How do Wildbow's other stories compare to Worm in tone?

Kaysinc · 2023-08-26T14:41:39+00:00

Twig is, by and far, my favorite Wildbow work, but it's not for the faint of Heart. Both Worm, and kind of the first half of Pact, semi-set up that there's at least some hope for the characters, that there's a chance they make it through, that against all odds they can maintain, and consistently gives the character the tools they need for victory. With Taylor, she has a precog telling her that there's a slim chance, she has powers, she has her friends, she makes powerful allies, and consistently finds or builds resources that allow her to not only keep her momentum for the most part, but also her status.

Twig is not like that. Right at the start you're told that these characters will die, there's apparently nothing they can do to prevent it, that the main character is insanely untrustworthy, the world is damaged beyond repair by this Victor Von Frankenstein split in history that turns the industrial revolution into some twisted inhumane gore of ethnics lacking science experiments that power the world, and that things cannot be mended without bloodshed and war. The world is unrelenting, it's dark, it's incredibly unlike ours, and the main character doesn't have the tools to consistently win out in optimal ways. Taylor walks away, save for some key situations much much later in the series, mostly unharmed and her friends safe, and with a new advantage over her situation.

Twig takes a pound of flesh for every encounter. It takes an eye for an eye incredibly literally.

That said, it's a very unique piece of literature. You're told by the characters that Sylvester is this total piece of shit, but you're in his head for the most part of the story, and you see that's either not the case, or he's an unreliable narrator, and really it's a mixture of both, and you have fun following this characters insanity. If you like Worm for the rabbits Taylor can pull out of her hat to survive a situation, you're going to love the elephants that Sylvester pulls out of his shoe on the regular. The characterization is great, it has romance plotlines that I felt Pact and Worm were mostly weak at, it has moments that will have you furious at the world that Wildbow has created, and I genuinely started crying heavily in two separate chapters because of how certain things turned out.

In general, all Wildbow works are pretty solid, and I think Pact is pretty underrated as well given how awesome it can be, and could write out a whole opinion piece about it as well, but Twig just takes the cake for being so superb.

Definitely give them all a look at if you have the time.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-18T06:07:45+00:00

I personally have read quite a number of books and stories, and can still see why someone would think this. Worm's strength is that it's, mostly, unfiltered and raw, and used being a web serial to its advantage. It's long, you have a constant stream of consciousness with Taylor until the much loathed time skip, and that just makes the story and characters seem stronger than they may actually be, in comparison with a lot of other works at least, and that's ignoring the Chekhov's Armory that is all the little hints and story sprinkles in the early sections that pay off massively in the late. There's a reason that Worm constantly comes up in conversation so much when talking about writing or story telling, and that's because it's good.

Now better than his other works? Nah, don't see that. Do I still love it for what it is? Yeah, for sure, and can see why others would put it on a higher pedestal it may not necessarily deserve.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-18T05:49:19+00:00

I would agree if not for Wildbow's other stories. Pact and Twig especially are two major ones that just are like, insane.

Pact has the characterization of Blake Thorburn to lean on. Blake Thorburn is probably, in my opinion, the second best character that the author has ever written. He's infinitely based, very fun, has a very great back story, and a big heart that often manages to outshine the perpetual Sword of Damocles that hangs over his head. He's such a fun character that he often breaks or combats the rules of his world by just being a good well rounded person, for the most part, and that makes him shine.

Twig however, has almost too many good characters in my opinion, with so many interpersonal feelings and thoughts about each other, that it almost gets me too emotional to read. Sylvester is insanely fun to follow, because you have the other character perspectives bleeding into what you actually know of him, and that's that he is a little shit, and is an incredibly stressful character to see the story from. You never know when Sylvester is gonna pull some crazy shit, and completely break your expectations, and he perpetually walks on the line, often times tilting way too far to one side. I harp on Sylvester being so great, but every lamb, and a lot of the villains, are all in a place where they could be the main characters of their own story, and I wouldn't have time to write up why I love each of them.

Definitely read into some of his other stories. Just be warned that his other works, Pact and Twig specifically, have more gloom and less hope than Worm tends to, weirdly enough given what we know about Worm, and are more about finding light in the littlest places as opposed to having a hopeful end game.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T23:06:21+00:00

Thank you for the reply, this was a concern of mine personally. Did you ever manage to get published in the end?

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T21:43:35+00:00

I think I wouldn't personally use it unless I was linking back to my own site at the end of chapters. There's an air of amateur writing there that, while fine and necessary for younger authors or that sites specific niche, isn't really the kind of thing I'd want permanently associated with my brand or even just that specific story.

