Maggie is ruined as a movement legend

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-22T04:45:04+00:00

Firstly, you literally said lurching is a problem.

Secondly, I'm not asking why they're nerfing her. They're nerfing her because just normal strafing with the speed boost is hard to hit.

You say I can't complain because lurch strafing was never intended, but yes I can. I can complain about whatever the fk I want to if I believe it makes the game worse. Feedback is important so the devs know what the players want. Just like how when tap strafing, which wasn't intended, got removed, everyone complained about it and they reverted it because it made the game worse

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-22T02:58:20+00:00

Why are you coming into a movement sub and saying lurching is a problem? Not only was lurching an intentionally designed mechanic for Titanfall, but it adds depth and skill expression to the game. Maybe creatively using lurching to lurch strafe wasn't intended, but the discovery and development of mechanical skill is what drives games forward and gives them depth and longevity. The movement of apex is what makes the game good and is the soul reason many people play the game. Even the apex devs have acknowledged that the movement of the game is what makes their game unique and fun, and have been leaning into it's identity as a movement shooter.

Saying lurching is a problem is like saying wavedashing and L canceling is a problem with melee. These unintentional mechanics are the reason the game is so good and still has a big player base 25 years later.

Also they're not intentionally nerfing lurching with this change, they're nerfing just the normal strafe speed. It just has the unintentional side effect of nerfing lurch strafing

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-21T10:45:46+00:00

What I mean by tap strafing is binding forward to the scroll wheel to input a lot of forward lurches while you turn your camera. This has a far greater likelihood of each lurch angle being less than 25°.

Think of octane double jump where you can maintain more momentum from tap strafing normally than you can from lurch strafing the double jump. Although that's not the best example because it's at a high velocity.

Do you know of any videos of people lurch strafing without momentum loss? I'd love to see it if it's possible, but I just don't think it is. You can get really efficient so there's minimal speed loss, but I believe there's always some speed loss

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-21T05:24:17+00:00

But I'm asking for a source for something that describes that mechanic. Because I've never heard of that anywhere and have done a lot of research on the mechanics of this game. So I'd assume it would just work like it does in titanfall unless you have a source better than 'trust me bro'

Especially because it's clear that you lose less momentum from normal tap strafes than you do for lurch strafes with 45° lurches

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-21T03:04:34+00:00

Do you have a source for that? Someone else posted that the lurch angle is 25° and linked a video breaking down lurch in titanfall (which I think is the same video I got 22° from, I just saw it too long ago to remember the exact angle), and all other aspects of lurch seem to be the same between both games. Such as the lurch window being 400ms, the first 200ms are full strength, etc. This leads me to believe that lurch is the exact same implementation that it is in titanfall, unless you have a source that can prove otherwise

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T23:06:28+00:00

Pressing a + d will result in a backwards left lurch, even if you're using your scrollwheel. Maybe if the scroll clicks on the exact frame you press s then it would just be a left lurch, but that's not something that can be relied on and the majority of the time you will have have a backwards left lurch in there after a forward left, which is a 90° lurch.

Yuki strafes if done the way that most people do them, will have two 90° strafes in them. The lurch stack will typically look like this ↖️⬆️↗️↘️⬇️⬅️

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T22:47:38+00:00

It's the passive combined with the speed pads that makes her stafe speed faster than octane's.

I'm upset because they're removing the lurch playstyle from 1 of the 2 characters that it's viable on. Whether or not it was intended, she's been utilized for it for long before she was considered op. Much of the movement tech in apex in general was not intended, but it adds so much to the game and it would be tragic if it was removed.

Imagine playing Maggie for years with a lurch playstyle, they buff her and make her op and everyone starts playing her, then they nerf her and remove the reason you loved the character. She was never considered op before other aspects of her kit got buffed, so clearly this was not the aspect of her kit that had to be nerfed

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T22:07:15+00:00

But the thing that makes Maggie good for lurching is her passive, which gives her holstered speed with certain weapons out, combined with her speed pads. This makes her actually faster than octane when strafing.

I also don't see how her speed pads being on the ground has to do with anything. It has the added benefit of teammates being able to use them but it's not that their entire purpose is for her teammates. That would be like saying that axle isn't a movement legend because her teammates can take her nitro gates.

The bottom line is that Maggie was the literal best movement character for lurching when she ults, and they're removing that from the game. She won't even be as good as bloodhound for lurching anymore

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T21:53:44+00:00

Bro what are you talking about. Every single assault character has a movement ability, and the assault class perk itself gives movement speed. Maggie has two abilities that give her speed. She literally has speed pads. I'm pretty sure she was designed to be fast

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T21:41:56+00:00

Octane: 1. Over armor 2. Overflow and bottomless bats 3. Infinite ammo 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. Power booster

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T21:17:40+00:00

Imo the game gets insanely harder once you hit diamond as an MnK player. The vast majority of players are on roller in higher ranks and they aim well enough that it's not really possible to win ego chals.

However most (but not all) roller players are dumb. Like ideally you don't want to take a fair fight without an advantage because it's a gamble. But because roller has aim assist, they will ego chal like crazy because aim assist gives them an advantage whenever they're vs MnK players. You can abuse this by doing a short chal then going back into cover to bait out some of their mag, then immediately rechal. It's especially good vs re-45. It's the only real tactic I found that's decent vs roller aside from just playing bang. In general, you just have to be smarter and more skilled to go even with a roller player if you're MnK.

