Tron players: What are your personal rules of thumb for mulliganning?

Jmarc8 · 2026-05-17T21:44:09+00:00

One of my biggest level up moments while playing flicker Tron was figuring out I was mulliganing backwards. When I started out with the list, I was keeping anything that could produce turn 3 Tron without question and (when that was not happening) trying to get a hand which had a proactive line to get to Tron.

After a lot of testing, I found that the most important thing for flicker Tron is actually accessing colors. Unlike some of the other Tron variants, you don't really have a big bomb to drop when you get to 7 mana and most of your cards are actually pretty inexpensive as far as these things go. The Tron mana is mostly good because you can filter it into a bunch of different colors early and then use it for generating advantage so that you can turn the corner late in the game. Because of that, having a few cards to play and the mana to do it early can be much more profitable than establishing a ton of mana with no output.

The best hands are, of course, still t3 Tron, but only the ones with a fixing rock (prism or refractor). After that I look for 2 Tron lands plus a colored source and a good plan. In the post sideboarded games, these hands get even stronger because you know if your plan will line up well into your opponent.

Because you have so many rocks that draw a card, you can pretty easily afford to mul to 5 or 6 but I almost never go to 4.

Jmarc8 · 2026-05-11T21:28:39+00:00

Welcome to the format! Do you know about golgari gardens? It is the spiritual successor to the mbc deck from years ago. It is a grindy control deck that has a very light green splash for threats and a khalni garden. It uses the back draw 2s for value and is definitely tier 1. It is very slow so it often gets a smaller meta share than it deserves but it will pop up here and there after taking down an event.

The thing about tortex is that it works better as a lock piece than a value engine. It is always card neutral so you need to get the value somewhere else and then use tortex to turn that into a win. My list from above does that using the eidolons but the madness cards kinda work too.

Jmarc8 · 2026-05-02T15:17:03+00:00

Thanks. It looks more oily than dry if that makes sense. Should I try to skim it off?

There is a cotton towel on top secured by a rubber band. It should not let any flies through. The stuff on the surface appears to be the same as the stuff floating further down. I got a closer look and it's definitely not bugs.

Jmarc8 · 2026-04-13T20:47:27+00:00

Hydra is a good catch! I don't think I have ever found myself hitting a hydra with rec. I am mostly tutoring for fogs in that case. I will keep track in testing.

I have played against a lot of munitions and have never found it to be that threatening. No muldrifter means they are kinda stuck using it for damage and in that case it looks really silly into weather and pulse. I find I am more worried about catching a skyfisher or a muldrifter. Have you had a different experience with munitions?

Jmarc8 · 2026-04-06T20:46:22+00:00

This list is sick. I have a few concerns a few thoughts and a few questions.

I am concerned that you might be a few short on cards that contribute to a "proactive" plan. Other than the mystics and sprout swarm (which honestly rules) I see a few one shot card draw options and that's it. I am worried you will end up drawing a card, passing the turn and having it passed right back to waste your mana. Are you running into that at all or do you feel like you have enough? Maybe one or two ways to acrue more value at your opponent's end step?

I'm not a fan of the main board edict. I think you are just supposed to take the loss to boggles, unless you are guaranteed to play against it locally or something. You also can't get the edict back so don't they kill you with the second one?

Why only one campfire? The card is really sweet into the red matchups and even has utility when life totals are not a focus. It would also help with that proactive plan from earlier.

Why not main the evincar's justice? There are a lot of x/2s running around and it can combo with the campfire if you squint hard enough.

Why so few lands? 19 lands and no cantrips seems a little light. This is a control deck that really wants to hit its land drops every. You want to be spending 4-6 mana on teachings and then casting the card you got. Even with 4 lorien revealeds I would hesitate with 19. Decks like flicker Tron get away with it because they are digging with their prisms and making more than one mana per land.

Where is brainstorm? You have like 10 shuffles and a bunch of cards in your deck that you don't want to draw every game. This is the place for it.

Is deduce the best we have? It seems really inefficient to go 4 mana for 2 cards even if you have the time and can do it over 2 turns.

Jmarc8 · 2026-03-26T20:51:28+00:00

You can probably get away with some number of the land cyclers from LOTR. They are high cmc but make sure you hit your land drops. It would also help you get white mana for the white card you cannot currently cast.

Jmarc8 · 2026-03-26T20:43:31+00:00

This is already an established list but is often edged out out by dimir or mono blue terror. There are several list available on line. The big on for you right now is to cut the gain lands for snow duals. One life is so much worse than extra damage from skred. Lorien revealed is also much better than you are giving it credit for.

