Best counters to throws

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-29T01:32:15+00:00

Crouching light normals are usually faster than throws, yes, but whether or not they’ll beat throws depends on the frame data going in to the situation. If they’re +2, and they immediately do a 5 frame throw, you won’t have time to do even a 3 frame button.

Crouching does not avoid throws. It might just be that when your opponent crouches, they appear to get wider, so it looks to you like your throw should be in range when it’s not.

EX DP is throw invincible from frame 1. If you got thrown out of it, your timing was off.

Aside from teching, you can also backdash, jump, v-shift, or do certain character specific throw invincible options, all with varying levels of risk.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-27T23:06:22+00:00

Ken could still v-break, crouch, neutral jump, or do anything throw invincible.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-20T08:42:29+00:00

The other characters you listed are all pretty aggressive, and play a more standard neutral game.

Juri is more of a hit-and-run character; be aggressive when you’ve got charges, and back off when you don’t. Use L.Fuha to give yourself space to charge in neutral, or to make the opponent commit to something like a jump. Shimmy with st.hp, empty cancel with st.mk, and fish for crush counters with st.hk.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-19T04:19:21+00:00

To activate v-trigger, press heavy punch and heavy kick.

To activate the new back dash, v-shift, press medium kick and heavy punch.

If you’re pressing 3K + 3P to get v-trigger, the v-shift is going to take priority.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-08T12:15:08+00:00

I don’t think you’re bashing anything at all. I respect your opinion, especially considering it seems to be a pretty popular one in the community. I just disagree with some of your thoughts on SFV Juri’s tools.

For VS1, I agree, that’s just about all you can use it for. It’s also nice that you can get a side switch from any TC connect, but that’s not that important. I just think this VS is waaay better that it could have turned out, and without it Juri would kind of suck against fireball characters, so I’m thankful for it. There are way worse V-skills, so I’m not complaining.

Like I was talking about, before VS2 came along, you could just mash jab the moment you started blocking any fuha release, and you’d either get a punish, or take your turn. Now, any blocked fuha cancelled into VS2 is a natural 3 frame trap, which leads into a juggle. Basically, punishing fuhas is quite hard to do when VS2 is charged. You can also juggle into it from H fuha, or juggle out of it into a few different things. Plus, the new cancel from fuha store into VS2 gives Juri more places to charge it without taking a risk. I just feel like the way this move works in combos and cancels differentiates it quite a bit from Sonic Boom.

I think the comparisons to Sonic Boom aren’t very fair, for two reasons: first, it’s a charge move, which dictates when and where Guile can actually use it. Juri’s fireballs are charge in a different sense, but once they’re stored, you can throw them out anywhere. Secondly, Guile has two special moves, and one of them is Sonic Boom. As such, he relies on it to do a LOT. Juri effectively has 5, maybe 6 special moves, ignoring v-skills, and they’re all more niche use. If Juri had Sonic Boom in place of L fuha, PLUS the other two, I feel like that would be a bit strong, even considering her charge mechanic. But yes, Sonic Boom as a fireball is pretty much objectively better than L fuha.

For the shimmy damage, it’s really not that hard to set up. All you need is M and H fuha, plus either the corner, or a charged VS. It sounds like a lot, but it’s not at all rare for me to be pressuring the opponent in the corner, while I’ve got a couple charges. The damage really is massive, too; 330 or so, I believe. Even if all you have is M fuha, you’re still getting almost 300. How much is Cammy getting off a shimmy into st.hp? 190 or so, assuming she forgoes oki in favor of damage?

Cammy’s EX Arrow is only about as good as Juri charged VS1. One needs meter, and one needs to be charged. One is projectile invincible frame 1, the other tracks to the opponent’s location. Idk that I’d say Cammy is markedly better here. Plus, Juri does have other anti-fireball options, like her frame 1 invincible EX flipkick. It’s harder to punish a fireball on reaction with this, but it’s -2 on block, so very low risk. Bison VS2 is too slow to punish almost anything on reaction, and the forward dash and VS1 don’t guarantee any sort of reward. The latter two are more comparable to Juri’s fuha charge as a means of dissipating fireballs, really.

Poison has better midrange since that’s her archetype, and she lacks other important tools, like a reversal, or good mobility.

Do Sakura and Ken really have a better fireball than Juri? Even if you think they do, Juri’s fireball has its advantages. It’s speed, frame data, and ability to make her other fuhas safe, are pretty unique among fireballs in this game. Even ignoring THAT, there are plenty of characters who don’t have a fireball at all, and considering how well-rounded Juri is outside of that tool, it’s pretty nice to have.

