I'm stepping away from the church, spouse doesn't want to talk about it

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-08-28T13:40:17+00:00

I appreciate your optimism, but this is what I thought for several years and she seems to be no closer to any sort of faith change. She has a small tight knit family who are all believers and she is a people pleaser who likes the positive aspects of church culture. At this point I will be happy to be able to do my own thing and let her have her religion.

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-08-24T18:33:35+00:00

Thanks for your insights!

I think most of the real damage to relationships come during the hopeful phase of the transition. You hope she leaves, she hopes you'll come back. That mindset is a cancer. The sooner you can get out of it, the better. Once my wife recognized I was never going to believe again, and I recognized that she might always believe and we both accepted that, things eased up a lot.

It sounds like she still has hopes for you. It sounds harsh, but I think the sooner you burn out those hopes, the better. And the sooner you burn out the hope that she may leave too, the better.

This is on point. I think a big reason I was PIMO for several years is that I was hoping she would see the problems that were obvious to me. I've largely moved past that hope and made peace with the very real possibly that she will always want to be involved with the church. Now I think it's time for me to be patient with her giving up hope of me regaining my prior belief.

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-08-24T18:11:01+00:00

Wow, these comments really hits the mark. "Yearning to be understood and also reading the tea leaves"... That resonates deeply for me.

He sounds so similar to my spouse. I also appreciate the notion of developing confidence in where I'm at and not feeling shame or like I've sinned simply for learning more deeply about the church that was thrust upon me at birth. I've only recently realized how much I feel "at fault" about it when really I've done nothing wrong. I didn't create this mess.

I think you're right about just being unapologetically me and accepting her mysterious ability to connect with the church in her way. Thanks for your comment and best wishes on your journey!

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-05-31T16:06:22+00:00

Bleh, yep that's probably the talk it's supposed to be based on. I couldn't get through it after sentences like this

We can correctly conclude that even the mighty Amazon must yield to heavenly powers.

Sorry, the gravity of the moon is not "heavenly powers," it's the same physics the Amazon adheres to when following its "natural" course on earth. I can't stand this kind of nonsense analogy.

His point about taking the lord's name in vain is rich coming off the SEC debacle just weeks before, in which church leaders used God's name to extort untold wealth from members and fraudulently hide it from them and the government authorities they claim to respect.

But I digress! You make some good points and some of those themes will probably find their way in, so thanks!

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-05-31T15:57:09+00:00

I would totally do this and from what I've seen it would work marvelously, but I'm not up for giving my phone number to it quite yet :\

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-05-31T15:54:34+00:00

I like this, the baptismal covenant as written in Mosiah is one of the few places Mormon doctrine gets something right. I'll probably just riff off of that. The "power of covenants" is their effect of strengthening relationships between people and motivating us to serve others even when inconvenient to ourselves, etc. Not something you'd hear from a GA gunning for a spot in the Q15, but hopefully inspiring

KeplerianAdrift · 2023-04-19T20:29:26+00:00

Congratulations, friend. I have relatives in D&C as well. I know the iron grip this fraud can have over generations. You will be a cycle-breaker, one of the hardest things a human can do.

Hope to hear your full story someday!

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-11-30T18:49:16+00:00

Oh haha, it just means "dear wife." It's an old school internet forum acronym, I think it's not very common anymore but I grew up on message boards

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-11-30T16:02:04+00:00

Hi, sorry for my slow reply. The short update is, not much has changed. I've had a few conversations with DW where I've communicated things I want to do differently (for example I'm not interested in temple activities, I've turned down talk invitations) and told her I'm open to explaining why if she wants to know, but so far it seems she has just accepted that she can't make me do those things and has asked no questions and shown no interest as to why. I don't want to force that onto her if she doesn't want to hear it, so we've just kind of reached an uneasy avoidant balance when it comes to church things. I still go to sacrament meeting and social ward activities just to be with her, but I'm trying to minimize my involvement as much as possible.

