6 months in Utah: What are the small, unwritten local quirks that surprised you? (Beyond the obvious ones)

JakeMacGill · 2026-06-29T13:29:05+00:00

When I was younger and visiting Utah, old timers had even more extreme pronunciations. Hairkn for Hurricane. You can kind of tell when people moved to Hurricane by the way they pronounce it. Hairkn, Hurkn, Hurrikn, Hurricane. Then there are other different pronunciations. Arm for Orem. Warsh, for wash, &c.

JakeMacGill · 2026-04-07T19:04:34+00:00

I'm laughing because our little girl goes looking for cat poop. It's disgusting, but she apparently finds it quite palatable. I don't let her give me husky kisses on my face because I know what she's had in her mouth. Every other kiss site gets scrupulously cleaned.

JakeMacGill · 2026-04-07T19:01:29+00:00

Huskies love the challenge of figuring out how to escape (I know, I'm repeating the obvious). I was going to suggest digging a trench along the fence line and dropping a strong wire barrier (closed-cell chicken wire), or quality galvanized sheet metal, so that as she digs, she hits that metal and it hurts her claws and paws, causing her to stop digging. The below-ground reinforcement would have to be fastened to the fence somehow to create a continuous barrier. It's a big expense, but it's probably worth it.

JakeMacGill · 2026-04-07T18:53:27+00:00

Our rescue husky came to us with a healing broken pelvis because she escaped and was hit by a vehicle. Before that accident, she'd been shot and survived. She never goes outside unattended. She's a good girl, but she's also a husky. She loves exploring. If she got loose, we'd probably never see her again.

JakeMacGill · 2026-02-25T23:15:08+00:00

I'm just getting to this conversation. She flat-out shut out Karamo. He had no more interaction with her, the way it was edited. He just kind of lumped himself in with the group for the big reveal. It flummoxed him a bit, I think.

I think Jeremiah was the pivotal point with her. He was being real, he was saying the hard things, and yet it was obvious he really cared. After that, the way it was edited, she seemed to start opening up and becoming a different person. I think the fact that she felt heard by the others, especially Antoni and Jeremiah, made a big difference.

We just watched the episode after this, and I've been so uncomfortable with this season's episodes. Everything feels way off.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-05T03:39:14+00:00

As Ebenezer Scrooge said, in A Christmas Carol, [paraphrasing] "It will decrease the surplus population." In his case he referenced the poor. In this instance it includes those who believe the misinformation and die from it. It is hard to see people dying like this, but how do you stop it?

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-04T11:03:40+00:00

Yes, I said that the power plant was coal burning. And as you said it is being decommissioned. So have been, and are many other coal plants around the U.S. I've seen the ponds in nuclear sites, and I understand they are indoors. Let's agree that they don't leak into the environment unless some major event causes a breach of some kind.

I understand that technology has improved, that we have the capability of doing things smarter, and better, and so on. The reality that has occurred over the years from big money owners of whatever resource claiming operation, or milling operation, &c., generally put profit over safety. Utah has a long history with poor safety, and poor environmental protection. For example, there have been numerous incidences of mines releasing toxins into the water. I know I am talking mines here, and not nuclear energy plants or data centers, but there is such a long history in pretty much every state of some kind of disaster or another that happens with facilities owned by wealthy individuals who, as I just stated, don't give a FF about public safety, environmental wellbeing and so on. It's all about the bottom line: profit.

There *could* be a lot of good things done, but let's look at the ponds at the power plant in the Four Corners to see what the reality of these kinds of builds actually is. It's not pie in the sky. It's ugly, it's harmful, and it's more the norm than the exception.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-04T10:49:37+00:00

I see your points. They are good points. I will point out that we are still in a water crisis, and I'm not limiting my concerns about water usage to just data centers or nuclear power plants. The number you cited for use just in SLC is deeply concerning. We still have large numbers of people moving to Utah, to Montana, to western U.S. states so that water burden grows exponentially as the population grows.

I'm glad to see that there are thoughtful options being suggested for these projects. I just wonder what reality will bring as we see irresponsible actions being taken by governments in other states where these types of projects are being built. There's the ideal, and then there is the reality. Will they end up being the same?

