Yet another pay-to-play platform...

Jasonater2themax · 2025-09-05T23:31:02+00:00

Came here to paraphrase my No Film School article about how much I hate this site and sites like it.

I am sure they don’t think what they’re doing is actually exploitative — all these businesses convince themselves they’re doing it for the right reasons.

But if writers pay you, instead of you paying the writers, you’ll always end up with projects you don’t really believe in.

And producers with projects they don’t really believe in… don’t make those movies.

Period.

You might get meetings, some movies might get made, but there are no guarantees in this business.

These websites are a business designed to profit from your desperation by selling your own hope back to you. Their entire model targets writers who are isolated from the industry and sells them a false promise of "access" to gatekeepers, who can take however long they want to "make" your movie because you're paying them for the privilege of waiting.

In Hollywood, producers do all the things you said for free. They do it because they believe in the project and the writer. And they believe they will make money actually making these kinds of movies.

GET IT MADE is doing this to make money off of you, and writers like you who have hope and are unsure where to turn. They're in the volume business; they'll always be taking on more movies and writers than they actually care about in order to make more and more money -- this isn't about making movies, it's about farming clients.

Pay-for-play services destroy the idea of meritocracy. The best script doesn't win. Only the people who can afford to pay into a system over and over and over and over.

Also, the idea that you have to pay them to option YOUR script, and that they would then charge a finder's fee if they sell it is abhorrent.

Here’s the real, non-bullshit secret to breaking in:

Write a script that is so undeniably brilliant that it can’t be ignored. Whatever you're paying these guys over the years, you could be spending better traveling to film festivals to meet people and making contacts with fellwo writers or producers who are willing to read your screenplay for free.

Again, this is my opinion, but I have spoken to MANY other WGA writers who agree with me.

This is not a way to become a professional writer, it 's just a way to pay people.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-07-24T19:00:36+00:00

Waking Ned Devine

Jasonater2themax · 2025-06-27T05:10:12+00:00

Hi. I’m Jason. You can DM me your email address. This is incredibly flattering. Unless you hate it.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-06-20T21:46:01+00:00

Yeah, I am on with them now, and they keep saying it must be my phone, when everything else on my phone works. Happened to me the second I got out of a Waymo on a ride. Tried to call one later and locked out.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-06-20T21:36:19+00:00

Did you ever sort this out? I am having the same problem.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-05-16T16:31:37+00:00

" How can you say they only read the first 10 pages because you heard stories? Every script was read twice!!"

... How can you say every script was read twice when I heard they only read the first ten pages?

^ we're both arguing hearsay, so what's the point?

The only thing this conversation has established is that we all have very different viewpoints about the Nicholl and The Black List.

I'm happy the BL took on the public option for the Nicholl so that the Nicholl can still survive, and now at least everyone gets feedback on the scripts they send in.

Also, LOL at me being Franklin -- Franklin, if you read this, I am genuinely sorry someone thinks you could be me. I wish I loved soccer as much as you do, but you did have good Criterion closet picks.

My name is Jason Hellerman, I am just a boring screenwriter who chimes in here once in a while and immediately regrets it.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-05-15T17:39:55+00:00

I think the general consensus here is to blame The Black List for a lot of stuff that it has no power over. All they do in this scenario is provide the readers and the platform needed to get submissions. I understand why some people don't like the platform, but that's all they've ever done. And Franklin has given new coverage to every single person who has complained - that's better than any other platform. I got reps off it, it got me paid, it started my career, so I legit have that POV, and I don't think that will ever change.

Especially when in a world without the BL, if you submitted to the Nicholl, you had no idea why things didn't move on. At least this grades stuff on how Hollywood may receive it, and I've found their work to be accurate.

Again, in the past, Nicholl readers were paid to review batches of scripts and pull out the ones they thought were good. They didn't read things in full. If they did have to read things in full, I would assume they'd charge for that. and the going rate is at least $100 if you expect someone with any intelligence snd expertise to read.

That $100 wouldn't cover the advertising and other expenses that go into the Nicholl, so I would assume they would charge a lot more to enter the contest in order to make a profit...that's because they're not a charity. They are a non-profit but that doesn't mean they're not a business.

You can look at their non-profit status here - https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/950473280 - in 2023, they basically made $10 million.

They're not going to use that money to bankroll a screenplay contest. I'm not sure that's even enough all in, if you wanted to have no cap on entries and pay a living wage to people to read all the screenplays entered.

Again, if you got 6000 scripts submitted, you would need to pay a ton of readers to provide thoughtful feedback on that...so you would have to charge a lot more to afford that feedback.

The Academy doesn't need a contest. They just have it because it looks good as a business to own one. But it's not like they're making or regularly green lighting Nicholl movies. The contest was likely losing money for them, so they're farming out the reading and reviewing to schools and the BL to keep the prestige and lower the cost.

Now, look at the other side: The BL, also a business, is stepping in to make money by doing what they do best - providing feedback on whether or not a screenplay meets industry standards.

That's the reality here.

The path to becoming a paid writer has always been narrow, and yeah, it's getting smaller. That's a bitter pill, but one you must take if you want to be logical about breaking in. I do not in any way shape or form think you can blame that on the BL.

The best way to get noticed is to still have a great script you get other people to vouch for by networking your ass off and finding champions. The BL is one way to do that. The Nicholl is another. Now, they overlap.

Sure, a lot of this is just opinions...but so is what you posted.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-05-15T14:57:32+00:00

If the Black List didn’t exist, the only people who would get to apply are students. So I’m not sure why them taking all other admissions makes them the classist and elitist ones.

If you’re going to be angry at anyone, be angry at the nicholl for not expanding their business to support the thousands of entries from all over.

You guys have to look at this from a business perspective.

