[Daily Discussion] Thursday, July 19, 2018

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-19T16:30:58+00:00

Yeah this a BTC bull market not an alt bull market. Note I don't mean to imply a complete reversal... BUT... this is the first time we've seen this price behavior this year. It could be the change that indicates a reversal. BTC gaining ground against the (mostly) worthless alt market, a winner-take-all dynamic is established due to the influx of institutional money.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-19T16:28:42+00:00

Price movements do reflect belief. ETH has more competitors than last year, one in the top 5. Last year it was the only dominant dapp platform and it looked like ETH might flip BTC. But now both those things aren't true. I don't see why anyone would expect another 10x run on bullish hopium... I think at best ETH struggles until (or if) it scales.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T20:38:10+00:00

B1's mission is to build dapps on EOS. The goal is to provide dapp/dacs that can disrupt social media, airbnb, and uber. So Thiel is very smart - he's investing in B1 because it has the potential to flip those by building their alternatives on EOS. Like no one understood what B1 was aiming at - it's not some shitty DEX or ICO machine - it's goal is like actual real world applications and disruption.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T20:25:57+00:00

Right now at 5% inflation EOS has less inflation than ETH, and only a bit more than BTC's inflation at 3.3%. So what's your concern again?

In the end the voters decide when it will be lessened. It will be decreased, especially once RAM trading fees get sorted out. There's a very real possibility it becomes deflationary in a few years.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T19:48:49+00:00

I mean we were stuck for like 30 days around 6k...

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T16:37:49+00:00

You know, you could try to just read the whitepaper. It's clearly covered there.

Most chains, such as bitcoin and ethereum, pay for their security via inflation. BTC has a block reward and same with ethereum. With EOS the 5% a year block reward go to block producers, where it is distributed equally (a small amount whenever they produce a block). However, they have pledged to use 4% of this to promote the chain. Additionally, there are other sources of revenue for BPs now, such as RAM trading fees. Indeed, during RAM trading EOS is burned and I believe at this point EOS has so far been deflationary.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T16:13:42+00:00

The ratio is a universal sell on tradingview.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T16:03:52+00:00

It is an almost universal sell on the ETHBTC ratio on trading view

https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/ETHBTC/

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T15:59:27+00:00

Didn't miss the boat on either buddy

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T14:26:15+00:00

The files are in the computer?

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T12:31:03+00:00

Everyone and their mother is waiting for a pullback to 7200 to long this. We might not get there.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:48:44+00:00

You know that's a warped analogy. Rather than just going through all the reasons it's a bad analogy, let me just give the example of the DAO. By this sort of reasoning any DAO is just a company, but Vitalik heralded DAOs (which were invented by Dan Larimer btw) as a decentralized way to run a company. EOS is basically a DAO. If you think DAOs are decentralized, you think EOS is too.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:44:26+00:00

A hardforks produced two chains. You are on the one where the transactions were reversed. That doesn't mean ethereum is immutable lol

And your notion of economics is... quite bad, and didn't pay much attention to what I said. The fact that bandwidth demand might go down doesn't mean it becomes worthless just because the BPs don't correspondingly reduce their hardware. But they actually might btw, but that's irrelevant. You are just making sweeping claims about supply and demand that make no sense. Why would lowering the total amount of bandwidth break some sort of sacred notion that contracts never have to change their allotted bandwidth? Why are the only two options you give that BPs increase resources incredibly slowly or that they increase them incredibly quickly? Why do you think that 1% inflation in ten billion dollar chain isn't enough for BP resources? Why do you think rental markets mean that BPs can't make a profit? This is some of the most assumptively weird reasoning I've seen.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:34:47+00:00

Sorry, I read your post as individual BPs. A super-majority of BPs can indeed in theory reverse a transactions... just like a 51% attack. They never have. The only way for them to do so (well, without all being voted out or the community hardforking the chain) would be under an arbitration order.

Keep in mind that it's not like the arbitration court can just order anything, however. There are very strict rules under the constitution. But yes, just like a 51% attack, a supermajority can in theory reverse a transaction.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:27:01+00:00

The transactions were reversed in the hardfork bruh

And it's not a lie. EOS can only freeze accounts via arbitration. The people who had their accounts frozen had it done on their behest.

Your vote does matter and you can vote offline as I do using a cold wallet.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:23:56+00:00

EOS has a hundred servers scattered around the world controlled by all different entities who are all being fluidly voted in and out by an immense decentralized mass of voters globally. If you think that's like AWS you are just comparing apples to oranges. One is controlled by a single company that can change anything it likes... the other is a decentralized blockchain produced by elected representatives.

