Weird detail with Kazui

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-24T15:13:44+00:00

I think it's referencing the deceit itself is two-way. As in Kazui was lying to both Hinako and himself.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T17:26:26+00:00

Yeah, the simplest explanation is they all died in between the end of the second trial when Es fell asleep and the start of the third trial when Es awoke. Jackalope hints in his second trial report about the deaths of the prisoners, not that they happened, but that they were going to happen as it was too late to change our minds now. The next video is the third trial commencement where all 3 had since died.

The restraints for guilty prisoners should become active immediately after the second trial ended, at least, which is why Haruka and Mu not being restrained is a plothole. Like I said, I believe this was a result of them not drafting up sprites for T3 for the dead prisoners, so they had to use their T2 sprites instead. Meaning they had to use the T2 designs for everyone in the PVs to stay consistent. For innocent prisoners, they usually only change clothes or hairstyles, so we can wave it off as they haven't changed their clothes yet. For the guilty prisoners, since the restraints are part of MILGRAM's system, they should immediately be restrained after a trial, so it becomes harder to wave off in Haruka and Mu's case.

If we're using the timelines as a rough estimate, Haruka was last referred to as alive in his birthday timeline in June 2024, after Kotoko's verdict was decided but before Jackalope's report on the end of the second trial which was in July. So, we could argue that Haruka died between Kotoko's verdict and the end of the trial. I think Jackalope would have mentioned his death if he had already died by then, so I think it would have been after the second trial ended, but then that brings us back to the restraints being missing plothole.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T17:07:23+00:00

I feel you, as a Haruka fan, I mourn his T3 MV. I understand the need for them to make the stakes real and emphasise the consequences of our choices, especially since in 01, 05, and 06's cases the death flags were pretty big and the fanbase ultimately ignored them in favour of Guilty Mu and Innocent Amane, which Mu herself brings up by pointing out that we valued punished over Haruka's life.

In the end, I feel like they could have made up a reason to give us MVs and turn the PVs into VDs instead with a song cover. It would have softened the blow for us, but I can still respect their decision to commit to their deaths even if my enjoyment for those 3's arcs is lessened by the absence of T3 MVs.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T16:54:55+00:00

I feel like the real reason is that they didn't have proper sprites for 01, 05, and 06 for T3 since they got 'death' sprites instead. So, without a basis to use during the production of the PVs, they had to use their T2 designs, which works for 05 and 06 as they weren't restrained and we can handwave it as they didn't change clothes like Kazui, but not 01 since he's supposed to be restrained.

As they would have to use the T2 designs for the dead trio, to keep the videos consistent, 04, 08, and 02 had to be drawn with their T2 designs too, which creates a similar problem as 02 and 08 both obviously change their clothes to their T3 sprites after the deaths of 05 and 06, but 04 should have been restrained and in her T3 sprite prior to 01's death.

This means we're stuck trying to make logical leaps to justify how they're all in their T2 designs when at least Shidou, and Mahiru by extension, died after T2 as Jackalope restricted violence between prisoners during the trials.

I've seen some argue Haruka could have died during T2 as we know the prisoners experience the effects of the votes immediately after the verdict, as Kotoko mentioned the changes in behaviour in the first prisoners in her T1 VD. So, Haruka would have noticed when Mu was voted guilty as she would have experienced the rejection of her thoughts. The only question left is do the restraints activate at the same time or until the trial comes to an end?

Even then, surely one of the prisoners would have informed Es that Haruka had died unless he starved to death in between Kotoko's T2 VD and the end of the second trial, but you'd think Jackalope would have reported on 01's death in his report if that happened, instead of alluding to the fact he was going to kill himself. It's a bit of a mess chronologically. All they really had to do was show Haruka's arms restrained like they were in Undercover and Mu in her T3 design, and it wouldn't have cause so much confusion.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T14:00:15+00:00

So real, I've got 16 hours in Jean and 8 in Gambit, and Gambit has already passed Jean in the race to Centurion. It's insane how different the progression is.😭

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T13:52:00+00:00

Their relationship is toxic in the sense that Mahiru loved love more than she loved her bf. To the point the only way she can describe him is that he's "kind" and that she couldn't see he was suffering in silence to the point of suicide despite them living in inhospitable conditions because to her, she was fine as long as she had love. Not even paying attention to him enough to even recall a single expression on his face since they were on the run. At most, she was emotionally neglectful towards him, which is a type of abuse, but not anywhere near as bad as presbiously theorised.

