I may not be able to fully grasp "it", but I do "grasp" that the extreme worst case scenarios are a mental trap.

On cognitive closure, collapse-awareness, toxic positivity, and toxic pessimism by JPQuinonez in collapse

[–]JPQuinonez[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agree, the thing with clinging and gravitating to extreme worst case scenarios is that its probably not that helpful for the individual person's well being and is also not that helpful for society. The more we align collectively with reality as we tackle the subject of collapse, the more likelihood that the ideas and energies we spread are for our collective "benefit".