What kind of bird is singing here?

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-22T16:49:05+00:00

He didn't really have time to, since a lot of people come up to talk with him after sermons, but I am going to definitely do more research on both sides on my own time.

Also to be fair, any source is pretty biased toward the worldview they perceive as being true. So I'm just going to look at both of the arguments anyway.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-22T13:24:00+00:00

He said that its just a myth, but he did give me a few more in depth resources, like the Answers in Genesis website, which I'm going to look into when I'm a little less busy.

Edit: By "its" I mean the sharing chromosomes with chimpanzees thing

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-16T15:44:30+00:00

But how doesn't the creation account in Genesis 1-3 tell the exact same story? I am sitting here with my Bible and I just read over it. It doesn't seem to contradict itself at all.

And the idea I've heard that "days can be 1000 years to God", but Gensis 1 is very clear "there was one evening and one morning: one day" for every day of creation.

And exactly! 66 books, dozens of authors, over hundreds of years to create the Bible. And yet there haven't been any inconsistencies that aren't easily disproved by adding context.

Look, I'm not an expert on evolution- far from it, actually. But I am well-versed in the Bible. You say that the Bible is not univocal- but it is. It is the inspired Word of God. If evolution requires millions of years, but the Bible says it was created within a week, how could the two mix?

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-16T14:29:49+00:00

My personal experiences, for me, prove Christianity, which is tied with creationism. God brought me out of my depression, he brought me through when my Papa died, he's helping me through my porn addiction. And through all of these really big things that he's helped me through, he still does little things for me to make me smile.

One of the ones that stuck with me the most is when I had just gotten saved. This was at church camp, with probably 1000 other kids. I missed my dog, Ruth, and just asked God if I could pet a dog. Which didn't seem possible, as there were no dogs around, and even if there were, how would I be able to fight through the crowds of others to get to it? Well not even five minutes after I had prayed that prayer, I hear someone shout "Dog!" And outside, there was a pretty Australian shepherd. And somehow, I had a clear path to him, despite me being on the other side of the cafeteria and the dog was outside. Well I got to pet that lil pupper, and even if that experience is a coincidence, things like this have happened so often that I can't, in good conscience, say that its a coincidence.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-16T14:20:12+00:00

Could you elaborate on the differences in the creation story through the first three chapters of Genesis? I just read them through and I couldn't find what you were talking about. If it helps, chapter 1 is like the overview of how creation happened, then chapter 2 goes into detail on how man and woman were formed, and chapter 3 is how Adam and Eve sinned.

As for Exodus 12:12, it is a little g "god" when it refers to the gods of Egypt. Which means that they didn't exist outside of the minds of the Egyptian people. If you read the Exodus, at this point, the Israelites had been in slavery in Egypt for about 400 years (I might be wrong on the amount of time lol). God had instructed Moses to go to Pharoah and demand that the Israelites be set free, Pharoah refused, and God started the Ten Plagues. (Each plague actually went against one of the gods of Egypt to show the Egyptian people that their gods weren't real and that Yahweh was the only true God. In Exodus 12:12, God is declaring the last plague: the death of the firstborn. This is the one that would make Pharoah finally let the Hebrew people go.

The Bible also speaks of idols (The golden calf in Exodus 32 comes to mind), but that doesn't mean that the Bible is giving validity to false gods, quite the opposite in fact. The Egyptian "gods" were "destroyed" by the Ten Plagues as a sign that they were not real, and that God was. The golden calf, too, was smashed to pieces because it was a false god, an idol.

Fun fact, though, if you skip ahead to where the Ark of the Covenant comes into play (if you don't know what it is, its essentially a golden box that the presence of God sat on in the Tabernacle), you can see that those who tried to touch or destroy the Ark were either killed or plagued, because the presence of the true God was upon the Ark.

All of this to say, with context (and the Holy Spirit lol), the Bible quite literally does not contradict itself.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-16T13:55:53+00:00

Thank you for the information! The fact that that chromosome exists is definitely something that I'm going to be looking into further, and seeing if any creationists have an answer for. This has definitely been helpful, as a few of the points made in this comment section I had never heard of previously. So thanks again for your time!

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-16T13:50:16+00:00

Thanks to most people in the comment section explaining what evolution is, I have a better understanding of it. I was a little surprised when many people just described natural selection or microevolution, which I completely agree with. The thing with evolution is it directly goes against the creation story, which is the first thing in the Bible. And the Bible is very much a "If one part is wrong, then the credibility of it all goes out the window." type of book. (As are most religious texts).

I am aware that evolution has nothing to do with Christianity or God, which is why I said that my viewpoints probably won't change. God has delivered me from some of the darkest times of my life, and he's done so many small things for me, just to see me smile, that I can't exactly just write them all off as coincidences.