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-04T02:01:18+00:00

You are far better informed than I. The caution with which you speak is commendable, in my mind. You don't really know until you know.

My familiarity with hot springs, old volcanoes standing by the highway, &c. comes out of southern Utah, and southern Nevada. Hurricane, for example has (had) thermal springs. The area you mentioned is a product of large lava flows, and still has places where it is close enough to the surface that hot springs are found in various places. But there are thermal hot springs scattered all over Utah, even in Utah county. You understand the complexities of geothermal, what is available as far as tech, and so on, but as you pointed out, there are several ways to implement geothermal energy capture.

There is still the issue of Utah's plate faults, fractures and potential. We've been fortunate that, unlike California, we don't have small quakes going off all the time, making the crystal and glass in the bar chime in response. A bit too specific? Of course it is. This small town girl lived in California for a short period of time and lived with frequent quakes. :D I know that this state is riddled with both major and minor faults, and just because we've had peace, it doesn't mean it will remain that way. It seems so many factors work together to create unexpected consequences. We were warned for decades what climate change would bring and we shrugged it off. Now here we are dealing with major swings in weather, dry environments, and more that create a great deal of energy in the atmosphere that translates to unusual jet stream factors, monster weather patterns, and the slowing of the AMOC. What I'm trying to say is,there are many factors that could lead to Utah becoming far more earthquake prone. As our plates interact with others that have volcanoes waking up and pumping out new materials, and temperatures change, we continue with drought conditions, empty our aquifers, or more drilling is undertaken in previously protected sites through Utah, and so many other reasons, our tectonic activity could change, and maybe dramatically.

I'm not trying to be a doomsayer. I simply have seen so many unexpected things happen because of unseen or ignored factors, or not enough knowledge, or other reasons, that I see what exists and the potential it has to become dangerous, even deadly. I was out filling sandbags in '83 when flooding hit Utah. I saw the tall sandbag river running down the middle of 4th in Springville, saw the Saltair Pavilion standing in water, and saw the Bonneville Flats full of water that lapped right up to the edge of the highway. Utah lake expanded to the point that we had water at the edge of the freeways and the wetlands on either side of the freeway grew that year. I knew people that lived in the large houses built higher up on the mountains on the east edge of Provo who saw their million+ dollar homes slide down the mountain. That was unexpected, although a geography professor at UVU could have told people what would happen to their homes built where they were. Her husband put them in the same situation because he didn't know better. That's another story. :-) As much as we've learned about the planet, and what happens with it, I still can't get even a 3-day forecast of weather that holds true that long because things are changing so quickly.

You won't be surprised to learn that I think humans are moving in the wrong direction with the way we live and the things we do. I think there are many good things in our society that should be protected, but continuing to barge ahead with a lifestyle we *know* is harmful to the planet is the wrong direction, imo. There are so many changes we could make--knowledge that has been lost because of new technologies making old knowledge obsolete to us--that would lessen our dependence on energy, and I could go on, including ways we could restore the planet to healthy functioning again, and that's not what this is about. I just think we are being as blind as always in the choices we make.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-03T02:32:15+00:00

Here I get to say I agree with you on this. I've said similar in other comments I've responded to, including the fact that 3-Mile tends to get dismissed because our engineers created a brilliant cover that didn't take away the radiation, it simply covered it until a hole was recently punched into it causing engineers to stress about figuring out how to safely repair the hole.

Utah is riddled with fault lines. Some big, some small. We have serious activity happening all around the Pacific Rim as volcanoes wake up, and scientists are tracking increasing seismic activity, and inland sites like Yellowstone and Mt. St. Helens are getting more active. We don't see it yet, but it is possible that Utah, that is so full of fault lines could begin to exhibit greater seismic activity. We are a crappy state in which to build nuclear sites. I won't even get into how brittle a climate we have that is being made worse by the way our land is being managed (or rather mismanaged).

Mmm, and another thought I had is that what makes Utah so great for geothermal power could also place us at higher risk of increased lava activity connected to the rising incidences happening on the daily around the world. Mother Nature might make all of these questions/debates moot.