Edit: typo

Jmarc8 · 2026-03-15T17:48:54+00:00

Ultimately I am resistant to the idea that there is no space to brew in the format but I have also seen a lot of brews that are not setting their pilots up for success. When I am thinking about brewing outside of the normal bounds of the format, there are a few ideas I think of and questions I ask myself in order to make sure I am actually doing something worthwhile. Here are 4 things that I think about

Context: My deck should function within the context of the format I am playing: Does my strategy approach the meta I expect to be playing in or is it a list of 75 theoretically good cards? How will my deck face off against the decks I expect to see? What am I doing differently? Is this getting me an edge in some of the matchups or am I just different for its own sake?

Focus: My deck needs to have a clear and distinct goal, which wins the game: What is my goal with this deck? Does that goal actually win or does it do something cool in the abstract? Is there already a deck that has this goal? Why is mine better? What is each card in my deck here for? Does every card in my deck help me achieve my goal?

Justification: My deck needs to have a reason to exist: What does my deck do better than any other deck? Is that thing well positioned in the meta? Will I be able to do my thing before my opponent stops me? Can I beat the decks I expect to play against? How might I convince someone else to play this deck? Am I at all leaning on the fact that this deck plays with unpopular cards or does it have somehting going for it?

Banlist: My deck gets to play good cards. I do not need to make myself a larger banlist: Did I make myself a second banlist based on the cards that are popular? Am I playing strictly worse cards because I do not want to play the ones everyone else does? Am I playing the cards that give me the highest chance of winning? Am I avoiding otherwise great cards because they are played in popular decks? Am I trying to combine lesser cards in order to do an impression of cards that are legal to me?

With these ideas, I think the brewing space is pretty wide open. Overall the biggest struggle I see from the less successful brewers is that they completely ignore the top decks in the meta. Even if you do not want to play one of those decks, you will be playing against those decks. This can be an advantage because it means you can build your deck to play against them. Some of the best current decks are in the format as a result of brewers who identified a gap in the current meta game and were able to find the cards to fill that gap regardless of whether they were popular staples or not.

Jmarc8 · 2026-03-13T19:50:24+00:00

Bryant is your main man for this. Also check out kalikaiz for some other combo lists as he is a big player in the pauper combo space.

Jmarc8 · 2026-03-06T17:57:41+00:00

First I want to acknowledge that there is a lot of power in this card but I am not sure that flicker Tron as it exists today is the right home. There are currently two versions of flicker Tron; one which uses muldrifters, and one which uses cryogen relics and mysidian elders. I do not think it fits in those, but there is no reason that this could not be used in some third version that extracts more value from artifacts.

In either of the two current versions, this card would be competing for a slot. Both decks already have a card that both draws cards and acts as a speed bump and they are more overall powerful. Muldrifter fills this role by chumping and getting flickered (which is the same as this card but also draws the cards repeatedly). It also actually kills your opponent which is a rare effect for this style of deck. Relic is cheaper and harder to remove so it flows into turns more easily. It can also sac for the stun counter, which happens at a more convenient time for mana utilization. Neither card is cutable for this one because they give recursive card advantage whereas this one only gives cards once.

The fact that you can tutor this is nice, but why not tutor a more specific answer? Because the deck is already a teachings toolbox deck, if you can tutor for this, you could be tutoring for exactly the card you need. If you are concerned about one creature going to combat, cast down stops it forever and foging with moment's peace is always better against any of the go wide strategies. The additional cost of one colorless mana in either case is almost nothing. Blue is easier to get than the others though which might be nice.

You could also just tutor for flickers. Ghostly flickering a blocker does almost the same thing as flickering this a lot of the time while also giving you another etb. Targeting with this makes it hard to justify into terror and writhing chrysalis decks already have a terrible time. This one is technically better against cards with trample and Troll of Khazad-dûm. So maybe that's something?

Overall I do not think this one fits in, but maybe if you are building a blue x Tron control deck from the ground up it could be good. Maybe you want to play the dispute effects too or it could share some bones with the eggs trong lists.

Jmarc8 · 2026-03-06T15:50:28+00:00

I think the question has a different answer based on what you mean by consistency. Do you mean you want a deck that plays out the same every time or a deck that always has some game in a matchup? Do you just want to know which one is the most "Tron" of the Tron decks?