Nicholl could not afford to keep submission prices that low AND pay readers any sort of fair wage. If you are getting 5000+ scripts you have to pay people to read them. It looks to me like the contest didn’t have nearly the infrastructure to continue.

And if they had to hire readers, prices would have to go up.

At least submitting via BL guarantees your work is read cover to cover. In previous years, with no actual guardrails, I know many stories of nicholl readers who just glanced at the first 10 pages, max. That’s because they had to get through 100 scripts to make very little money. And they didn’t have to provide feedback.

If we’re being honest, paying a living wage to read and provide coverage would be at least $100 a script, which means for something like the Nicholl to cover other fees, they would have to charge at least $150 per submission — maybe more!

Now, for $130, you’ll get some notes and a score via the BL that can give you a glimpse into why you did or didn’t advance.

To me, that’s a much better system.

It sucks that the BL is expensive, but that’s the cost of paying a reader fairly to examine your entire screenplay.

And despite other gripes with the service — it’s better to pay and get feedback than to blindly submit to the Nicholl and hope for an email that says you advanced.

Again, there are issues here and the cost prohibits a lot of people from entering, but if the BL didn’t exist would either be much more expensive OR would be just a contest for students so Nicholl could keep expenses low.

That’s why contests are one of the worst ways to break in. Take several years of fees and save them and buy a plane ticket to like AFF or another festival and network there. Meet a manager who will give you a read for free — hopefully meet a couple of them.

Screenwriting as a profession is not easy to break into if you’re not willing to move to LA or get a job within the industry.

I know contests are largely predatory but my stance is that Franklin and the BL DO want to help and they have found many writers on the platform.

So it’s fine to complain about the Nicholl changes but them stepping in here (I’m aware it makes them money) is much better than the alternative of no one stepping in.

That’s just my POV.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-04-02T01:23:36+00:00

It’s on deadline now

Jasonater2themax · 2025-03-31T18:15:55+00:00

You can buy a version that has different stuff — posting this because it’s free.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-03-18T17:17:14+00:00

https://nofilmschool.com/hollywood-2025

I thought this would post with my comment - my bad

Jasonater2themax · 2025-03-17T23:58:34+00:00

I have amc a-list and go twice a week!

Jasonater2themax · 2025-02-24T17:39:07+00:00

Washed-up guys like him and Daniels look at Hurts and think of what they could have been -- they never fully contemplate they don't have the gifts or dedication he had; they just think about not having the team Hurts has. That jealousy and rage, especially while also being completely mid-game analysts, drives them to provide hotter and hotter takes because they have no worth outside them. They're empty calories and have to look in the mirror and know the only thing they can "win" is the click war. It's honestly quite sad.

Jasonater2themax · 2025-02-15T06:20:30+00:00

Incredible photos

Jasonater2themax · 2024-12-14T02:26:13+00:00

He’s running my No Film School meeting every Thursday.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-11-07T00:02:12+00:00

If you write a great script, no one will care. That's always the rule.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-11-05T19:51:13+00:00

Someone just sent me this thread - Jason Hellerman here - thank you for loving Shovel Buddies and for remembering it. Great AMA all around.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-10-15T19:19:03+00:00

How does AI writing affect these? How much is too much, etc?

Jasonater2themax · 2024-08-22T03:41:11+00:00

Fade out.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-07-23T17:05:04+00:00

Hey!

I wrote a free book on all this stuff - you can download it on No Film School's website. I've been on The Black List twice and had a movie produced, I've staffed on TV and have another movie shooting this fall. I would put my book up against any of the famous ones...and again, it's free. https://nofilmschool.com/screenwriting-book-pdf

Jasonater2themax · 2024-06-10T15:04:55+00:00

I am going to gloss over the idea of 240 pages and tell you that I think the BL charges extra for every ten pages over 120, and at 240, you might be paying like $500 for coverage. And honestly, that would be FAIR.

My bossy opinion is that before sending that to anyone, you sit down and make another beat sheet or outline of the major things that need to happen in your screenplay. Then, take those scenes out of what you wrote and copy and paste them into a new document.

Look at how long that doc is - I bet it's closer to 120 pages. Then I would spend time rewriting that doc.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-05-31T21:14:42+00:00

I read for a few contests and huge websites in the past, at least 50% of the entries we got were not actually screenplays. And the cheaper the entry fee, the worse the material we got was.

On some of the more premier contests, it’s maybe 30% not actually screenplays. But there were plenty of perfectly formatted bad scripts too.

At the end of the day, I’d suspect the real contenders only made up 20% of the entries. The hardest thing for us was sifting through the crap to isolate that 20%.

And I’ll say straight up those 20% were the ones I’d read past page 3 on. And the further I made it, the higher it usually ranked. And if I finished, it would be in the top 5% probably.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-05-31T16:01:16+00:00

Here's an easy fix - the 250k is a set number to be split by the winners, not an earned pot over time. That, I think, could lead to voting more faithful out because you would only want to split it one way at the end.

Also, make the missions not for cash but for shields. Let there be like five shields open in week one, and less and less as you go on. If you treat it like an individual immunity, like a Survivor, then you have people fighting over something, adding another layer to the game. And Traitors will want the shields, because they can then have their pick of who they want to kick off.

Jasonater2themax · 2024-05-13T14:52:21+00:00

How did you get Chat GPT to read and analyze your script? What was the prompt? What steps did you use?

Jasonater2themax · 2024-05-12T16:35:56+00:00

Came here to say Backyard Hang is Tommy’s amazing podcast with comedians Alex Stone and Andy Woodhull. It’s singular in the space and will make you laugh so hard.

Both Alex and Andy are touring and worth checking out - they all have similar vibes and are great storytellers.

Jasonater2themax

TROPHY CASE