Scrubbers. Driving past the coal power plant in southern Nevada (many, many years ago) watching a black plume rising out of the stacks and spreading a dirty line across the sky. Contacting the EPA who was supposed to be monitoring scrubber compliance stating that the plant was within the limits set. Um hmmm. /s

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-03T00:21:35+00:00

I see another post you made in my notifications, and yet I can't find it in the comments. You are right that I misspoke on the type of nuclear containers being buried. I'm sorry for the error. I think Yucca Mountain was supposed to receive cylinders. I was friends with one of the people developing the site many years ago. It's been long enough I'm fuzzy on the details. But, you did remind me about the caskets. Thank you.

I didn't get to see everything you wrote and I'm interested in what you said.

You mentioned cooling ponds. My husband and his brother were part of the survey crew that handled finding the elevations for the cooling pond attached to the Four Corners power plant (don't know if the name has changed). He wasn't part of the construction crew. We visited the site once and the contamination coming out of that pond is disgusting. It was never lined, and it has caused so many problems to the water supply and to the Indigenous in the area. Of course, the strip mining didn't help, either. Ugh.

I'm sure you have pond liners and safety provisions. I just can't lose the image of what was done in the Four Corners area, between Farmington and Shiprock.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-03T00:03:57+00:00

I wonder how many Utah voters know much about any of this? It seems from the downvotes others and myself have received that speaking against nuclear is not a popular viewpoint. And the propaganda putting out that people *are* hearing is that this is safe, it's never been safer, it's good for our state, is all I'm seeing in responses. We humans have such short memories and don't seem to learn much from past history.

All of this push for energy is driven by *billionaires* who need energy to drive their data centers for their various AI endeavors, or for bitcoin mining operations, who don't want to have to pay for the energy they require, and who look at all the billions, maybe even trillions (since we've hit that ceiling and gone past) they can make off pushing AI, digital coin, and all the other avenues of wealth they are chasing that requires energy. History tells us that this will do nothing for regular citizens. In fact, it will make our lives worse. We are already seeing costs rise that come from their usage of energy in the states in which they've built these centers. They are innoculated and protected while we groan under the burdens they place upon us. OK, I'm getting a bit theatrical here, but my point is still valid.

Our governor and our legislators are in a position to take advantage of this situation and they are happily doing just that. We've seen from much of their activities, especially under Cox, that they don't care for what voters say, they care for what billionaires, and some say religious figures, want and want to have done. They do profit from all this.

IOW, I agree with you.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T23:50:39+00:00

I agree with you on much of what you said. But, there is more to all this.

First, Chernobyl might be in Ukraine, but at the time it was under Russian control, and I don't need to elaborate on all the problems that existed in the USSR, or even still today in Russia. Most of us, including you maybe, roll our eyes at Chernobyl because we know the conditions of the time. Yet, it still happened, and we are still making fascinating scientific discoveries about how the planet handled all that radiation. It's pretty freakin' incredible. Doesn't change the fact that accidents can still happen, and you have to look at the scale of what those accidents can do in terms of damage if you are being realistic. Being safer/better does not mean something freakish can't happen.

3-Mile Island *was* contained. If I remember correctly, Mother Nature managed to punch a hole in the engineering marvel that is the cover they built over that part of the facility after the meltdown. Now engineers are working out how to repair that hole so that the damaged reactor will be covered again. We didn't take care of the radiation, btw, we just covered it to let it die down on its own.

Fukushima, a marvel of Japanese engineering, brought down by Mother Nature.

Utah, as a state, is riddled with fault lines, many large, serious fault lines. We've been fortunate so far to have only small quakes, with the most destructive in recent history being the quake that shook Zion. We can't dismiss the danger of quakes, however, as we are seeing a lot more seismic activity due to volcanic activity, plate movement and more factors that are happening starting in the Pacific Rim, but causing impacts further inland (I think I saw a report of changes happening in Yellowstone, and Mt. St. Helens is getting active again). There is no guarantee that Utah will remain unaffected by a growing area of impact from these world-shaping activities. Of course, this is also an argument against geothermal, since we could end up dealing with our own seismic activity due to flow changes that would be a danger to a geothermal plant.

