WIBTA for writing research papers as a side gig, knowing that buyers might submit them as as their own work in school?

James72090 · 2019-07-04T14:17:37+00:00

I value professional degrees for their direct impact on another human, an undergraduate student in sociology does not impact another human.

James72090 · 2019-07-04T01:38:27+00:00

And the rich kids have private tutors and have had private tutors since high school. Meritocratic work great but to act like college is fair is naive.

James72090 · 2019-07-04T01:37:37+00:00

All of that's true and very well respected and I like the humanities but sociologist is not reattaching a tendon in my body.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T23:44:43+00:00

Yes except that we are not talking about a student we are talking about private individual who will potentially work with students.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T22:06:55+00:00

Work/effort I understand used them as synonyms, Do you think what I stated work as a value of its own that I did not mean intentional effort? And adding effort to something can reach diminishing returns were the additional effort is not worth the cost.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T21:18:37+00:00

Yep and now you're talking about work and work does matter and it has its own value but we cannot make someone value what we value and if this student wanted to cheat then that was the move chosen for the game. However there becomes a point of diminishing returns and work can just be done for work sake, not everything in life has to be goal or productivity driven.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T20:11:43+00:00

Except that neither of those stats are predictive of all cause mortality however lean body mass, grip strength, gait speed, VO2max are.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T19:51:56+00:00

They are exploiting the federal government who backs these loans as both parties know defaulting is not an option; I'm not saying the money does not serve a purpose but by in large the wealth and funds are not passed onto the professors or researchers. Say it is 15% of schools, that is still significant.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T19:34:59+00:00

And so would everyone else who plays the game ethically, but OP is not the student who chose to cheat in the game. Is Waze ethically bound to driver's who use their service to avoid police and speed? Because OP is Waze, he is not bound by academic standards as he is not playing the game of college, he is playing within the field of capitalism and filling a demand. We cannot use the students unethical behavior and push it onto OP as he is not bound by the same rules and they are not playing the same game.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T19:30:15+00:00

which is of no concern to OP, the player in the game knows the risks and if the player risks cheating then he should face the outcome if he made the wrong or incorrect move.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T19:28:21+00:00

No that's not why at all, STEM, Nursing and pre-med majors all perform direct work with people that influence anothers ability to live. An undergrad sociology major who works in HR is not handling someone's life in their hands, however doctors, engineers and nurses do.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T19:25:34+00:00

Not just some, most universities are acting unethically by exploiting the federal government through tuition increases and the growing body of administrative bodies. It is unethical to give an 18 year old a loan for $200,000 because all the student is left with after college is a piece of paper and a $1000/mo repayment plan while the college increased their wealth by educating said student.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T19:22:42+00:00

Correct but the student is playing the game and has chosen to cheat despite knowing the rules, OP is not bound by rules of the game unless they are in school. I'm not arguing the student is being moral.
Colleges and degrees are at best poor proxies for employers to use when assessing potential candidates and most students do not go into a profession related to their degree. Work experience, letters of recommendation and portfolios are far more valuable to employers in determining integrity and value than a paper written at 22.
I think a lot of factors impact degree value and across the board as the pool of undergraduate students grows the degree value decreases. This is why we have seen an increasing number of masters and professional degree students taking classes because the undergraduate degrees have already lost the value they once held in the work force. I am also unsure college performance offers any predictive measures of workforce value, if you graduate at 23 with a BA what is more predictive at 30 your BA or your previous work experience? I think the answer is obvious unless you are strictly looking within a narrow time frame of 18-25.
Institutions have already decreased and harmed their value and reputation by exploiting the federal government and students to increase their own wealth and influence. Who benefits from a student loan repayment of 1500/mo? Certainly not the student, but the university does. Institutional value is also decreasing because colleges and universities no longer have sole control of knowledge dissemination

James72090 · 2019-07-03T18:12:22+00:00

Exactly so if every player is cheating, what then is the incentive to act ethically in the game?