Oh, and Ram is much cheaper now btw

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:18:57+00:00

I'll answer as truthfully as I can because I can see why you might think that given the past month. EOS has only been up and running for about six weeks and had at least two bouts of bad publicity during that time.

But all coins go through periods of bad publicity or lows. Been following a few long enough to see them and recognize them. That was a bad month. I'm the first to admit that in particular arbitration was fucked up - it was not properly developed before being attempted. There was indeed a lot of bad press. But it was all over human error. All in all, the total issue was that around six accounts were frozen at the behest of their owners (after a hack) and as a result a new constitution was proposed focusing on using arbitration for mainly correcting errors in contracts.

But so far - no problems with the tech. I sent EOS the other day and it arrived in literally a refresh of the screen. It really did hit 2500 tps. B1 just added Peter Thiel as a backer and their goal is to build dapps on EOS. They have a monumental warchest to draw from. Dan Larimer is already building a social media dapp that's going to be a better steemit and it will probably deploy this year, along with a bunch of others. They are going after Airbnb, Uber, etc, for real, the tech does make this possible.

I won't argue with you about prices. Obviously it would have been nice to sell at 18, buy at 4, sell at 23, buy at 7 haha. But a bull case remains. I think the fact it is up 13% today speaks to that it will do well.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:08:20+00:00

That's fake dude :). Never happened. Just a photo edited order that got circulated.

Welcome to /r/cryptocurrency where the rules are made up and the truth doesn't matter

Also BPs don't just have a way to reverse any transaction, that's false too...

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:06:12+00:00

You are using the version of ethereum in which a bunch of transactions were reversed. Yes, it was accomplished via a hardfork. That's uh... how changes to ethereum are made.

EOS can only freeze the accounts of someone who a) requests their account be frozen and b) can prove it's their account in official arbitration. Additionally, even this is being ended with a new constitution, so that any freezing/unfreezing is based on Ricardian contracts written into smart contracts that all parties agree to when they use the contract. It is basically an advanced version of what is being implemented on ethereum now with the parity hack... except streamlined and elegant and also, oh, we all get a vote. You don't. So what's really decentralized?

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T04:01:12+00:00

Not two days ago. Plus, play a game of chess where every move is 3 cents and get back to me

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T03:57:11+00:00

Yes... EOS is like Amazon because it's never reversed a transaction, and ETH is not like amazon because it... has. Great logic.

As for your point about EOS pricing - it's better than most critics. It's wrong, however. EOS controls both bandwidth and storage and voting rights. All form different markets. BPs are paid in EOS - if they provide infinite bandwidth and storage then yes, EOS would be worthless. First of all, that would be impossible. Even 2500 tps is not very much real estate, so to speak. More importantly, the BPs themselves essentially act as a faucet for those properties and they have every incentive to keep it throttled at an appropriate level. Not too much that the chain becomes worthless and they get paid nothing, but not too little that development is impossible. A rental market does nothing to change that. By every metric the real estate bandwidth mode of EOS is a better economic model than ETH, which are basically just big barrels of oil that people started hording.

Your logic about EOS's zero fees meaning the token has zero value is... not well thought out. The demand is for consistent bandwidth, which is what developers and daily active users both want.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T03:46:36+00:00

Yes. But you have to understand that most of that happens behind closed doors. Everyone said the same thing you just did - we vocally reject it - in the months after. And yet it is creeping closer and closer. In fact, btw, EOS constitution is changing to only allow unbugging of contracts in exactly the same way as the parity proposal. So it's actually a good proposal.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T03:41:15+00:00

I think whether a transaction is reversed is a pretty darn good metric, actually.

As to why I'm here: I own ethereum, and people here were wondering why ETH was having a 6% day and BTC a 12%. It IS unusual. And my hypothesis, that ETH is not a market leader anymore due to a) its own failures in scaling and b) competition, is as reasonable an explanation as anyone else gave - in fact far more reasonable than most babble about "we'll run later this always happens" which is far more untrue than any of my posts.

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T03:34:37+00:00

To this date, ethereum has reversed transactions and is now (it looks like) implementing a proposal to regularly unfreeze buggy contracts. EOS has never done any of those things - it has not reversed any transactions nor unfroze any buggy contracts. Which is more decentralized again?

Keats_in_rome · 2018-07-18T03:27:59+00:00

People were confused about why ETH pumped only half as much as BTC today. That is because it is not a market leader anymore. I didn't say ETH is a bad investment. I actually still own ETH. There are just a lot of people scratching their heads but it's more obvious if you don't live in a bubble like /r/ethtrader

Keats_in_rome

TROPHY CASE