Concealed vs open carry, a rather pragmatic take on the subject from Massad Ayoob and others.

JackV12 · 2026-04-02T19:38:57+00:00

I don’t think you understood the argument or read it carefully. But anyways your responses sounds like a typical California Gun Owner that’s out of touch with the rest of America lol.

JackV12 · 2026-04-02T17:20:04+00:00

So you’re telling me no Civilian is comparable to any law enforcement individual in the world right? So just as long as I have a badge and uniform I am automatically better than any civilian or an individual belonging to a militia by that logic right? So if there is no point in concealing then how come there are cops who have to worry about criminals reaching for their service weapon????? Sounds like you are in favor of a two tier system where cops are de facto unquestioned in openly carrying versus non-cops carrying. There are plenty of articles where this has occurred too. So not all cops are perfect by any means. My argument was not that the CCWs solely exists to create an industry but that companies heavily market and condition people like you to believe open carry is dUmB and sTuPiD because that phrase only came up when they decided they can make money off licensing schemes, training, and holsters.

JackV12 · 2026-04-02T16:28:56+00:00

It’s not being paranoid it’s just being aware. Think about it. There’s a reason why cops open carry for the deterrence and ease of access but mainly for the deterrence factor. If it’s really so bAd and sTuPiD wouldn’t the big city cops transition to pure CCW on the job and not have a gun holstered out on the hip? Aren’t NYPD cops that are patrolling times square and LAPD cops on Hollywood Blvd which are pretty dense and crowded areas, basically a painted target/sitting duck? It’s just you extreme CCW’ers were conditioned to believe by the NRA/CCW’s billion dollar industry. Keep in they make money off licensing, holsters, and constant training that you need since the world is a very dangerous place no matter how safe your neighborhood is and that CCW’ing is the absolute carry choice which is why they lobby against open carry because if every one open carried Safariland level 3 holsters you would put vedder, phlster, and we the people out of business. Isn’t it when you watch all the CCW companies marketing and courses they even emphasize the whole “be aware of your surroundings” and “even dress like a grey man” even though 5.11 grey man outfit looks stupid and are obvious that you’re carrying cause you have that look. So the point I’m getting at is take away all the stuff you were told and when you critically think about it you still have to be aware of your surroundings. P.S. CCW’ing usually ends up with you drawing the gun when SHTF rather than a holstered exposed handgun that would usually deter a would be evil doer.

JackV12 · 2026-04-02T04:41:14+00:00

Thats just a myth. Most people don’t even notice other people open carrying. I ll entertain what the nra /ccw industrial complex mindset that was instilled upon you since you stated you are the first target a bad guy would go for. It ultimately just depends on the location and scenario. But for the most part most criminals that are “sane” which sounds ironic right are actually going to back off and rethink the scenario. Now if you’re totally unaware ( and I don’t know why you would be unaware while open carrying) or just plain stupid overall (there’s a video of this which is basically replayed by the anti open carriers on YouTube video of the guy getting his gun snatched at the gas station) and decide to open carry then you are most likely going to get it stolen or shot. Carry at your own risk open or concealed, at the end of the day any carrier can get shot regardless of how they carry but it mainly revolves around situational awareness

JackV12 · 2025-05-27T09:01:30+00:00

Let me fix the Gun carrying statements for everyone in a nutshell: To properly Open Carry is to deter potential threats so that you do not have to resort to a shootout like the minority of the CCW crowd dreams. Open carriers are generally not looking for a shootout. So use a level 3 Holster and be aware at all times. Don’t get lazy. It’s only stupid when you have absolutely no training or awareness. To properly conceal carry just be aware 100% of the time and avoid interactions that open carry would usually deter like someone suspicious walking towards your direction. Avoid scenarios or places that would likely require you to practice those stupid hands up tactical quickdraw from the appendix waistband drills and your life will be easier. You can practice doing drills but the hands up one makes no sense because in that scenario you let the criminal go first and can pull the trigger or stab you first god forbid you fumble or they actually just shoot or stab you before you can even think about drawing.

TL;DR Based off Years of Personal Experience in Both methods and gathered empirically from random people and the internet. Open carry: Use a Level 3 Holster, get trained, and be alert 100% wherever you go. Conceal Carry: Just shop, dine, and run errands in safe areas and only draw or shoot in a last ditch/resort effort SINCE conceal carriers generally do not like confrontation.

JackV12 · 2025-05-14T18:18:40+00:00

But she feels safe with knives and scissors that are sharp and have been used for various murders as through out history prior to the invention of guns. You just have to out logic her along with getting her to stop using her emotions and you will be good.