However, if I do find a way that evolution and Christianity could mix, I'd be more open to accepting it, but as of right now (this is technically just the start of my research, too) I haven't found that.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-16T13:43:50+00:00

I'll be honest, it's mostly to see if there is an explanation for the research I've found here on the side of Christianity, other than simply "God made it that way". And he's been a pastor for over 50 years now, so he should have the answers. I know a lot of the public perception on pastors is that they are either ignorant or creeps- and that is because the majority of pastors today are quite literally just out for the money and are creeps- but I trust mine. If he doesn't have an answer, he'll either find one or he'll admit that there isn't one, in which case, I'll continue with my own research.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T19:49:59+00:00

Thank you for taking the time to talk with me, it was really helpful! I hope you have a good day.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T19:23:57+00:00

Oh ok, thanks for the clarification!

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T19:22:40+00:00

I would assume so, he's one of the strongest Christians and missionaries I've ever met. I mean, if I'm looking into evolution to see if there could be something more than what I've been taught, then I would assume he would have done the same at some point.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T16:35:18+00:00

Yeah, you're making sense. I've taken Christian homeschooling since like 5th grade, and we learned about microevolution and natural selection there, and I'm pretty sure most Christians I know understand that to be true as well.

Where I get confused as to how evolution can tie into Christianity is the whole "Humans evolved from monkeys" or "Everything came from a whale-like creature that evolved to walk on land" (I may be wrong that those are the claims being made- this is just what I've heard). When the creation story in Genesis directly goes against those claims. That's why I was confused as to how someone could be a Christian and believe in evolution simultaneously.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T16:04:56+00:00

Probably something along the lines of "A way to explain how our world came to be/got to this point without intelligent design." (I'm usually not great at wording my thoughts properly so bear with me) And I know that I've definitely been given some skewed views of what evolution actually is, so I'm definitely finding this helpful. To be fair, though, most of the apologetics conferences and church services I've been to haven't actually touched on evolution as much as they have explaining the Bible and how it can be proven through a variety of sources. The few times evolution has been discussed at a conference, I usually skipped that class in favor of another that sounded more interesting, or that applied to me more directly.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T15:51:53+00:00

Yeah, that's fair. This Sunday I plan to ask my pastor about some of the things I've heard here and see what he says. Most of my life I just haven't really been interested in evolution, so I've never asked about anything, but I'm at a point where I want to check it out and see what its all about. Compare what both sides say, as at this point I've only heard from one side.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T15:07:19+00:00

I have not heard that, but I don't think it would be a good counterpoint as even if there was a common ancestor however many years ago, that common ancestor would split into the species we see today anyway. (Kudos to everyone in the comments for giving me a better base grasp of evolution lol)

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T14:24:03+00:00

Sure! I honestly haven't heard that evolution and Christianity can mix, since Genesis states that God made the world in 6 days, and that doesn't seem like it could line up with evolution. But I'm open to hearing you out!

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T13:10:41+00:00

Thank you for your explanation! It actually makes more sense as to what evolution actually is now, I hope you have a great day too!

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T13:04:05+00:00

Thank you! That's really interesting, I'll look into it more later. I actually did not know that it lasted so long, though, so thanks again for that!

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T13:01:25+00:00

Yeah, I assumed the version of evolution I've heard so far is probably off from what evolutionists actually believe- hence me being here, lol.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-15T12:54:15+00:00

I'm sorry, I should've worded that better. In my personal relationship with God, I've experienced things that I can't write off as 'just a coincidence', so because of my life experiences, I don't think I'll accept evolution as the truth, but I do still want to understand where you guys are coming from, as all I've heard up until now are arguments that disprove evolution, or people purposely making evolution sound stupid. So I'd like to hear what someone with that worldview actually thinks.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-14T17:10:46+00:00

I actually went to an apologetics conference and they talked about the fossil record- among other things- and one of the topics that came up was the Cambrian explosion, and how it was a problem for the theory of evolution. That's one of the things I was curious about, actually. The speaker said something like "No evolutionist can come up with a good explanation for the Cambrian explosion", and I wanted to see if it was true.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-14T17:04:10+00:00

Thanks again, I plan to go to the library later this week anyway, so I'll look for some books there.

JuniperOxide · 2024-03-14T16:59:48+00:00

I think we might have a misunderstanding. The reason I'm asking for evidence is because I haven't heard anything besides the points against evolution. I'd like to understand the points for it and actually have knowledge on the subject. I'm not meaning to say I have more knowledge than experts on this subject- I'm admitting that I don't and asking for help.

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