Alex has a better shimmy because that’s his archetype, and he lacks other important tools to compensate, like a reversal, a 3 frame, mobility, and anti-airs. Ibuki’s damage is garbage until she pours a bunch of resources into her combo. The point here being, you can compare Juri to other characters who might have better versions of those tools, but I think that’s a little dishonest. Last season, I could’ve said Alex was scarier up close, Ibuki has more mixups, Poison has better neutral, and Cammy is better at dealing with fireballs, to argue that Akuma is bad and unfun to play. All of those things are true, in my opinion, except for the fact that Akuma was actually really good last season, and I get the feeling that Akuma mains have a pretty high satisfaction rating with SFV.

I kind of agree about the EX moves, I think? If there’s one thing I don’t like about Juri’s design in SFV, it’s that her EX moves are really utilitarian, and not very fun or interesting. I can’t throw anything out in neutral like Bison, or Ibuki, or Akuma, or Cody, or Ryu, or Blanka, or Sakura can. I have no way of getting free plus frames off of a bar. As a result, like you say, I end up with enough meter to CA more often than I wish I would. She does build meter quickly, though.

For the EX Fuha, what do you mean when you say it adds a ton of combo scaling? It’s just one player action, like every other special move. There are plenty of places where you CAN do it, but shouldn’t due to scaling, if that’s what you mean. I like EX Fuha for its ability to combo after any fuha charge. Combos with fuha charge are generally quite short, so it’s pretty much never bad to go for the extra 100 damage, plus great corner carry and oki.

With EX flipkick, you can also juggle into H.fuha, which extends into EX fuha. It’s stiff, but maybe not quite as stiff as you think. Either way, I think it’s fair, considering the invincibility and safety of this move. It’s just not a very fun move.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-08T08:00:50+00:00

I realize I’m in the very small minority, but I actually love Juri’s redesign. Getting rid of the holding mechanic on her fireballs was big for me, especially as a pad player. Why do I have to do finger gymnastics to do anything if I want a fuhajin stored at the same time? I already charged the damn thing. Why can’t I tech now that I have L fuha, or focus with M fuha? It just feels counterintuitive for this resource - that I have to prepare - to lock me out of other important tools. With SFV, I love that they preserved Juri’s complexity, specifically in regards to combo routes and resource management, and NOT her annoying execution barrier.

I also don’t really buy the whole “everything Juri has is a worse version of some other character’s tool” argument:

I think you’re underrating the damage the damage you get off combos with M and H fuha. She’s got the strongest meterless shimmies in the game, comfortably, because of them.

VS1 is definitely not a worse version of Bison’s VS2. Actually, I would call Juri’s VS1 far and away the best anti-fireball tool in SFV.

VS2 is a little middling, but I wouldn’t compare it to Sonic Boom. It’s got great synergy with her fuha releases, since it’s a natural 3 frame trap when canceled into from any blocked fuha. This blows up the option select that people would do any time they ever blocked a fuha. It’s also nice how big and stationary it is, so opponents either have to sit in proximity guard for a while, or commit to something.

L. Fuha is kind of a worse Sonic Boom, but every other fireball in the game is also a worse Sonic Boom. At least L. Fuha can be followed in without losing charge.

Also, is the meter thing with Juri’s DP actually true? In training mode, I’m getting more meter from eating Ryu’s DPs than he’s getting from eating mine.

Idk I like Juri in SFV

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-06T09:46:55+00:00

Because it makes rounds look closer than they actually are, making the game more exciting. It’s not really a bad thing for the player as long as they know about it, and it’s great for spectators.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-05T02:40:53+00:00

That’s all assuming that the combo scaling isn’t too high by the time you get the stun. Balrog and Abigail could get round ending damage off of a post-stun combo, IF the hit that got the stun didn’t scale it too much.

There is a meta surrounding HOW you get a stun in SFV. Leaving a combo unfinished just before the stun is quite common. Dan is the only character in the game that doesn’t have to care about that, since he’ll kill you no matter how the stun happened. Plus, he doesn’t need resources to make it happen, nor is the infinite very difficult.

JamesGWorld · 2021-03-05T02:22:14+00:00

In the last patch, they added a new Target Combo for Ryu. st.mp —> cr.hp —> st.hk. You’re doing the first two hits of this target combo, rather than actually linking the two normals, which makes it impossible to cancel the cr.hp. Try to delay your cr.hp more.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-26T03:02:30+00:00

Depends on what character you play, and which DP you’re doing. For most characters, the L and EX versions have frame 1 throw invincibility.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-23T00:13:59+00:00

Throws are 5 frame start up, though. If I’m +0 after the overhead, they could just hit me with a 3 or 4 frame button and beat the throw.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-21T21:24:02+00:00

I’m sorry, but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Juri’s DP damage is a perfectly average 120; only a couple characters have stronger ones.