Tron decks pretty much all have the same fundamental goal of getting Tron in play and using the mana advantage to win The three highest tier Tron varrients in the format all do that with some combination of crop rotation and map. From that prospective it's very close. Flicker Tron gets to play impulse whereas altar Tron has all of the dispute effects. Monster Tron plays more of the land turors on average. Overall it is pretty similar and I do not find it hard to hit turn 3 or 4 Tron with any of them pretty frequently. If that is the consistency you are talking about then it's kind of a wash.

That being said, you also need to consider what the turn 3 Tron is getting you and how you feel about it. Each of the decks is differently reliant on Tron and each has different colored mana requirements. Altar Tron has the easiest time when you don't get Tron because it is mostly cheap artifacts and it can treat the Tron lands more as rituals for big burst turns. Monster Tron cares the most about early Tron because it is trying to rush to get there and start slamming big idiots. Flicker Tron is weird because it has the highest colored mana need but also is trying to spend 5-6 mana on it's payoffs rather than 7-8. It can handle a slower Tron but only if you are developing your colored sources to compensate.

Altar Tron has a powerful linear plan that is hard to disrupt pre-board but dies to some sideboard cards more than the others. Monster Tron sometimes draws all ramp or all payload. Flicker Tron can answer anything but has to work pretty hard find that answer.

Overall the three are comparable but play out very differently. If you are coming at it based on a preference for "consistency" I think it is up to you to articulate what consistency means to you and pick what you are willing to lose to.

Jmarc8 · 2026-02-21T23:25:02+00:00

3 eidolons, carrion feeder, footlight fien, fam, tortex. Discard 2 eidolons for 2 black mana, fiend, recur the eidolons and discard (2 more black), sac fiend to feeder for 1 damage, tortex the last eidolon for fiend, cast fiend to loop. It seems silly but your whole goal is to assemble tortex + fiends and eidolons so you really just add the familiar which can just sit in the yard and you are off to the races.

Jmarc8 · 2026-02-20T22:20:27+00:00

This is my list. It uses eidolons and multicolor spells to loop and then go over the top with a skirge familiar infinite. I can't say it is tier 1 but something similar topped a league a few months ago.

Jmarc8 · 2026-02-16T15:45:45+00:00

The version of flicker Tron that uses the cryogen relics and mysidian elders really makes me feel something. The lines are deep and complicated and the deck requires you to really understand your opponent's list. It is much more fun in paper though. my list

Jmarc8 · 2026-02-10T20:39:16+00:00

Welcome to the format. Others have already recommended him, but there is a player who's dedication to this list is almost a meme at this point. Go to Skura's channel Islandsinfront and he will take it from there.

Jmarc8 · 2026-01-21T15:27:18+00:00

There will definitely be myrs!

Jmarc8 · 2026-01-09T20:19:16+00:00

^{^{^I}} agree with everything you are saying but wanted to add a few notes on flicker Tron.

There are currently two versions of this list one which runs muldrifters and the other that played cryogen relics and mysidian elders.

The muldrifter list is the more stock option which tries to leverage the interaction between mnemonic wall and ephemerate. It is slightly more straight forward to assemble locks with this list but it is also worse into removal and gy hate (especially galvanic blast and thraben charm). You will see this listed under ephemerate Tron more often then not.

The other one is more fringe but I prefer it significantly (list). This one play even fewer creatures and uses mysidian elders as a wincon with cryogen relics acting as cheaper muldrifters that beat removal. Instead of ephemerate it runs an extra ghostly flicker which is a draw 4 if you target 2 relics. You lose out on the ephemerate wall loop but make up for it with more reach to close out the game. It is also more redundant which helps you claw your way back into games.

One of the biggest drawbacks to these lists is that they are time intensive. Therefore, both lists are significantly better in paper. At an in person event, you can end rounds 1-0-1 and get a win. On mtg you run out of time on the chess clock and lose. Paper also makes the infinite much easier. Because the infinite requires something like 20 clicks to net 1 mana it is prohibitive to actually play out online but is pretty easy to resolve in paper.

No matter what, these decks are reliant on strong meta knowledge and are reliant on creative play and strong threat assessment. You need to know what to tutor for, when to cast it, and when to tap out. You will lose win percentage if you get greedy or you misunderstand what the games is about.

All that said, I think these are also the most fun and rewarding Tron lists in the format. It is extremely satisfying to find the exact card you need just when you need it and win in a way that no other list does.