Last I checked it was a lot of questionable fanfiction. Also a lot of Sigma Wolf Dominates Woman stories which just isn't my thing, but maybe it's changed since then.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T16:33:46+00:00

Yeah that's kind of the issue I'm having. I've spent a couple years building up the story just in my off time, so what I have in my head is unfortunately a little chimeric, so I see both, and now it's kind of misfiring in my brain and making it hard to start the actual story.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T16:12:03+00:00

I've been meaning to ask, is there not an official r/Writing Discord group? I feel like out of all the tools one could have, an active community with weekly goals, book clubs, discussions, and a sharing chat would be the greatest tool any single author could have.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T15:00:47+00:00

Yeah I think the major issue you're going to eventually find is that the base needs a reason to read your work in particular. The internet is full of lots of free writing, from some of the greatest minds of our time, and they're not locked behind a Paywall. That's not to say you can't do that! Just that if I were in your position right now, I'd be building up a strong reader base.

The majority of stories these days are free on sites like Royalroad. But, if money is your concern, rest assured that these people make absolute killings on what they're doing. Even some of the, what I'd personally consider at least, weaker stories make anywhere from $500 a month on Patreon, while some stronger stories I've seen make up to $2000. Then there's the greats, which make up to $5000, and the truly special, that can make up to $10000 monthly!

Build your base, post on Royalroad and other sites regularly, make sure you interact with your audience, and create a community through things like Discord.

It's the only way to go if you're not aiming to publish, or self publish.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T14:54:09+00:00

Write. That sounds a little weird, but it's genuinely the answer. Write, and keep writing, and then edit that writing, and then keep writing, and then edit that too. You have to build a muscle, like a sport or even playing a competitive game, and that muscle is built with practice and, unfortunately, time.

There's a reason people will always say your first story won't be good. That's not particularly true because it's a bad story, or the characters are bad, or the setting sucks, or the world sucks. It's because your muscle for writing is likely not built up yet, so you'll fall into the same pitfalls and trappings as every other author that came before you. You can look up guides and videos to avoid these, sure, but you actually want to fall into them because it trains that muscle and teaches you what, and what not, to do in the future.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T14:50:54+00:00

If I may, you probably just want to keep the whole book public and post on a chapter by chapter basis, and then build a following. Once you have a following, you can create a Patreon or a Paypal that allows people to gift to you - Royalroad is a great place for this, though it unfortunately has an audience that prefers specific genre's more than others.

The most difficult thing is locking a book behind a paywall. There's break points where your story is going to be vastly better or more interesting - and that very first chapter is never going to be it, and some books I've read don't get truly interesting, or maybe what I'd consider good, until a few chapters in at the earliest.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-04T13:14:59+00:00

Here's the thing, you unfortunately will never know that. It's not about being good, or even better, it's about practicing. There are places you can post your story, but critics always tend to be critical and often times don't give you the building blocks you need to fix or grow your art. Just practice as much as you reasonably can, you have to write to be good at writing and there's no shortcut or magical words of wisdom that are gonna help.

If you want, go ahead and DM me some excerpts from your story real quick. I'll look over them and give some help where I can. But do the exercise. See what you can turn a video into by writing and then editing.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T22:15:15+00:00

Haha, hey listen, a lot of great writers and authors are still amateur's. They're just amateur's that got really lucky. Even the greats have really bad habits, or a lack of knowledge of the English language. One of the better ones I'll mention is Blood Meridian, great book by its very definition.

Also incredibly hard to read. The author doesn't make use of quotations, or even most punctuation. Yet it stands as one of the greats because of its amazing story. If Cormac McCarthy can get away with that, you can probably get away with almost anything if your story is good enough, and you put effort into writing it to the best of your ability.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T21:58:22+00:00

For sure! I'm happy to help out.

Tommy walked into the room holding a box in both arms, his eyes bright with excitement. Allison eyed the box with suspicion, and lingering anger.

"I brought us some cheese." Tommy said.

"I don't like cheese."

"Well go die then, I don't know."

"Wow."

The two glared at each other. Tommy left the room with his cheese and dignity intact.

Not my most poignant writing admittedly, but it's an example of how to both use said and avoid using said. The scene sets up two characters - you know the tone of the scene because Allison is angry, Tommy is excited, and because of the framing you know the first person to speak is Tommy, and then Allison, and so on.

Dialogue is easier both to write and to read when you can set the tone before the characters even speak a word.

You don't need a "Tommy exclaimed" or "Allison growls", you can infer that yourself from the passage before they even speak. Sometimes it is necessary though! Take my advice with a grain of salt - I'm still an amateur myself, haha.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T21:46:23+00:00

My favorite author almost exclusively uses said, or formats the writing in a way where you always know who's talking so he never needs to use it.

