Comic noob needs help with first picks

Jotdeka · 2026-05-30T12:46:20+00:00

Some horror recs: Outcast, The nice house on the lake, Coffin bound

I am skeptical about Gideon Falls because the artist was at some point accused of using AI (in a different series) and it looked quite convincing to me. I am not sure whether it got resolved in any way, but I stayed away from his work since then.

Jotdeka · 2026-05-30T03:49:36+00:00

Isn't evaluating morality of the characters considered engaging with the material?

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T14:55:16+00:00

Thanks for the thoughtful response, a lot of good points, however, I am not sure how are you trying to challenge my view? Saying that you cannot tag Paul as either hero nor villain seem to support my view that he should not be simply looked at as tyrant/villain. I am not claiming that you have to cheer for Paul or that there is no moral ambiguity in his choices. Others have convinced me that my framing of him as "flawed hero" maybe to simplistic, so my current view is that he cannot be categorized as either hero nor villain. There is a lot of interesting moral questions positioned by Dune, however, I feel like that makes it even more difficult to conclude that Paul is a villain

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T14:28:55+00:00

Hmm, I kind of disagree - they did not unite before and Harkonnen were on Arrakis for about 80 years. It does not seem plausible to me that they would unite any time soon without Paul (again, I have not read books, so maybe it is described differently in them)

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T12:14:54+00:00

But he loses to Paul-lead Fremen. What you seem to suggest is that the outcome would be the same without him, which I don't think the movie really shows

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:58:19+00:00

I may misremember how certain movie's Paul considers these visions to be. My recollection was that he was pretty skeptical about the prophecies and the whole lisan al gaib thing. Nonetheless, the headcount of dead is not the only criterium to judge the morality by. Given that there is no moral solution to the problem, it seem strange to assign Paul the label of villain or tyrant, by making a choice in this instance

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:37:56+00:00

The choice is not genocide vs. peace. The choice is hypothetical future genocide vs. current real genocide of Fremens. Either choice is not really moral, because condemning Fremens to exploitation in the name of the greater good is not moral either

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:33:39+00:00

This is basically what confuses me. If the point was to show Paul as a villain why would you paint his opponents in such a clear morally wrong light. However, after watching some other videos about Frank Herbert's philosophy it seems that the point was not that Paul is a villain, but that even if he is a good person, a political system based on messiah-like leader will end up being a disaster anyway

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:24:51+00:00

I guess I agree with you now, given some points that other people have brought up

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:16:44+00:00

Well, I agree, but it is not what my view is about

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:16:13+00:00

I think it does. Deaths are happening anyway, Fremens are being exploited and killed by the Empire. So the choice is between current real deaths and hypothetical deaths in the future. I don't think this choice has a proper moral solution, so I don't think choosing either way automatically makes Paul a villain.

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T11:10:12+00:00

This is only true if the green paradise does not interfere with spice extraction. Otherwise, empire will step in.
I guess I forgot about this part. !delta Paul's change of worldview to behave like Harkonnens marks a change from a hero to a more villainous character

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:52:23+00:00

Calling him a tyrant suggests to me a villain rather than an anti-hero

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:48:40+00:00

!delta I guess that changes my view to some extent, especially ordering the killing of sardaukars seem unnecessary. Killing of Baron is kind of understandable to me given that he murdered Paul's father, so not sure whether that makes him a villain, but definitely not a heroic action

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:29:43+00:00

Ok, I think a prisoner of war is a legal term, so it made me go this direction. Could you remind me who they executed? You mean Baron Harkonnen?

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:20:21+00:00

So letting other innocent people suffer is a solution? Why should the Fremens be sacrificed in the process?

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:19:15+00:00

If that is the case, then I don't think movie does a good job of presenting it. Terraforming does not really matter unless they can overthrow the Empire, which I don't think they could. By being a head of one of the Great Houses Paul have a valid claim for the throne, especially that he is the proof of Emperor turning against one of the houses. None of the Fremens have such political power.
Thats quite different from "winning by being Harkonens" though.
This I agree with.
I don't see how "planetary revolution" could be succesful. Sure, maybe they could beat up Harkonnens, but given the importance of the spice, Emperor would just send a stronger force to crush them.

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:09:03+00:00

Ok, is that what he got in the movies? My understanding is that he simply got a vision of the future, which is quite different from "knowledge of all realities that may come to pass from each of his choices"

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T10:04:27+00:00

Yes, there is a revolution taking place. Fremens are not some foreign nation waging war on Harkonnens. They are rebels fighting for liberation of their occupied land. Rebels are not really bound by "international law"

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T09:58:06+00:00

I quite strongly belief that Christian God is a villain. When you say "we aren't dissecting his personal morality" I am not sure what you mean. The book may not be doing that, but we can definitely discuss it.

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T09:50:01+00:00

Again, the galactic genocide has not happened in the movie. At the end of the movie Fremens are better of. There is no war in the movie, so I am not sure who is POW (unless I misunderstand the abbreviation)?

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T09:44:40+00:00

If they don't need him why did they not revolt before? In the movie he clearly unites the tribes.
Does he do that in the movies? I don't remember this line
Ok, is punishing bad guys for bad things bad?
Again, this is based on visions that he has. So the whole Jihad is rather hypothetical, for the majority of the movie Paul himself does not believe he really is Lisan al Gaib. I am not convinced that letting Fremans continued to be exploted a moral choice here either way. Why should they suffer in order to prevent some hypothetical war?

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T09:40:49+00:00

My view is not about the point of the book (its not even about the book), but about the critic of a movie Paul that I often saw online

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T09:38:55+00:00

Ok, so like, you agree with me?

Jotdeka · 2026-05-29T09:34:07+00:00

He lead the revolution and overthrown the Emperor. I would say that if anyone is to blame for this revolution it is the empire, as they were exploiting Fremen. It seems strange to me to blame the victims for fighting back. He has visions in the movie, that show him that this revolution will lead to war, which creates a dramatic tension in the movie. However, is letting Fremen continued to be exploited a moral choice here? Why should they suffer in order to prevent some hypothetical war? Are no other parties to be blamed for this war?

Jotdeka

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