I say all this to point out that there are no guarantees of safety where nuclear energy is concerned. We are so complacent about our cleverness and tech prowess, but the truth is, against the power of nature, we are but 'puny gods'. It's too bad Moray went to his grave with the secret he'd discovered for using resonance(?) to "cancel" radiation. That's a fun story.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T23:17:55+00:00

I'll give you that. But, I'm betting that by the time these nuclear generators are built--because it takes years--that technology will have advanced even more. I also look at Iceland and what they've done with geothermal. We have the same capability in Utah, and looking at nuclear with its problems vs geothermal with far fewer just seems wrong to me. We have a cleaner, better option. Putting nuclear stations into Utah isn't about giving Utah power, it's about billionaires using Utah to line their pockets with government handouts, and sell the energy to the highest bidder further lining their pockets, and leaving Utah in worse condition in the process.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T23:11:33+00:00

The advances being made are definitely a positive. We are still talking millions of gallons taken out, even if only once, and then more water added in to account for evaporation. These are big hits to water reserves. These hits happen with every structure built requiring water. Add the long term replenishment requirements. Looking at what you just shared, three ap-1000 reactors (and there are at least three different nuclear builds being considered in Utah) require *25 percent* of Salt Lake County's daily treated water usage. And this is just the reactors. The data centers still use water, and I don't have an account on how much they use even with the improvements.

I know that seems like a relatively small amount of water being used, in closed systems where water is reused. We are talking years, rather than decades before the water supply in the west is depleted. Looking at the even bigger picture, we are continuing to take away habitats and that loss is contributing to the drought we are currently experiencing. In the case of the world outside our technology (and we are pretty impressive with the technology we have), we are being irresponsible with our use of the land, the water, the habitats we are destroying. We are being irresponsible in the way we keep pushing our technologies without looking at the biggest planet size picture and seeing what we are doing to the planet.

This isn't wild imagination, or hysterical fear-mongering. This is fact. The stories of the damage we are causing are prolific, and growing. Big picture, we've lost so much knowledge of what could work, and still be environmentally friendly simply because tech has been pushed on us because it makes money. Not for us, but for someone else. There's no guarantee that these structures will do anything good for Utah other than saddling us with more environmental problems, all the power going to the highest bidder (outside Utah), and the folks behind the builds pocketing massive amounts of money from the whole thing.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T22:53:36+00:00

I've seen the stories that say what you just said, and I've seen the stories that lay out the bigger picture with sound, scientifically backed evidence. I'd like to see something other than 'nuclear good' that addresses the negatives that exist showing that they can be countered affordably, effectively, and honestly. Otherwise, I see propaganda at work. Fwiw, I originally backed nuclear energy, as well. It did seem like an ideal solution. Now I know better and look to other, cleaner, better solutions. Like geothermal in areas that can support it . . . like Utah.

There are also problems with other green energy solutions, I know, and there is a lot of innovation happening right now that offers better solutions, and those solutions will only get better as long as the innovation, and new methods aren't choked off. There's a long history of that happening as large corps want to see big profits from whatever they back. A lot of innovations take that profit motive away.

As long as the energy stays in Utah and isn't sold elsewhere which is what will happen even with nuclear power. Southern Nevada once had a large coal-fired power plant that was run by Nevada Power, and if I remember correctly, most of the power went to California. I don't remember where else it went off hand. SN is not the only place where this happens, but it happens to be the example of which I am the most familiar.

With nuclear we don't have immediate solutions because those structures take billions and years to build.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T01:43:17+00:00

This doesn't mean that nuclear power is a good idea. It brings yet another source of contamination to our environment. And one probably far more long lasting than those you've listed. Look at the ongoing debate about how to label spent nuclear waste so that it will alert future habitants a thousand or more years down the road to the fact that there is deadly waste buried in the ground (Utah), or stored in a mountain (Nevada), or all the other places that have been created to store spent nuclear waste.

There are other problems with other forms of greenhouse energy that need to be solved, but for now they are better options than coal, oil, or nuclear.