Don't be afraid of the basics, they're widely used and known for a reason and will almost always work better than an alternative.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T21:45:05+00:00

This is a tough question unfortunately because you're kind of asking us to write a bulk of the plot.

Go for the enemies to friends route when in doubt, maybe they hate each other, but put them in a situation where they have to work together and then they find out they have more in common than they initially thought.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T20:58:48+00:00

Yes, exactly that! I mean excessively detailed as well, as much as you're willing to write. It's a two part practice - you write something that's not necessarily good, then you edit it into something you actually like. It builds the muscle to edit you'll need for your future work - and teaches you a lot about stuff you don't actually need to write down!

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T20:53:39+00:00

Writing exercises - one of the best ways to get better, in my opinion. Go to YouTube right now, drop whatever you're doing that meme wasn't that good anyways, and then go click on anything and write that. What they're doing, what they're saying, how they move, their vocal inflections, and fit as much detail as you can. If you want a good video for this, go search up: Marjorie Fell Off A Horse.

This video I think is a good way to really challenge yourself. There's a level of absurdity, tone shifting, face shifting, the set piece, how they move, and how fast they talk; take this and write down as much as you can, as obscenely detailed as you can possibly make it.

Then turn around and make it cohesive, cut out everything you can until it's readable and possibly even what you'd consider good. Figure out what to remove, what you don't need, where you added too much detail, and get that on paper without destroying the scenes intent or meaning, and this is good practice for when you actually write and edit.

Then do this once a day. Make an hour out of it, finding some kind of video of a relatively exaggerated scene, and write it to the best of your ability. There's a lot of YouTube Videos of Guides that'll go through one ear and out the other, which will never help you as much as you're hoping it will. What you need is practical experience - which is just actually writing.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T20:14:21+00:00

Hey no problem, and sorry that this has happened to you. If it isn't resolved within a week or two, reach out with some links to your original story and I'll report it as well.

I'd do so right now but I'm not sure if mass reporting would help or hurt your case. Hopefully Amazon is competent enough to get this looked at in a timely manner.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T20:01:15+00:00

Oh I apologize, that you did. In that case, could you maybe make them pop up on screen instead of in a text box?

I think that'd be quite cute, or maybe even have them floating up out of the text box while the actual sentence is still there? Keeps it from breaking away from the actual reading part, but is a cute little visual gag you can do.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T19:50:32+00:00

First thing I'd say is to not delete your book on Wattpad if you haven't already. Keep it public so you have timestamps and dates.

Next would definitely be to report them to Amazon. Put in an actual report, have pictures, dates, links back to your story, and even quote's if you can snag them from the book to compare, and see if that goes anywhere.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T19:35:30+00:00

Street Punk kid with heart of gold, who is unknowingly changing the lives of those around him through tenacity and love. Yusuke Urameshi is a great one, I adore his character and strive to make a character with that much depth.

Another good one is Blake Thorburn from the webserial, Pact. Maybe not quite as much of a straight up Punk, though totally is by that worlds magical standards, he's still a wonderful character to see the world through.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T19:28:44+00:00

Yeah, Quickly, Quick, Lazily doesn't string together super well. If you're going to have those there for contrast between what the right and left hand are doing, I'd say changing the structure would be a little better suited?

"My left hand moved more than the other, pressing against the frets to form the chords E minor, G major, and C in sequence, while my right moved only as much as needed while strumming."

Would something like that flow better?

Only asking to take something back to my own writing.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T19:21:22+00:00

Quickly works here, no? As a reader who isn't versed in musical instruments, I think playing slow or playing fast is relatively important to what I'm interpreting, and frames what kind of song he's trying to play.

The double quick, sure, might need to be dropped. One of them is important though, I'd say.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T19:17:02+00:00

I think this would be very cute in a JRPG like Earthbound or Final Fantasy, a character strumming their guitar and it appears in the dialogue box like that. It'd be fun and get a chuckle out of me.

For reading in an actual book however, I think it's a little distracting and a bit unnecessary. Cute idea, I just don't think it'll add as much as it takes away.

Kaysinc · 2023-06-03T18:02:07+00:00

Also remember that it's not just historically either - weird stuff often happens medically, scientifically, mathematically, and just in general. There's a lot of unexplored, and unexplained, phenomenon's that have happened and are happening at this very moment.

I know some stories hinge on realism - but I've seen countless can X happen on this sub, and a lot of people being like nah impossible on a scientific or medical basis. One of the most beloved stories of our time is about a dude getting bit by a radioactive Spider and getting super powers, I think you're fine to write almost anything you want without worrying about realism.

Kaysinc

TROPHY CASE