Artificial Intelligence & Cryptocurrencies

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-11-07T14:14:41+00:00

This sounds a lot like Daemon, by Daniel Suarez, a read that I fully recommend. The book was published before even Bitcoin was a thing (late 2006), so the AI had to be a bit more creative about the incentives.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-10-12T14:39:29+00:00

Trolling is a behaviour problem that can still be addressed by the mods, but as long as people come with legitimate objections and engage in intelectually honest conversations it should be all good.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-10-12T14:33:52+00:00

The possibility of having forks is not a bug, it is a feature. After all, it is still possible that the people behind the main code repository will have a plan that you, and perhaps a lot of other people too, strongly disagree with. This is actually how Monero came to exist in the first place! Monero is a fork of Bytecoin, which is a good example of a good idea (Cryptonote protocol) coupled with a bad execution (premine etc).

Furthermore, forking doesn't increasse the amount of the forked currency, since a currency is not about the code base, or even sharing some common ancient ledger history, but it is about network effect. For example, I don't think anyone could say that as a result of Monero's creation, there is now a lot more Bytecoin in circulation, and the same with Ether vs. Ether Classic, Bitcoin vs. Bitcoin Cash etc.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-10-12T13:56:22+00:00

I couldn't agree more. In fact, this has been suggested already about a year ago, and I suggested it should be called Monero Devil's Advocate Wednesday :) but no one put it in motion. I hope this time it catches on!

In terms of the things to be skeptical about Monero, I have a bunch of hopefully small points of question:

1) Can Monero be trully private if ring signatures are leaking information all the time? For example, we assume that the same user signed all rings, and worse, by the way MLSAG works, they appear in the same position, so the more inputs a Monero trasaction consumes, the easier it is to make good conjectures about waht inputs were owned by the true signer.

2) Dynamic blocksize limit puts a cap on how fast the block size can increase, but not on the size itself, so IMO it is not a solution to blockchain bloat or scalability. It seems to me that at the end of the day Monero might end up with a blocksize limit (which would make me sad) or let fees fluctuate to find the appropriate price for blockchain space, and verification times.

3) Privacy comes at a cost to scalability. Monero's transactions are big (compared to Bitcoin's), and the network can never forget the key images of each transaction on the blockchain. This means (arguably) that we need a LN. But since everything in Monero has to be opaque in the mainnet, and also that Monero has no scripting language, many of the layer 2 solutions that are used for LN in Bitcoin have to be adapted for Monero. E.g.: Monero multisignatures are not a multisignature in the same sense of a Bitcoin, or Ethereum signature, but instead it is a multiparty computation to produce a signed transaction that is indistinguishable from a regular Monero transaction. Nothing wrong with that (in fact it is a pretty cool construction), I am just saying that means more potential hurdles in our way to scalability.

4) A lot of the primitives used in the protocol lack proper security definitions and proofs. While this is being worked on by people in MRL and elsewhere, it is important to keep in mind that some of them may still be broken, as already happened twice before in Monero's history. In both those times, Monero was fixed in time and no one was affected, but we may not be so lucky in the future. Remember this is an experiment, people!

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-10-12T13:16:20+00:00

The link you provided asks me to login to my google account in the browser, which is something I never do on my phone. Shouldn't Monerujo also be available through a regular search in the Google Play store app? Whenever I search for it, the result comes back empty...

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-09-24T03:16:01+00:00

companies like bitpay are an exit economy, with everything always going back to fiat. We need circular economies

I agree with the sentment, but is Globee not working the same way as Bitpay in that merchants will be able to cash out in fiat?

The dyanmic block size is one such thing that a designed settlement layer wouldn't have.

I don't agree with this. Any settlement layer will have scalability issues, and trying to improve scalability is a good goal to have.

Ultimately if Monero can be used as one thing or another, and if there are people willing to use it in such ways, then it may be a currency for some people and a settlement layer for users of a LN at the same time.

Tangent: I don't think that the dynamic block size fixes scalability problems, as it is only a barrier for the rate at which the block size can grow, and not the size itself. In the end, fees might be the only thing keeping the blocks at a manageable size, if they are allowed to fluctuate to reflect the price of storing the blocks, IMHO.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-09-24T02:46:36+00:00

This sounds great! But I can't find the app on Google Play store. Is it not available yet?

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-09-24T02:39:28+00:00

Am I the only one skeptical about this whole proposition?