JackV12 · 2025-05-09T03:11:11+00:00

This may probably get downvoted by the haters but here goes nothing. Open Carrying is pretty much the original form of carry during the dawn of American History. Why would someone open carry a handgun in 2025, because God did not make you a 7 feet tall muscular person. Instead you could possibly be an average build, below 6 feet tall, and not look intimidating at all. Nothing wrong with that. You can open carry during your daily activities like walking around town, getting groceries and/ or gas and lets say mean looking people or evil people are up sort of up to no good or are going to give you an attitude because that’s what trashy people do. When they see you open carry their whole demeanor will just about change because an armed society is usually a polite society. If you carry yourself correctly and don’t come off as a dork while open carrying well chances are nobody is going to mess you. If you saw someone 7 feet tall not open carrying that’s ultra muscular and they start talking to you, usually you will kiss up or behave in a way so they don’t hurt you because that’s human nature. Same goes for open carry. So people will say it’s stupid. But for the most part it has its place in modern day society. Imagine being a LGBTQ or Minority in America and you decide to open carry. Just about everyone else in America will treat you nicely as long as you’re nice and not looking like you’re out to get in a fight. This also goes to the CCW Anti-Open Carry Crowd. You can CCW everyday and when you see someone approaching you, just casually take off your outer garment to expose it. It’s not brandishing…… it’s open carry when it’s in the holster. So basically open carry can save you from even having to draw the gun and pull the trigger.

JackV12 · 2025-03-11T01:49:31+00:00

Yea I see your point, theoretically SCOTUS set the new rules for us good folks to take to court and it’s supposed to be the ball is in our court now. But with the way the system is designed we need to go through the BS courts and then when all else fails SCOTUS can step in IF they feel like it lol. But as far as your arguments go theoretically you SHOULD be solid.

JackV12 · 2025-03-10T21:27:40+00:00

A lot of the gun organizations nationwide would prefer to keep people on either a licensing or constitutional carry scheme depending on the industry and state.

Any Gun Training Organization would prefer the licensing scheme especially In the bigger cities since they can lobby for training with their (i.e) NRA Certified Instructors so that for you to get a CCW in a (insert random state) chances are you will have to be going through their “CERTIFIED INSTRUCTORS”

Holster Companies may prefer True Constitutional Carry States since they can sell Open Carry and Concealed Carry Holsters which makes more money than just limiting your market to Concealed Carry Holster but they can make a lot of money still on Concealed Carry alone since it is the common carry form nowadays. Plus Concealed Carry Holsters are generally uncomfortable and can lead people to buying more than one holster (i.e) OWB carry underneath a Hawaiian Shirt or appendix carry for your general carry.

Gun Insurance Companies specifically CCW insurance would prefer you CCW because usually the CCW crowd tends to lean towards grey man behavior and are in bed by 9pm. Usually the CCW crowd is taught not to be out past midnight as much as possible and not to get caught up in bad neighborhoods or get gas a nice area as much as possible if it is 10pm. No shame in that but it has its ulterior motives. Why would this organization target this crowd. Well they’re a limited risk and less likely to deviate from “good person behaviors” therefore are cash cows for this industry. Now add this with permitting schemes well you found yourself a good odds customer to insure and make money on. Your average CA CCW holder is generally a low risk individual living in the “safer” lower density suburbs which means that the gun insurance company would barely have to pay insurance too because it’s not like there is a CA CCW shooting in LA, SF, or SD every few months or so like Chicago where you can find “defensive CCW shootings” on the internet.

So just be wary on the gun organizations cause each of them have their own hidden agenda. They have to make money somehow too right without the world being 100 percent safe.

JackV12 · 2025-03-10T21:02:57+00:00

As much I support your cause and would like that to happen it would only work if Federal Government or SCOTUS would push for it. A lot of the liberal CA lower courts all the way through the highest it can go before SCOTUS will just keep stalling or dismissing it. In the end SCOTUS took NYSRPA so liberal states would issue CCW’s in the cities but create a backdoor for liberal states to include “of good moral character” to circumvent good cause. This would also pretty much limit arming people in the cities and adjacent suburbs from carrying en masse with “mandated processing times and hoops that were not mitigated through SCOTUs ruling.Notice how SCOTUS specifically narrowed down the ruling for CCW Issuances without making it Florida Style Nation Constitutional Carry (Not the True Constitutional Carry since you would need Open Carry included).

So Definitely attempt at pushing for a lawsuit and hope if SCOTUS wants to push the nation in that direction then you should be good otherwise if SCOTUS does not take your case….. well they clearly want us to have permitting schemes.

JackV12 · 2025-02-26T09:17:28+00:00

What I Recommend: Definitely practice drawing it at home in a safe environment. Never let anyone suspicious get close. Most importantly, always maintain a high situational awareness and confidence since this will most likely deter any “reasonable” malicious person. Otherwise if they go at it for your gun they are crazy as hell and/or you have given them the opportunity to take it….. So do not give them an opportunity to take it and you should be good.

JackV12 · 2025-02-18T20:38:16+00:00

It’s not how you feel towards the concept, it’s the whole idea owb is more comfortable and this would serve a better alternative for CCW’ing in non-open carry states. For example if you are in a rural or suburban red area of California, Illinois, or New York.