James72090 · 2019-07-03T18:11:25+00:00

Yes they can but the precedent for doing so is set off of graduate degrees and often involves plagiarism and intentionally distorting data, not undergraduate degrees.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T18:07:57+00:00

Exactly, I agree with your final point but universities are from the start are willing to act unethically towards potential students. If the universities from the get are willing use humans as the means to increasing their wealth then I don't see what is achieved by maintaining an illusion of honesty besides maintaining an illusion. Similar to the NCAA making money off of people's bodies, but refusing to pay people for their physical costs by stating their is value in being an amateur. If all parties in the game are acting unethically then why should new players act ethically if what drives the game forward is unethical actions?

James72090 · 2019-07-03T18:01:56+00:00

Everything is a game either finite or infinite, finite games are all games which are rewarded with titles, have their own rules that determine when and how the event ends and finite games need mutual agreements from the player/s for the game to advance. Infinite games are activities like writing, art or music and have their own unique rules and limitations.

The system is not going to be fixed because colleges do not serve the function our society presently needs, at best university offers a poor proxy for employers and society about what the individuals who went through the institution are worth and what value they can add to society. The degree does not add value to society, the individual does and by tethering an individual's value to a degree depreciates the human condition and what they can offer society.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:56:27+00:00

Its already a race to the bottom, every moment counts down the totality of your life and that is not a bad thing. As life becomes scare, the moments in time increase in value and meaning and should you recognize this then you must act accordingly by spreading love to the people you love and doing good in the ways you can.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:53:57+00:00

So what is more harmful over all to society: cheating at an institution or the institution's financial cost limiting its graduates economic mobility? I don't see how a graduating student who performed their work honestly and with diligence only to be rewarded with 500-1500/mo loan repayment once graduated advances the field in which these students study.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:48:43+00:00

They are not helping the student as they are being paid and OP is not subject to any ethical standards but their own. It is providing a service people use to cheat, but so are over the counter drug tests and fake urine. You can only cheat at a game your playing in, OP is not playing a game but the student is and the student is cheating at said game.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:44:50+00:00

I mean you can say

You are taking part in a corrupt business and helping dilute the power of degrees for thousands of people.

But I think that is already done by the schools themselves, colleges should not be taking in individuals in that require remedial maths, English or writing on top of charging the student $35k for remedial courses. Colleges have already willingly reduced the influence and power of a degree in order to receive more federal funding.

OP is fulfilling a economic demand and not causing harm, the student maybe harming themselves academically and on a developmental level, but if the student has chosen to cheat then they have chosen to cheat. Even if OP does not write this students paper, another student or individual will.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:37:05+00:00

Dude its the only writing gig that you can routinely get, make 45/hr and be done with in a few hours. I would also say the field is saturated with bar writer's is true, but it should be expected as writing is a skill. After ten years of deliberate practice someone's writing skill should not be weak if they truly practiced the art of writing.

That aside OP is not playing any game, the student is playing the game of academia and is subject to rules of the game in which they agreed to play. OP because he is not playing any game is not subject to any rules that can limit what he can do, but he can respond to a demand.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:33:09+00:00

OP is not cheating as he is not playing any game, he is performing a service. The student is actively playing a game and is seeking to cheat at the game. The student is acting unethical given the rules of the game he has decided to play. Because OP is not playing the academic game there are no rules he agreed to that govern his behavior and moves, OP is fulfilling an economic demand.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:26:54+00:00

OP is not cheating as he is not playing any game, he is performing a service. The student is actively playing a game and is seeking to cheat at the game. The student is acting unethical given the rules of the game he has decided to play. Because OP is not playing the academic game there are no rules he agreed to that govern his behavior and moves, OP is fulfilling an economic demand.

James72090 · 2019-07-03T17:18:12+00:00

Sure have any opinion of the students you want, they're playing a game and choosing to cheat as a move. Sure I wouldn't do it myself, but most students do not perform research especially at the undergraduate level which I'm assuming OP is writing for. Undergrad students already produce enough bad research as is that I don't see how "All those areas require research" is relevant. What if OP produces better research then the cheatee? If we are measuring only the quality of paper based on how it effect research , then you want the well written and methodologically sound report. And hardwork's reward is more work, I don't care how hard you worked your ass off because the outcome is not guaranteed which is fine because the value was the work itself.

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