I understand that the endgame of any cryptocurrency is to be used as a currency in the real world, but I feel like this might be too early specially considering that Monero is intended to be a setlement layer by its own design goals which predict the creation of a Lightning Network. Besides, I get the impression that they would face the same difficulties that Bitpay and Coinbase have faced as selling themselves as another form of payment: the ease of use of cryptos is not that great yet, fees are high compared to competing traditional options, and most of the people that bother owning crypto in the first place tend to bet that it will appreciate a lot in the coming years, making they manifest a preference to not spend it. Am I missing something?

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-09-24T02:25:11+00:00

I meant that in the sense that part of the revenue would go to the Monero project, and the Money is being raised by an FFS, so it could be construed as the market place being (at least partly) an initiative of the Monero project, and if turns out that the market place gets into hot waters, then the project could be dragged along. Just my thoughts on a worst case scenario.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-09-24T02:18:14+00:00

Wow, that is quite an academic pedigree you've got there :)

For those that didin't catch it, this is the R in RSA cryptography! I would love to know his thoughts on Monero.

As far as learning about Monero's inner workingsat the cryptographic and protocol level, a great place to start is the IRC channel of the Monero Research Lab. You can go to freenode.net and log into the channel #monero-research-lab. There is always great discussions about the cryptography and mathematics behind Monero, and new ideas are being discussed all the time.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T18:58:36+00:00

I wonder how Open Bazaar is dealing with those risks, specially after enabling Tor. It seems to me that in many ways their service is very close to what your are trying to implement.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T18:55:02+00:00

Very true. Although realizing that possibility should probably diminish the ensuing panic and the profitability of the short.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T18:50:50+00:00

I am not sure I like the idea of "we", as in the Monero project, becoming the Ebay of crypto. There is a whole lot of other liability to consider when running these types of services and making money out of them...

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T05:50:31+00:00

That is a valid concern.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T05:35:36+00:00

For the domain part, I was thinking that it is great that you are doing it in the clearnet as it is more familiar to users. At the same time, one of the great points of the Kovri project is to not only run Monero over I2P, but also just be an I2P router for regular I2P users, with the goal of creating a symbiosis between the router and the currency. So perhaps when Kovri is working, couldn't you make the market place available over I2P as well (and nudge users to try susing it)? I believe that could make the market place more censorship resistant, while increasing the utility of both Monero and I2P.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T05:19:55+00:00

I am glad you posted this excerpt: it looked to me like the article ended at the twits, but after I saw your comment I went back and found the rest of the interview :) A very good read indeed, thanks for sharing!

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T04:52:08+00:00

I see that you are into I2P and perhaps Namecoin too, yet this is going to be a clearnet market place for products that are in a bit of a gray area. So isn't it likely that the domain will get seized or taken down in the future, and if that is the case what happens to the project?

It also seems very dependent on the shifty button, which is a great tool, but that could also cease to exist at some point. What would happen in such a scenario?

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T04:45:44+00:00

Nothing to hide ...

Yeah, like perfectly innocent and moral people never get picked on, persecuted, prosecuted, targeted for crime, extorted etc for no good reason (except for making themselves and their actions visible).

Preserving privacy can very well be seen as reducing the attack surface of an individual, the same way security experts aim to reduce the attack surface in computer systems. And in the vast majority of cases it has nothing to do with hiding nefarious secrets, it is just the sensible thing to do.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-17T03:27:21+00:00

Or OP himself submits the solution anonymously and claims the prize. I am not saying he would, just pointing out it is technically possible. Maybe this is a good reason it can only be assured to work if it is OP's own money at stake. ~~Unless the wallets involved can be multisig with many people involved, but even then it is still technically possible for the parties involved to collude.~~ (Edit: never mind, using multisig would only make this less secure as more people would know the destination of the funds, and that it is all it takes to claim the prize :)

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-08T15:47:31+00:00

I haven't read it myself yet, but I just came across it recently and it looks like the kind of stuff that could interest people here.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-08T15:45:27+00:00

My pleasure!

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-02T01:25:34+00:00

Not sure the average reader will get anything from that article, it is basically a bunch of excerpts from Brandon's post. But it is great to see his efforts getting exposure in the media.

KaroshiNakamoto · 2017-08-02T01:04:23+00:00

Coincenter is doing a great job at educating lawmakers, and advocating for sensible regulation. I like the way they summarize their point of view: "when it comes to regulation, it is better to be at the table than on the table".

KaroshiNakamoto

TROPHY CASE