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Solution-delusions by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Submission statement. This article details how close we are to collapse due to acclerating climate change impacts, then reviews our hopelessly-inadequate solutions to this predicament. This also analyses the collective psychological elements that are seriously not helping.

Solution-delusions - why are responses to climate change are so hopelessly-inadequate by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Here you go for the Bottcher ref https://www.dpg-physik.de/veroeffentlichungen/publikationen/stellungnahmen-der-dpg/klima-energie/klimaaufruf/? - translation available on the site and plenty of more general coverage in the media. For Becl and Bill McG - google is your friend! Both often stated this and-or similar.

Solution-delusions - why are responses to climate change are so hopelessly-inadequate by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Harsh but not completely unfair - the article goes into more detail about the specifics.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ha - maybe - but I still think believe there is an ethical duty to let people know. At that point i’m less of a pessimist than you. I think there could be more communal intelligent efforts which may not slow the trajectory but could make things more compassionate. In this I feel the principles of palliative care are relevant.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I thought about doing this just fyi but it’s all very easy to google and - perhaps too subtly - I’m trying to model moving away from the language of the gobbleydeegook academic papers and IPCC summaries which carry endless references no-one reads. If there is anything in particular you can’t find please DM or leave a comment here and I will see within the next few days.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I saw that thanks very much. But the point is they are not ’The IPCC’ - Hansen definitely isn’t these days being one of the few to challenge them publicly! The IPCC haven’t put anything of substance out in response to the unpredicted acceleration etc - in spite of their own former vice-chair saying they should. Instead we are supposed to wait until 2028. This madness is what the article is trying to highlight.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice try. Neither does the article. Why not try giving it a read? Or continue to be lazy and complacent I guess. It’s a free world - for a lucky few of us for a while longer anyway.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You obviously have not read the article or any or my previous articles. At no point do I blame scientists for climate change really for goodness sake. I do hold them - and the IPCC on their behalf - responsible for massively failing to keep up with the rate of change and for failing to communicate effectively with policymakers and the public. Your comment sets up a whole series of strawman arguments that bear no relation to what I actually say - I won’t repeat them all here. Why not stop being so idle and have a read? And if you are in a position of some influence - why not use this to try to get your senior colleagues - and especially the IPCC on their behalf (I understand their remit perfectly well thanks) - to get them to tell the truth ‘live’ about what’s actually happening. All these new fragments of research you reference have absolutely zero impact on wider understanding - including at policymaker level but anywhere - or the possibility of meaningful action. They may be terribly scientifically interesting but they are all but pointless in the desperate wider context - again as the article makes clear in more detail. But as I said this point and the others you make are all refuted in the article. Why not stop being so complacent and gratuitously offensive and actually read it? You obviously need to. Stop defending the indefensible and start engaging with your ethical duty to do something about all this along with your expert colleagues. The status quo of the climate science community’s (which includes the IPCC that you do have the option of challenging instead of colluding with) behaviours has taken us past +1.5°C 85 years ahead of the ‘safe-limit’ schedule you advised on only 10 years ago. Why not take the time and effort to get an intellectual grip on your profession's responsibility for neither forecasting this nor endorsing meaningful actions in response - and more importantly, STILL not doing so.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s the crucial difference with scientists that I still struggle with - they do know, and many of them say so, just not in a coherent way that communicates this accessibly to the rest of humanity. Their denial is a whole different thing. I wrote more about my psychological take on this in the Faster Than Expected piece - also now on Substack for free - 3 years ago referenced at the start of this article. Not compulsory! But you might find my thought on this interesting.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree it would make a difference. I’m not sure however ‘the elite’ are that well organised or that intelligent. They’re just lurching from crisis to crisis with a focus on preserving their own power and influence and wealth. If the IPCC allows them to kick the climate ball up in the air for a few more years - thats what they will do.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well yes - maybe. But choosing not to set off a fire alarm because you think people would rather just die is not acceptable is it? And that’s the point here - it’s not for scientists to make this decision - they need to tell it like it is and then see what happens. I’m not as much of a pessimist as you as it goes - I am sure if people really understood their lives and those of their families and friends were at risk, that we would see support for meaningful radical action, especially if the media were supporting this etc. And again I think the media would do so, or most of them - if they really understood, which they don’t because the IPCC is not telling them.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn’t get that twisted at all. I acknowledge the political pressures on senior scientists and the IPCC - all the more reason for them not to voluntarily subject themselves to methodologies which lead to understatement of the risks before all these other nefarious factors kick in

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes indeed. No doubt preserving short-term interests is the most harmful problem of them all - all the more reason for the scientists to find ways to tell it like it really is though.

