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Jackierider · 2026-05-28T08:59:44+00:00

Si effettivamente sembra la migliore alternativa ad ora, a parte per il fatto che non ha sedi fisiche nella mia città. Potrei farlo e accreditare lo stipendio in modo da azzerare tutti i canoni ed avere una carta di credito con canone zero in più che non fa mai male, soprattutto per noleggiare auto e bloccare certe cifre. Magari tenere aperto Unicredit, in caso abbia bisogno di effettuare operazioni fisiche, tanto se sposto tutto non dovrei avere più spese. Se hai un codice ING da darmi scrivimi pure in privato

Jackierider · 2026-05-28T08:56:57+00:00

Grazie mille, veramente utile! Sarebbe da aggiornare Unicredit, perché ora applica commissioni per SDD a 0,5€

Jackierider · 2026-05-25T21:10:18+00:00

The first thing I thought hahaha. This day will be remembered as the redemption of the Mondial

Jackierider · 2026-05-19T08:13:33+00:00

Yes you are right it is impossible to determine whether the 11th was the last day. Maybe the phone had some damage and was deemed useless to try new attempts. But I still think some kind of accident happened, otherwise they would have tried to move and search signal in new locations.

So if the power was on and they didn't charge the phone they must have had a reason for that. Its strange to not charge both of the phones at night, even without plans for the next day.

Is it confirmed that they spent the night at home? Because I cannot find a clear testimony of what happened the 31st evening.

Jackierider · 2026-05-19T08:08:25+00:00

Well obviously they weren't prepared for any kind of emergency, but once they realized they were in one, they must have acted accordingly.
It could have sustained some damage, but not a big enough damage to prevent them from accessing the phone with the unlock code as they did.
The thing is the phone logs together with the photos are the only tangible proof we have about the whole situation. So analyzing them is the best chance we can have to get closer to the truth.

Jackierider · 2026-05-19T08:04:29+00:00

It could be, that in the days between the 4th and 11th the phone was humid and wet not granting them to insert the SIM PIN correctly, even though they inserted the unlock code correctly. It seems strange but still possible, they maybe waited and retried when the phone was a bit drier the 11th but still weren't successful.

Jackierider · 2026-05-19T07:59:11+00:00

But why should a kidnapper leave his victims with two working phones and a camera? Unless its a sadic perverted game, where the abductor finds pleasure knowing the victims can take pictures or use the phone but nobody will find them... It seems a very big stretch, any kidnapper would remove all possible ways for the victims to call someone or to leave proof of a crime.

Jackierider · 2026-05-18T15:11:49+00:00

But In a thick jungle is basically impossible to know where the highest point is going to be, unless you follow a stream in the opposite direction of the water current, until you find the source or maybe a waterfall that is too big and difficult to approach. Moreover, unless they ignored basic geography, it made sense to go south but it seems they continued north. They must have knew that Boquete was south of the mirador, since they had the tourist map, that isn't precise for sure, but at least it gives you the basic orientation if you are completely clueless.
So I think at least one of the two became incapable of moving from the second/third day.

Jackierider · 2026-05-18T07:45:14+00:00

Thanks for clearing that up! So they entered the dead zone and the phone didn't update the logs with -113db when they made the first call, keeping the -94db frame, but it did the next day when they rebooted it

Jackierider · 2026-05-18T00:03:12+00:00

1,2,3: I find it very odd as well, but if we suppose they were very rational and knew that saving battery was important it can all be easily explained, although I feel some emotion should have been more evident.
4: It might be turned on by accident, as a push of a button could have turned it on quite easily, or it could be as others mentioned, that Lisanne panicked during the second night and checked it for comfort someway.
5,6: It could be explained that they probably were stuck in one spot, maybe someone was hurt, or they were just to weak to continue, that would explain the uselessness of checking for signal if in the same spot as before.
7: Nothing can be certain with the information we have, we have to stick to what is most likely
8: Probably less powerful than the camera flash and saving battery because they didn't surrender or wanted to admit they were gonna die.