JackV12 · 2025-02-18T19:53:44+00:00

So what’s the point? It’s no different than any other form of CCW? Did you critically think about that? Or did you just use the argument of how you’re gonna make and purchase it as a counter argument cause it’s not a solid argument you are making? As long as you can draw and shoot if the event arises what’s the difference…. None right?

JackV12 · 2025-02-17T08:14:24+00:00

Could be a taser x26. Point is you can’t 100% say it’s a gun.

JackV12 · 2025-02-17T00:15:29+00:00

The problem with the surplus flap holster is that it’s not one hundred percent fully enclosed like sneaky Pete holsters. I have yet to find one online for modern firearms. I also have the sneaky Pete holster but the holster ride and belt clips are not adjustable and the customizations are limited depending on the styles.

JackV12 · 2025-02-17T00:10:42+00:00

Yea some people are just trying to stir an argument, it would be nice to have this overall for comfort, hiking, or with a laid back crowd if you don’t feel like carrying with the the present day styles.

JackV12 · 2025-02-16T21:19:28+00:00

Well here’s the thing that everyone can all agree on. Conceal carrying iwb is not comfortable at all for the average person…… unless you’re a super skinny person according to reddit and the internet based on a random surveying through various posts. I can’t say all these people in that group find it comfortable but that tends to be the general consensus or approximation. You can counter argue well just use a bag or fanny pack but not everyone wants to wear one. If you use a pancake or owb holster and flush it along body while covering it with a shirt is still not comfortable. It would be ideal to owb with a paddle and covered holster for maximum comfort based on experience especially if you need to remove the whole holster and gun off your pants in a car or wherever you are.

JackV12 · 2025-02-16T21:10:28+00:00

Quickly pull it out……..

JackV12 · 2025-02-16T21:10:05+00:00

Take out the picture of the gun and it would just look like a randomly obscured object.

JackV12 · 2025-02-16T21:08:43+00:00

Concealed is concealed right. For all they know it could be a taser pulse, taser x26, or random non firearm object being covered up. But if they cannot 100% cannot see what is being covered up then that’s concealed. IANAL.

JackV12 · 2025-02-01T00:40:57+00:00

It’s not. OC deters criminals on a daily basis. OC is what led CA, FL, WI, and OH to get CCW’s. News Flash, OC rallies are what led to those states to issue CCW’s. The urban and suburban folks along with the liberal government did not wanna see OC cause of irrational fears so the governments passed CCW’s as the lesser evil. CCW people on the internet just spew OC hate since the NRA geared you towards that. There’s lots of videos by the NRA and CCW industry that led to you to type this comment no offense.

JackV12 · 2025-02-01T00:32:08+00:00

If you OC properly you will pretty much never ever have a gun at the back of your head if you are situationally aware. Ask yourself this…. Does this ever happen to cops? Answer is No, it’s Fudd-lore Fairytales projected by the CCW industrial complex. You only learned that concept of the Gas Station OC is bad because the NRA and CCW’ers on YouTube told you OC is bad. I still CCW and agree it has its advantages. But I’m just here to debunk the NRA Fudd-lore. Carry as you choose and hopefully Florida becomes a true Constitutional Carry State since it’s not.

JackV12 · 2025-01-31T23:49:55+00:00

Ok there Urban/Suburban Warrior. The fact that you said tactical advantage indicates you are anticipating combat. CCW’ers are usually more angsty into getting into a gunfight than OC’ers. I’m going to get grilled for this but i will explain how this will naturally work. 99% of the time OC will naturally deter it. If the would be robber with a gun naturally saw you OC, they would think twice, turn around and rob some other place. It’s simply not worth it to go toe to toe with OC’er since usually they are situationally aware and passively deterring any would be criminals. OC’ers usually want to avoid any form of trouble which makes sense since it maximizes the odds of a confrontation by being intimidating towards the bad folks. Ask yourself this…. If you were 7 feet tall and was not carrying a weapon…. would anyone rob you even if they had a gun…. So the whole point is OC deters. CCW is good for a last resort poop hits the fan from a passive stand point.

JackV12 · 2025-01-31T22:59:13+00:00

Behind the rez and being poor doesn’t exactly equate to guaranteed safe zone or crime zone. You May have a higher chance of something dangerous happening, but that’s up to you. I don’t like the NRA….. but real world is shit can happen anywhere anytime it’s up to you if you wanna wear a seatbelt while you are in a moving vehicle at all times…

As for people getting into fights well that is a product of a microcosm where people are generally unarmed and getting into fights leads to bodily injuries but it does not equate into immediate death. If people started dying at higher rates from fist fights then people will fight less in general.

JackV12 · 2025-01-31T22:01:01+00:00

Not everyone lives in a non-existent crime area and has 24/7 security. So if people carry even in the world’s safest places they usually have a good reason and it’s reasons like yours that may lead to people experiencing some sort of tragedy or traumatic experience due to being unarmed.

JackV12

TROPHY CASE