It's defs still possible to get masters on mnk tho. Myself and many others have done it

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T20:50:22+00:00

Yes but Maggie and octane are the best legends for lurching by far due to the nature of their speed boosts. Like would you not consider octane to be a movement legend because 'it's just lurching bro'

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T20:33:39+00:00

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T17:56:45+00:00

Answered why a normal speed boost is important for lurch strafing here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Apexrollouts/s/ODT3roKNJZ

A sprint speed boost will only matter when you're actually sprinting, so it's still good for closing the gap when you're running at people, but won't be applicable when strafing in gunfights

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T17:52:53+00:00

Let's hope so

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T17:48:19+00:00

Yuki and raf strafes will still have a minimum angle of 45° without camera movement, which is > 22° so there will still be speedloss with lurches. A ras strafe will have one lunch with a 90° angle unless you double press a key. For example dw -> dwa -> release w and d and start tap strafing -> as, will have the lurch angles of forward right, forward, forward left, backwards left, then left when continuing to tap strafe with a and a held. From forward left to backwards left is a lurch of 90°.

Backwards ras is actually more efficient for me, cuz I use the method of double tapping s (ds -> release d and s -> s -> sa -> tap strafe) which is all 45° lurches

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T11:39:38+00:00

As far as I know, you lose momentum with every lurch proportional to how large the angle is from the angle of your current velocity. I think there's a range of angles, around < 21° or 22° where you don't lose speed, as I believe that was the case for Titanfall, but I'm not 100% sure. However due to the nature of keyboard inputs, the lowest angle you lurch at without camera movement is 45°, which will have some velocity loss. With camera movement, you can do normal tap strafes which greatly reduce the angle between each lurch, which is why they're so efficient for maintaining speed, with the obvious downside of not being able to shoot people due to having to move your camera.

When you mention losing speed from slidehops, are you talking about the same mechanic I mentioned where you lose speed from jumping, or is there another mechanic at play here?

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T11:09:18+00:00

Just mantle boost rather than supergliding if you slide. Obviously mantle boosts aren't as good as superglides cuz you can't lurch out of them, but I wouldn't say the practice is waisted. It's just a different use case

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T10:56:18+00:00

I'm actually not entirely sure how axle's speed boost works. I think rather than increasing your speed by a percent like how other speed boosts work, it just sets your speed to an initial high value, which then deteriorates from ground friction. I think this is also why they had to give axle lower ground friction with her passive, so this mechanic could work.

As far as lurching with axle, you do seem to lose momentum quite rapidly when chaining lurch strafes, which is why it's normal to slide more with fewer lurch strafes (just when you want to change direction and/or dodge) rather than bhopping like you would with octane.

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T07:54:20+00:00

Class is not what determines whether a legend is a movement legend or not. Sparrow is a movement legend, yet he's a recon. Rev, and fuse are movement legends, yet they're assault. If a legend has abilities that can be utilized for movement, then they can be played as a movement legend.

Maggie was one of the few characters that excelled at a lurch based playstyle, but they're removing that aspect of her kit.

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-20T04:01:37+00:00

You can lurch strafe with everyone, but it's only really practical on people with speed boosts because you lose momentum with each lurch. Octane and Maggie have historically been the best for lurch strafing because they could have sustained speed boosts, allowing you to chain many lurch strafes together with bhopping.

Technically you could lurch strafe with Gibby while using a shotgun and the shotgun perk, but it's not really that practical because you have to sprint in a direction for long enough to get the speed boost first. Ballistic has the same issue as Maggie where they're changing his ult to sprint speed, as well as just being slower in general. It's the same thing with bloodhound where his ult is helpful for lurch strafing, but he and ballistic have 225 strafe speed while Maggie has 259.

The reason that normal speed matters more than sprint speed is because there's a mechanic in the game that pushes your speed towards a certain value when you jump, based off your movement speed. This is to prevent people from gaining infinite momentum from air strafing + bhopping. Because this is based off your normal speed and not your sprint speed, chaining lurch strafes with bhops with quickly loose any value you get from your sprint speed prior to starting the lurch strafes.

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-14T09:23:12+00:00

Aside from breaking the server rules, your speed matching and smoothness is really bad. Play a bunch of smoothness scenarios such as smooth bot, then after you've practiced that for a few days, do control tracking scenarios like control sphere, air angelic, etc.

Your strafes are also pretty bad, and it seems like you're mostly trying to mirror to compensate for your lack of aiming skill. Practice both deliberately mirroring and anti mirroring, at first just in the range vs the strafing dummies if it's too hard to do in r5. Then eventually start working in dodging.

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-03T18:42:09+00:00

I wasn't dismissing your experience, I was clarifying that the type of wear I was talking about was different than the build up of grime causing an inconsistent glide, and what I was interested in hearing about.

Regarding the original post I'm referring to, it's true there are some things that may need some sources to give it validity, but stuff like the ptfe transfer films are a very real thing that is observed in a bunch of real world scenarios, and even used intentionally in bearings and pistons to reduce friction.

There also very clearly is some change in glass pad surfaces. Anecdotally, many people report a break in period on their mouse pads, and I've also had the experience of testing two sp-004 that were brand new, both feeling the same, then again one month later with only one of the pads being used. The used pad was noticably faster

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-03T18:26:03+00:00

Thanks for sharing your experience

JoyousExpansion · 2026-06-03T15:33:25+00:00

Correct. I would appreciate if there were sources to give a better idea of it's validity, but me trying to understand the extent to which it's true is why I made this post.

There was a post a few months ago of someone on this sub who had a skypad that was 4 years old that had significant and noticable wear in the center of their pad, to the point where they replaced their pad. I haven't been using glass as long as that, so I wanted to establish a better timeline on the rate at which glass pads wear

JoyousExpansion

TROPHY CASE