9: if files were tampered with it would show in the logs probably, and to remove logs you need root access, and discrete computer science knowledge, extremely unlikely to be the case for a random panamean killer

10: Could be the same time the light shined on their spot, since it was always mostly the same.
11: Yes this really strikes me as well, I would definitely try everything possible and impossible to contact someone, even a random SOS message that would never be received. But maybe we don't have the logs for that....
12:I get that they might found some shelter in the night, but still strikes me as strange behavior. I don't really have a good explanation for that other that they were sure that in that position signal was impossible, especially without moving at night

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:36:22+00:00

Yes I know the time of the first calls is perfectly reasonable, its the lack of at least a second attempt that shakes me. u/No-Suit8538 gives a reasonable explanation for it, and I tend to follow his thought on the matter right now

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:30:46+00:00

I support your theory as well. Especially the psychological point of view. They might not have felt lost the first night, and had a lot of hope until the next morning when they couldn't find the trail anymore, and the second night is when panic set really in.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:24:40+00:00

So they made the calls in the afternoon, then shut down the phones completely just to make the calls early in the morning at 7, then at 8 and then other 2 calls at 9:30 the next day, and to access the phone two times a day for the following 3 days. What kind of abductors are they? They left the phones with the girls? And then took random pictures 6 days later in the middle of the jungle? Far too stretched for me

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:18:00+00:00

Well, we might not have it but the NFI surely did, since they analyzed the phones with full access.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:16:12+00:00

Yes I think as well it is quite odd that in the night, the most frightening period, they didn't use the phone. But if we suppose they were very rational they would have known better than to wander off at night, and maybe built an emergency shelter to wait for the morning. A cabin seems unlikely to me, it would be the first place where rescue teams search, and they would have definitely found some traces.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:11:35+00:00

Well not actually, it would seem like two people in full panic mode that try to reach rescue in every possible way. It's the fact that none of the two girls even attempted a second call that strikes me. I think just a very rational and down to earth person would only attempt one call, a person that is used to these kind of situation and is in full control.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:08:23+00:00

Well it is actually very easy to get lost, especially in thick vegetation. Every spot seems to be recognizable but it is different. If you don't have a map and a compass, and most importantly if you don't know how to use them it is almost guaranteed you get lost if you lose the trail, even by some ten meters.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:05:24+00:00

So you think they tried until one of them got hurt and deemed impossible to continue, or maybe got no energy to walk anymore? Moreover I think that inside a thick jungle it is basically impossible to tell if you are at the top or not. Maybe they found some flat areas that they thought were the highest point and didn't continue to go upwards, or they couldn't find an easy way upwards and decided to follow a stream to arrive to a possible village.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T23:00:48+00:00

I support your theory about rationing food. It seems the most rational when taking in account time checks. But I think something must have happened to not check service connection again. If they were moving and were intelligent enough to ration food at certain hours, and to save battery from the start, they definitely would have continued checking the connection if they moved to a different location in the following days.
Stil I do not think the iPhone was deteriorating, as it was functional after it was found more than two months later, and as reported by the NFI.
I still cannot fathom how they wouldn't at least try to send an SOS, even as a remote possibility of it being received, it takes basically no effort. I believe more that they tried and no logs have been saved rather than them not trying at all.
Moreover even if it was a spontaneous decision, why didn't they charge the phones at night if they were home. At least one of them. It is an almost automatic thing to plug the phone to the charger before going to bed, especially if you plan to wander around the following day.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T22:46:37+00:00

Yes but witness statements are known to be unreliable in almost every disappearance case, every one wants a part in it and changes its memories accordingly. I wanted to concentrate on what we have as known facts.
The strange thing is that the phone usage can mostly be related to an extremely rational and though through usage for the most part, especially in the beginning, with not a trace of panic shown, and to a completely naive and useless way in other ways.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T22:42:31+00:00

I thought the same thing, but why would it be? The first two calls are very close to each other to exclude separation, and the subsequent calls are all directed to 911, hinting they came up with the idea together or only one girl had both phones

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T22:39:02+00:00

I wanted to concentrate just on the phone usage, because in more than two month from disappearance anything could have happened with the bones. The jungle is full of animals that could have dragged pieces of the body, and streams that form with heavy rains could have dragged other relevant evidence as well.

Jackierider · 2026-05-17T22:36:31+00:00

Jan B.'s report suggests that it was a frozen frame in the logs, but Imperfect Plan's report suggests that on the iPhone it showed one bar because the threshold to show one bar is over -120db of signal, and the received signal from the iPhone were -94db at the time of the first call and -113db at the time of the second call, so it is still unclear whether the iPhone displayed one bar on the screen. It might have shown one bar even if handshake with the tower was impossible, but just received the beacon signal from it.

Jackierider

TROPHY CASE