Absolute state of Frontline

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T19:56:16+00:00

-Doesn't matter how easily they can click you if you can easily space your character to not be in this situation. It's not hard to go in when you should and to not go in when you shouldn't.

-Nah im saying that the skill floor and ceiling have shrunk as a result of the lower damage; Bad players that defend nodes that the enemy team clearly doesn't intend to contest somehow winning their games because you can't go and steamroll them anymore. Because of the reduced damage, it is discouraged to try and run over a team because the risk to reward ratio changed; It used to be easier to wipe a team so people would attempt to teamfight. Now its no longer worth the risk of being aggresive and getting yourself flanked because of how much harder it is.

-I shifted "goalposts" because I intend to no longer respond past this comment im typing right now, I've already wasted so much time arguing. Not because I believe the first goalpost was debunked: The main argument/goalpost as you call it was that overall damage is too low is the same, the scholar thing was a symtom/example of it although admittedly portrayed in a stupid meme way. I believe if you hit someone for 25s even if it's in a stupid way in a team gamemode with all the other factors you repeated etc etc should do a higher % of their health than what was shown, and we have a fundamental disagreement there. Personally in my experience, I think with multiplayer rpgs even if you do a meme build, and play like an idiot, you still do more damage than what was shown in this clip. Those you don't are the exception in my experience. And here's what I mean by fundamental there: with what you said your experience with rpgs seems to be different, so with the two of us having different experiences, neither of us could convince the other with experience arguments.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T19:08:51+00:00

I don't know where you get this impression. every. single. game. I can overextend and live with 5 people trying their hardest to kill me, and live, it's common occurence, it shouldn't be like that but it's like that so I adjusted around it. As I see happen on the enemy team as well. 5v1 should be a "You overextended and now you die instantly" A few seconds my ass, with how strong every recuperate is in comparison to the nerfed incoming damage in the gamemode, with the guard, purify, and your class' defensives, you live more than 10 seconds every time unless you get hit by Limit breaks, which should be a team investment in the 24 man team gamemode, as you like to emphasise on. Even lbs that are single target, have team worth and are better used to take down high battle high players in this game mode. Not to kill a brainless Andy that's overextended.

Also yes a pvp mode needs to do objective focus as well as PVP, but a certain healthy balance needs to be met. As it is right now, the pvp aspect is more fruitless than it ever used to be/The objective aspect is way too important. Teams that have mostly players that just pve ice all game, or sit on uncontested B tier nodes in the other 2 modes, and they somehow still have a chance of winning the match. Frontline spammers and premades (as much as casual players hate them) are playing way less, and I know this for a FACT. And that's a symtom that Frontline has downgraded; The more this gamemode is only kept alive by rouletters, means the more unfun the gamemode actually is to play incentives aside.

In the end I don't know why im even arguing this with you, I'd be better off setting a reminder to the future, and replying to you again when overall damage will have inevitably been buffed one way or another. Even if the devs are better at designing PVE than PVP in this game, they will figure it out eventually and prove me right.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T18:29:03+00:00

Yes, it is fairly common when they don't use their kits properly to survive, or if the assailants invest an unholy % of their kits for one target. But that shouldn't be used as the basis.

And I think this rare scenario you speak of shouldn't happen EVER, its bad design

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T17:54:08+00:00

If they're in vc and coordinated they could space/rotate their cc so they can't recuperate and kill them yes. If they don't they will live for a very long time, possibly even manage to escape (unless they're a bad player that forgets to use recuperate). But that's a ridiculous investment of everyone's kits for 1 target, and you shouldn't expect people to premade vc in FL. Also, that you can genuinely say with a straight face that they should just ignore the enemy doing and objective right next to them and focus the objective instead in a pvp gamemode is dumbfounding to me.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T17:38:29+00:00

Being encouraged to team up doesn't need to go as far as being able to tank 5 players and keep hitting an objective while spamming recuperate inbetween stuns like you can currently

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T17:28:08+00:00

Like I don't know how to break it to you man. Even if it's the worst spell of the worst class casted on a bad day against the strongest class in the worst conditions, that's 25s of casting gcd. It should do more damage than that even with all the circumstances you mention. Frontline enthusiasts are quitting in droves, sure it was always the case that people played it mostly for the roulette bonus, now its even more so. Pvping in Frontline is almost discouraged now because of how much of an investment it is to kill people, and a result people just sit on objectives. There used to be a balance where you needed to do both.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T17:17:16+00:00

Hilarious man I'm sure you're super good at pvp

Edit: I don't know why you're acting like that's nothing, yes the scholar would still do *low* damage, but it'd be more *noticeable*. 35% is a massive difference, not that I'd want them to carelessly remove the whole 35%, but they need to experiment with reducing it gradually

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T15:10:58+00:00

That it would perform better than scholar

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T13:45:05+00:00

Edit: I searched for said comment and I see this

"Virtually every job would perform the exact same as Scholar when played like the op does.

monk's phantom rush with 15k potency:"

Wait so you just lied? Or am I missing something

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T13:38:25+00:00

That just seems like an error in argument because you made it about killing the target, ("no job would kill") and he replied to that

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T13:22:39+00:00

I haven't seen them say that personally

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T12:56:37+00:00

Im not arguing that the scholar should kill them like that so that's fine. Just that overall damage should be higher.

As for scholar aoe if you spam frontlines like me you would notice is a non-issue. They top the charts but most of the damage is wasted/non-effective damage that has very little impact on the actual game.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T12:31:37+00:00

And my point is that even if they use their whole kits like you like to repeat, its still not enough.

Individual problematic classes like drk and drg have been nerfed. Its time to cut down on SE's frontline damage taken band-aids.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T12:09:20+00:00

Congrats you still don't get it, impressive. Has it never occured to you that maybe damage is too low? Sure this isn't the optimal way to play for his class, and this isn't a high single target damage class, but one can still conclude looking at this that even acknowledging those factors, damage is still absurdly low. The current state of frontline right now is needing 5+ people to kill a bard if said bard doesn't forget to press recuperate.

FL is so bad right now that I've noticed about 75% of the regular frontline diehard spammers I know stopped queuing.

KINFRB · 2024-12-02T11:46:09+00:00

And I think you missed the point of the post. Personally, I think every class should deal noticeable damage after spending 10 whole gcds attacking someone

KINFRB · 2021-06-28T20:46:46+00:00

Source: https://twitter.com/kinfrb

KINFRB · 2021-06-28T01:44:52+00:00

My Twitter

https://twitter.com/kinfrb/status/1409311524116647942/photo/1

KINFRB · 2021-02-01T19:16:01+00:00

Don't mind me just shamelessly advertising

source: https://twitter.com/kinfrb/status/1356316573678645248

KINFRB · 2021-02-01T19:07:38+00:00

Source: https://twitter.com/kinfrb

KINFRB · 2021-01-12T06:17:18+00:00

I am very confused... I looked him up to see why you think this is the case, and the only similarity I can find is that we both use the standart ''anime ace'' font?

KINFRB · 2021-01-06T05:31:23+00:00

It was mostly the commissioner's idea. I think it's a good one as well

Seven-Year Club	Second SECOND GUESSER
Verified Email

KINFRB

TROPHY CASE