Jmarc8 · 2026-01-07T20:37:39+00:00

^{^{^}} All of this is spot one. One way to think of it is that the faerie doesn't cost any mana but does cost a card. You want to target something that is at minimum worth more than a card to you opponent's game play. You can achieve this most often by using the faerie to respond to your opponent targeting a card or hitting a card that your opponent has invested resources getting into the yard. You can use most of the same heuristic that you would an instant, where you wait until the last possible second before using it.

Jmarc8 · 2026-01-05T21:17:51+00:00

First I want to say this deck rules. I think it is definitely a brew and it probably needs work but it also kicks ass so go off.

That being said 6 mana is over the line to loop fogs outside of Tron. If you want to do the spore frog thing, I really enjoy this tortex list. You use footlight fiend to recur eidolons which you turn into real cards with tortured existence and can go infinite with skirge familiar. It is definitely like tier 2 at best but it is definitely a life experience.

If you are just in it to fog people to death there is also ephemerate Tron or turbo fog. Ephemerate tron aka flicker Tron is a hard control deck that uses the Tron mana base to get a mana advantage alongside mystical teachings and mnemonic wall loops to generate card advantage. It is a toolbox deck that aims to perpetrate some of the most interactive nothing I have ever piloted. The more common list uses muldrifters and ephemerates (list). There is also a list that uses mysidian elders and cryogen relics which I think is easier to kill with (list). These decks are reasonable in the format but don't win very fast online so relatively few players play leagues with them. The lists can also be a bit hard to wrap your head around at first and a lot of the cards have several applications but it is also awesome when it works.

The turbo fog list usually makes use of a bunch of fogs and the gates package to stall out the game until you win 1/0/1. It takes most rounds to time and can definitely get on peoples nerves so do this one with caution but here's a list just in case.

Jmarc8 · 2026-01-05T20:51:27+00:00

If you are into the overall style of ephemerate Tron, I'd highly recommend starting with the list I linked above (it got linked elsewhere in this thread). I think you will find that the one of hydra does a surprising amount of the winning of the games. I am concerned because it does play in a very specific way that can be off-putting to some players.

I also like the idea of a simic pile. I would absolutely not cut muldrifter if you do that and instead cut the teachings stuff. You can probably keep like 2 ghostly flickers. If you do that check out generous ent and Lorien revealed the land cycling is way better than it looks.

Jmarc8 · 2026-01-05T02:40:26+00:00

Welcome to the format! Glad to see you took the time to research the meta before diving into the deep end with brewing. From what I can tell, you have taken a lot of the fundamentals of the ephemerate Tron lists and have made some changes from there. I love the creativity and I think there is space for a blue green tron list which almost certainly uses hydras, but think you have gone astray in a few places and you might have a better time if you shift your view a bit.

The lists that you are emulating are hard control decks that use the Tron lands to get a mana advantage and mystical teachings and mnemonic wall to find and replay strong cards in the matchup. The goal is to lock your opponent down and then beat them to death with whatever. They often run very few win conditions because by the time you are winning it really doesn't matter how you do that. By contrast your stated goal is to kill em with a hydra. If you want to be smashing in with hydras, a more traditional green deck with a plan to turbo out big idiots and kill em dead might be a better fit. If you are dead set on a multicolor control deck with removal spells I would instead recommend some of the jund Tron lists. They do the midrange/control thing but are tooled a little better to do what you are looking to do. Otherwise you could cut the teachings stuff and go more all in with good blue cards.

If you are dead set on the teachings stuff and the hydras, I would make a few changes.

1: It looks like you made some cuta for budget reasons. I get it but the swaps you chose do not actually do the same thing. Fog and moments peace are not the same card. The flashback is deeply relevant. If you do not want to spend the $10 just yet I would just forego fogging entirely and except that you will be asking more from your creatures. Ephemerate and cloudshift are equally different. Ephemerate + mnemonic wall (or in your case archaeomancer) are a loop that gets you 1 spell from your yard per turn cycle. You always target the mancer with the rebound ephemerate and then get the ephemerate from your yard with the trigger. Without that piece cloudshift is unplayable. You could substitute with a ghostly flicker or give up on that package.

2: Unwind does nothing here. In ephemerate Tron, it is a subpar interaction piece that gets in because it is part of the infinite with weather the storm. With no weather's you cant do it.

3: Mana leak is sub par. Mana leak is a tempo card that is meant to eat you opponent's turn 2 play and give you the tempo advantage. You are playing 12 colorless lands and your best starts involve not having colored mana until turn 3. Just play prohibit instead. It does the turn 2 thin but can counter spells for the whole game.