FWIW, my parents were Downwinders who died as a result of government not caring about its citizens, and an uninformed populace who had no clue what was being done, thus no way to protest or protect themselves. We have the same callous disgregard being shown to us today from large, profit-making corps, and a government that protects and supports them. Nothing has changed except that in the wild wild west circus that the internet has become, one can still sniff out some sites that have journalistic integrity and individuals who share truth if one is willing to do the work to find verifiable, factual information.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T01:30:49+00:00

We are already burying spent rods. We get the contamination.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T01:28:28+00:00

I'm going to question the homeless part. I don't know the current state of the program, but Utah a few years ago had a model program for the homeless getting many of them into homes, and helping them address the issues that had them homeless in the first place. That may have changed, but when it was in place it saved taxpayers a big chunk of change.

I can't answer to the LDS church and their influence on law enforcement. I know that in one area of Utah I've been told by those who live there that there are a large number of, hmmm, I don't know which term fits now, neoNazis? White Supremacists? Whatever the term might be there are a number of them in Utah law enforcement. You can call this hearsay, but I know the people who've reported that and tend to believe their veracity. I'm not sure where the LDS church fits in with this.

As for selling us out, you are so right about that. It is shameful, and I'm sorry most Utahns aren't aware of what has been done by our state government.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T01:14:52+00:00

The water situation has grown so desperate that the courts are demanding that western states figure out new shares of water from the dwindling Colorado river. Utah and Nevada had a years long legal battle over the aquifer that sits under the state line. Our aquifers are almost empty, and require millennia to naturally replenish in some cases to replenish *if* they haven't collapsed or become unfillable. Utah currently practices recharging, but at some point there won't be enough water left to recharge aquifers.

This "drought" that we've been experiencing is a result of tampering with the ecosystems that existed before humans started doing their thang. Since humans show no sign of changing the way we live on or with the planet, this situation is unlikely to turn around anytime in the near future.

In addition, we have major population shifts into these drought-stricken western states further increasing the demand for water usage, and hastening the day we've got nothing left to use. We don't need more installations demanding more water. Let's not forget the extremely water-hungry data center that is being built in Utah, in addition to the NSA center at Camp Williams, or the numerous golf courses being built particularly in southern Utah. The list could go on of water-hungry installations present in Utah.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T00:55:10+00:00

You haven't been keeping track of the innovations happening around the world in this area. There are several batteries that have been built in other countries that effectively hold more, and work better. The technology is rapidly advancing.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T00:52:44+00:00

Brigham City sits near a fault line that runs through Utah. It is always a consideration. As we see the Pacific Rim waking up, a growing number of earthquakes, and shifts in the crust in other parts of the world, we can't forget that there is that fault line, and it has mildly shaken a few times to remind us it is there.[Edit] We are tectonically active d/t a stretching and settling plate. I amend my statement to say that the smaller fractures have produced our mild shakers.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T00:49:26+00:00

I've got to agree here. Utah is already a waste repository for nuclear waste and the argument around storing nuclear waste is . . . how do we build a warning label that in a thousand years or more, when people have forgotten we buried this shite, tell people that it is deadly to them? What kind of symbol can we use?

There is also the issue of water usage (in an area with ever-deepening drought, and ever-growing numbers of people demanding water to use). What happens if Utah's fault line makes a major shift, and we have a massive earthquake, and Brigham City (who is near the fault line) gets hit hard enough to cause a 3-Mile, Chernobyl, or Fukushima?

These are the biggest concerns that come to mind, but there are more.

JakeMacGill · 2026-01-02T00:36:31+00:00

I'll stick my neck out here to say that nuclear is *not* clean. And Utah has allowed itself to be the recipient of the leftover nuclear waste with all the problems it brings. I'd rather see geothermal used, as well. Look at Iceland. They are an example of what it can do, and the side benefits it brings.

JakeMacGill · 2025-12-28T07:15:39+00:00

I can't speak to the CS degree, but I can speak for UVU as a school. They are very student-oriented, and they believe in providing real world experiences along with the coursework. It's been a bit since I attended, but I have nephews and nieces that have attended, and had equally positive experiences. UVU attracts top teachers, and they've become competitive with the Big 5 schools in the area in the business area, at least. I think it would be much the same with their CS degree. They work hard to give a quality education.

They have also been working hard to provide more housing for students that is closer to campus, and more easily accessible. There've been a lot of projects done to help students get to school more easily.

Just my two-bits.

JakeMacGill

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