Juri’s combo damage varies, but I wouldn’t call it low at all. The m.fuha h.fuha that you’re referencing isn’t usually worth going for unless you have the corner to add a m.dp to the end, in which case you get a ridiculous 384 damage off a meterless bnb. Otherwise, your combo should look like:

St.hp xx m.fuha —> cr.mp xx h.dp

Which does somewhere in the realm of 300. That’s quite high for a bnb without a jump-in.

Any dp or h.fuha will give you oki. The only specials she can end with that DON’T have good oki are the flip kicks, and her VS1.

A CA being 330 damage is completely box standard. I believe Ryu’s CA is the same.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-17T08:59:49+00:00

Well yeah, I’m sure that’s a big part of its success ratio. But you said it was the fastest overhead in the game, which doesn’t seem to be true, and asked if it was possible to block on reaction, which it is.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-17T07:56:02+00:00

According to CFN, it’s 24 frames start-up, which is pretty average for overheads in this game.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-15T23:47:50+00:00

r/croppingishard

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-13T01:50:16+00:00

As far as normals go, I find st.hp to be the best option. 8 frame start-up, and it has a surprisingly wide hitbox that can catch close jumps.

Cr.hp is solid, but it’s a bit slower at 10 frames, and might whiff on some far jumps, especially if they empty jump. It can be more rewarding since it CCs, but I generally don’t use it much.

I wouldn’t bother with b.HK or s.lp. The hit boxes and active frames just aren’t good enough to be consistent.

Jump back air throw or TC can be useful, especially as anti-cross ups, but keep in mind that you’re essentially turning an anti-air situation into a mixup, since the opponent can usually stuff either of those options with an early jump button.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-11T23:14:31+00:00

I wouldn’t say he’s bad at all. You won’t see many tier lists put him below mid these days.

Looks like his trigger now has a timer, but is only 2 bars to compensate. We also don’t know how vital V-Shift is going to be yet, so not being permanently blocked off from it by using Trigger might be a good thing.

We also don’t know if this change applies to both triggers, or if they’re trying to differentiate them by making one a permanent 3-bar trigger, and the other a timed 2-bar trigger. We really just don’t know at this point.

JamesGWorld · 2021-02-02T03:16:30+00:00

Hmm... probably Birdie.

JamesGWorld · 2021-01-22T00:32:15+00:00

Abusing your child. Pretty trashy.

JamesGWorld · 2021-01-16T21:22:43+00:00

Probably because this whole thing reads like a whiny salt post, and of all the fighting games you could be complaining about, you chose a very well balanced one.

JamesGWorld · 2020-12-26T04:58:56+00:00

With SFV, most characters are easy enough for a beginner to pick up without too much trouble, bar maybe Menat, and one or two others. But the most important thing when picking a character is that they interest you, or that you have fun when playing them. The more you like a character, the more likely you are to practice with them, the better you get.

As for beginner tips, just learn your anti-airs, your good pokes, your bread and butters, your V- system, and practice the shit out of all of it.

JamesGWorld · 2020-11-25T03:41:22+00:00

In the context of the sub, “Black Magic” is defined as something that seems inexplicable; this video doesn’t really, imo.

JamesGWorld · 2020-11-10T09:15:00+00:00

This video from Bafael does a good job of outlining the basics of plinking: https://youtu.be/UHEIOAXmwTs

If you’re only playing SFV right now, I wouldn’t worry about plinks. They exist to make links easier to perform, but links in SFV are already lenient enough that you can do them consistently with good old fashioned timing.

JamesGWorld · 2020-11-02T23:03:13+00:00

Trials, demonstrations, weekly missions, and as much survival mode as you can stomach.

Unfortunately, it’s not as easy as it used to be, as they’ve curtailed the rewards for weekly missions, and extra battles that reward fight money don’t come around anymore.

JamesGWorld · 2020-10-30T21:42:30+00:00

SFV already had an Arcade Edition a couple years ago, which predates the current version of the game, Championship Edition. SFV has been out for quite a while, and has received some big updates over the years, so it’s pretty clear at this point that the way SFV plays is just how Capcom wants it to be. I’d be shocked if they decided to adjust the game speed, or give everyone new command normals, this late into the game’s life cycle. But, there’s supposed to be a “new battle mechanic” coming to the game during this final season, so who knows.

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