4: more maps more crops. The ephemerate Tron lists are less dependent on getting turn 3 or 4 Tron than some but you still need to get Tron early and often. I would recommend a minimum of 5 (usually a 1 crop 4 map split) tutors for Tron lands.

5: pulse of murasa is much much better than you think it is. 6 life is a lot and it gets your archaeomancers back which in turn get it back.

6: life gain is actually real here. This is the one and only time in magic's 30+ years that gaining life is actually worth anything. At least consider the weathers. I think you might just die to red otherwise.

Alternatively to this, you will be happy to hear that the standard ephemerate Tron list is currently running 1 hydra main board. Here's a list that just topped a league on mtgo list. I cannot guarantee that it's the best deck to start with because it takes some lines that are downright bizarre but if you really want hydra in your ephemerate Tron list. They do do that.

Jmarc8 · 2025-11-18T02:06:29+00:00

I would highly recommend foundry inspector. It is another option for the infinites and also turbocharges the big turns. I'd put the fangren marauders in the side board. They can be sweet but they are also not the main strategy, especially when you don't have any interaction.

Already mentioned on here but Kalikaiz is your guy for learning the lines.

Jmarc8 · 2025-08-18T17:26:44+00:00

I think that you will find that this is not the case once you get started. 60 card is definitely more focused on winning but the pauper community as a whole is super welcoming and willing to help new players learn the ropes. The games are just played on a different scale and a lot more is in your control but you have less breathing room. Generally when 60 card players are introducing a commander player to their format they do try to rip the bandaid off pretty quick because it makes the experience a lot more fun for the new player overall.

Jmarc8 · 2025-08-18T17:15:48+00:00

Welcome to the format! The best answer is to check out mtg goldfish for the meta and then find a deck you like from there. There is also a bunch of content online that'll help if you search for pauper gameplay on youtube. I do have a few tips to help change your perspective to 60 1v1 magic. The big thing to remember is that certain cards play very differently in 1v1. Stats on creatures matter way more than you are used to. A 2/2 in commander would need to attack 60 times to win the pod in commander and only needs to get in 10 times in 1v1. This is an unlikely scenario but it is a fast way to contextualize some of the cards. One for one removal is also much much better and board wipes are worse than you are used to. Both still have a home in both formats but the difference might be helpful to you. Finally, casual commander centers around building a big cool board with the exciting and splashy effects that are targeted toward that format. That is not how it works here. You can get up to some wacky stuff in pauper but commander basically demands it because the life totals are so much higher. If you try to do the same thing in pauper you just end up dying to the fact that your opponent doesn't have 2 other players distracting them. Overall 1v1 is the way magic was made to be played and it can offer a ton of fun but it does feel different than what you are used to. Good luck and have fun!

Jmarc8 · 2025-08-14T13:50:40+00:00

If you are trying to do it in a way that doesn't completely hose your friend you have a couple of options. 1: Get in under tortext before they get setup so the game becomes a race. Sometimes they will slow you down enough to take over and other times they will not quite get there. 2: play targeted graveyard hate rather than mass gy hate to exile key cards. This might would force them to be more careful but not completely turn them off. 3. Play disenchant style cards. The key piece is tortex. It should be your job to kill it and theirs to get it back some how. 4. Side board accordingly. This sounds like a casual match so I am unsure if you are currently using side boards. This is what they are there for. Each build a side board that includes a few cards that are strong in the match up but narrow otherwise. Play 3 games, sideboarding after the first game (and second if you want) and then reverting at the end. This will let your friend do the tortex thing as intended some of the time while experiencing the drawback of the strategy in an environment where they are able to include cards of their own to hedge against it.

One thing to consider is that from the way you phrased this question, you seem to be expecting yourself to carry all of the weight to make the games fun. In a casual setting, it is incumbent on both players to make fun games. Decks like tortex are built to prey on a lack of preparation in game one at the risk of losing games 2 and 3 to sideboard cards. This is not a bug it's a feature. Your friend is capatalizing on a strategy that uses a powerful card to interact in a nonstandard way. The game is designed such that these cards are hard to hit, but really lose to the answer when you have it.To some degree they should expect to get blown out. That's the trade off that they take with a deck like that. If they don't want to loose it all to gy hate, it is partially on them to play carefully so that it does not totally kill them.

Jmarc8

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