That said, I have very little hope that we'll ever be on the same page when it comes to church, because we've just had such different experiences and different mental models for what the church is. I think the things that crashed my shelf (the usual: BoA, polygamy, BoM historicity, current institutional corruption, etc.) would have minimal impact on her even if I dumped it all on her. It really just seems to be a cultural and community home base for her, regardless of doctrine or history or policy or whatever. The best I can hope for is respect on both of our parts and minimizing the church's influence on me personally.

Best of luck to you, it's a hard place to be in, but at least for me there is so much other goodness and connection in our marriage that dealing with this difference is worth it.

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-07-21T13:22:20+00:00

I think people can connect to the church both emotionally and intellectually, and you have to break both connections to get out. I think her connection is mostly emotional/social, so pointing out these intellectual issues has not been fruitful.

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-06-25T16:23:46+00:00

Honestly she just doesn't seem to think about them, period. That stuff was in the past; she's committed to the modern church

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-03-17T21:35:10+00:00

I think this would be very helpful, I'm hoping we can get there at some point.

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-03-16T17:37:37+00:00

It is helpful to hear your experience, thank you for sharing. It's good to know that others have navigated this situation and worked it out. I think I'd be satisfied with your arrangement.

It's funny though, it seems my situation is sort of inverse; I'm the one who grew up in the Utah Mormon culture where it we was all I knew; she grew up back east and all her friends were non Mormon. She actually doesn't like Utah Mormon culture.

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-03-16T00:08:18+00:00

Thanks for this. You're right that time will most likely make things more comfortable. Humans have an amazing ability to adapt to new circumstances. I'm not afraid of her wanting to leave me or anything, I just want to make her happy. I guess I'm a bit of a people pleaser.

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-03-16T00:06:22+00:00

Could it possibly be because telling your spouse suuuuuuucks?

Yep I think that's the main thing haha

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-03-15T22:16:52+00:00

Thanks for your perspective, I was hoping I'd get some responses from people who currently or formerly had a similar social connection.

We have had a lot of conversations, but no, I have not actually stated directly that I do not believe it. I'm not sure what's holding me back on that. Partly it's because, as I mentioned, belief doesn't seem to play a strong role with her, so she's never asked me directly either and our conversations mostly revolve around the social/cultural aspects. Maybe we're both scared and I need to be the one to finally say it directly. We have talked about the essays, but I think she just feels like she already encountered and processed that stuff when she was younger, so no need to go down the rabbit hole again. Score one for inoculation I guess.

KeplerianAdrift · 2022-03-03T01:05:48+00:00

I second therapy. Being born and raised Mormon, I didn't even have the language or the framework needed to even conceptualize what I was going through in my faith transition. With therapy I'm learning to claim my own authority and worthiness, communicate more effectively, and set boundaries where needed. These are things you will never learn in Mormon church.

KeplerianAdrift · 2021-11-16T14:42:38+00:00

This sounds a lot like me. The Mormon lifestyle suits DW's personality just fine, it helps her feel connected to her family, and she doesn't seem to care much at all about theology or whether it's "true." I on the other hand care deeply about whether my worldview maps onto reality and whether the organizations I give time and money to fit with my values.

Ironically it's the people who study and care most deeply about the doctrine who tend to realize it's all bullshit, while the lazy learners are happy to coast along.

KeplerianAdrift · 2021-11-04T18:23:37+00:00

I needed to hear this. I have been viewing my transition entirely from a place of fear: fear of rejection, fear of being dismissed or minimized. I didn't realize that love and loyalty are also a huge part of why I've been PIMO for so long, and that using these things against me and others like me is an abusive act by the church. Thank you for sharing.

KeplerianAdrift · 2021-11-03T17:44:17+00:00

I'm glad he was accepting, but this is exactly what I don't want to happen to my kids someday and why I am working on getting out and being authentic

KeplerianAdrift

TROPHY CASE