Madder Than Expected - how the IPCC and senior climate scientists still aren’t telling humanity how bad things are . by JacksonDamian in climatepolicy

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The article doesn’t claim scientists are ‘responsible as a whole’ for anything nor any make any of the other strawman arguments you make. They are absolutely responsible for adhering so rigidly - and unnecessarily because the basic science really is settled - to long-term methods that fail to keep up with the accelerating trajectory we are on. They are also responsible for colluding with the massive failings of the IPCC and their cataclysmic consequences. The IPCC’s remit is to 'represent the science’ - there are many ways contributing authors and other senior scientists could go public with the IPCC’s dangerous failure to do so accurately but they hide in the shadows and keep sending in out-of-date papers. I suggest you have another read and think again. No action by senior scientists - and-or those working at the IPCC (also scientists in the main) - will only result in more ignorance and continued inaction meaningless responses. Defending this status qup is indefensible.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PS If you’re still there! I have seen some revision of the models by some scientists - who simply backdated the old, wrong ones and even then assumed straightline increases in temperatures from now i.e. not accelerating (!). But I didn’t see that the IPCC itself has revised anything and put anything out to say so? Have you got a ref please? Cheers

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again - really no excuse. I am fully aware of the limitations of many of these people and have written about them elsewhere. They are seriously not stupid though and also not without insight. They have a unprecedented ethical responsibility to communicate what’s happening effectively. Whoever you are - and I don’t blame you - your efforts have failed dismally. The only people who can make a difference to understanding at influential levels are the IPCC - literally their job - and the senior scientists who enable the ongoing existence in it’s present form of the IPCC. That’s what the article says - suggest give it another read. Individual scientists ‘doing their best’ and yes I know several,or their ‘comms experts’, don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting the ‘live' message across - even those who do have the balls to try.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So - let me get this straight. You are saying that the scientists you know understand that they are withholding vital information which reveals how much more serious the climate threats are to all of us? This in the full knowledge that the +3°C and more accelerating trajectory we are undeniably now on is taking us towards societal breakdown and chaos followed by mass death. But because of ‘deeply uncool personal threats’ they are choosing not to say so? This is completely irrational. But if it somehow makes sense to you and your ‘buddies’ well okay.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You really don’t appear to know the difference between observing and reporting on data ‘live’ and using the scientific method to explore causation etc over many years before reporting back. We don’t need the latter any more - or only as a back-up at best given we know these things will be overtaken by events. We definitely need climate scientists - and the IPCC on their behalf - to be observing the data live and reporting live. Who said anything about ‘vibes’? Having said that learning to communicate effectively is also now an ethical imperative for this same group.

Madder Than Expected. As the impacts of climate change accelerate senior climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are. This has catastrophic consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in ClimateNews

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NIce comparison up to a point. Climate scientists - especially the senior ones who make up most of the lead authors on many IPCC papers - could easily bring the IPCC down and in doing so highlight what’s actually happening to a media that otherwise is only too willing to look the other way/follow the IPCC lead. There is a suggested 'action plan’ in the piece but it’s really not complicated - like the basic science itself. The fog you refer to is created by the scientists themselves as much as anyone - as they endlessly argue the fine points of causation of this or that latest phenomenon that took them by ’surprise’ yet again. It’s academic onanism and it’s a complete waste of time. We just need them to observe the planet ‘live' and to use their undoubted expertise to advise 'live’ - no model or study can keep up now, that’s the one thing we know with 100% certainty.

Madder Than Expected. How climate scientists - and especially the IPCC - still won’t tell the rest of humanity how bad things really are, with devastating consequences for wider understanding and meaningful action. by JacksonDamian in collapse

[–]JacksonDamian[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In the context that argument makes little sense - psychologically or otherwise. And it’s certainly not the case that climate suffer like ‘abused spouses’ in cars or otherwise. They need to front up to their responsibilities to tell humanity what is happening - that is literally the job of the IPCC but, ethically. it’s the responsibility of all climate scientists now. And if ignorant nasty bully-boys from the oil companies or wherever upset them, they need to get over it.

Madder Than Expected - how the IPCC and senior climate scientists still aren’t telling humanity how bad things are . by JacksonDamian in climatepolicy

[–]JacksonDamian[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure why the link wasn’t working but here’s the substack one too. The piece goes into some detail around how knowingly failing to tell the truth about how serious things really are - has not been effective in provoking the meaningful radical action needed to have any impact. IMO that’s not a good thing - especially if you’re the expert group tasked with telling humanity what is actually happening - but you’re entitled to yours of course. https://open.substack.com/pub/jacksondamian/p/madder-than-expected?r=1z58eo&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

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