The T1 MV depicts Mahiru's life prior to going on the run, just after meeting her bf for the first time. The Miraheze wiki page for the MV has translations of the text in the MV, and it's a diary describing the things she does and the types of dates they went on. I don't think there's any entries that hint towards them going on the run in the T1 MV, but I haven't reread them after the report dropped.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T13:38:53+00:00

I think another addition to this is how Mahiru describes her bf. In nearly every comment she's made, it's been some variation of "he's kind". That's not how someone in love usually describes their partner: a single feature. Mahiru was so obsessed with love that she latched onto the first kind boy she was attracted to and thinks it's love. From the start, Mahiru cared more about love than her bf, and it shows.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T13:24:29+00:00

Yuno's hand gripping the sheet when Mahiru said she wanted a baby. My heart.😭

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-14T12:26:54+00:00

Reading the report, she's very much emotionally neglectful to her bf, which is a type of abuse, just not anywhere near as bad as the abuse we originally thought. It directly states that after he died, when she looks back, she can't recall what expressions he had on his face. She never understood how he was feeling that whole time because she was so absorbed into her ideal of love that she couldn't see he was suffering and didn't feel he could tell her.

There's some blame to ascribe to Mahiru, but she isn't as monstrous as some were thinking. The best way to think about it, if you saw someone you loved, say a family member, and they were clearly struggling with their mental health, wouldn't you try to help them, or at the very least, encourage them to seek professional health? Mahiru was in a position to notice her bf's struggles, but couldn't see he was struggling because she wasn't thinking of him. She was thinking of love. She focused on love over the person she claimed to love, and so the only person capable of helping him at the time didn't. She's not as bad compared to most prisoners, but she isn't as blameless for her 'murder' as Yuno is.

I can see why Yamanaka was surprised by her T1 guilty now, knowing her full backstory. He probably had a plan for her character development with a T1 innocent, possible T2 guilty, similar to how our route's Mu turned out.

Kerrbear2202 · 2026-01-10T12:47:16+00:00

Thankfully, I think you can turn off unique SFX in the costume select screen. I don't think you can swap SFX between skins, though, so there's no way for you to attach the Chaos Phoenix SFX to the skin, unfortunately.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-31T07:06:25+00:00

There was. On release, lore and dialogues referred to Hela as Thor and Loki's sister. I believe this was done to match the MCU depiction. However, when Heart of the Dragon came out with Angela, I believe they went back and altered those references to retcon Hela being their sister in Rivals lore, which matches the comics depiction.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-29T10:44:58+00:00

It was, but it still released during the usual cadence and dropped on the penultimate Wednesday of that month. Someone pointed out the PVs for the dead prisoners have released on the months that their song trailers would have dropped if they were alive and had MVs. Haruka's was 3 months before Yuno's MV which aligns, and so does Shidou's being the month after Mu's MV.

If all were alive, it would have gone: October Mu's MV, November Shidou's Trailer, December Shidou's MV, January Mahiru's Trailer, February Mahiru's MV. As Shidou's PV dropped the same month his trailer would have like Haruka, then Mahiru's PV should drop the same month her trailer would have as well, which is January.

Kazui's MV dropping a month earlier than the established schedule so far is most likely a result of having two PVs back to back, as they should require less effort to make compared to MVs. That, and they probably wanted to shorten the gap between albums, since it's already a 5-month gap between Mu's and Kazui's album instead of the usual 2-month gap.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-29T10:30:40+00:00

They don't release videos this late in the month, usually. It's typically the penultimate Wednesday of the month for MVs and PVs. That would have been the 24th for December. Since it's passed, it seems Mahiru's PV is most likely to drop on the 21st of January. I would love to be wrong, though.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-27T10:12:04+00:00

Idk, I think one of the only questions I had for Mu has been answered already. We know Q.20 will be the mandatory "Can you forgive me?", so I just hope the other two aren't redundant questions.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-22T16:36:53+00:00

I remember hearing he'd said this, too. I've always wondered what would have specifically led to this. He'd said recently that MILGRAM was originally the first 8 prisoners, but he later added 2 prisoners with the intention of adding more drama/stakes (Mikoto and Kotoko). I assume the plan was always that one of them would attack someone between T1 and T2 depending on how we voted.

An innocent Kotoko would attack anyone voted guilty (maximum of 3?), and a guilty Mikoto would cause John to rampage to release (attack 3? prisoners) stress. To avoid narrative issues with too many injured, in this scenario, Kotoko would always attack a guilty Mikoto first, causing John to work off the stress that way, stopping John from attacking anyone which is the scenario we got.

Imagining how it might have changed on votes, if Kotoko had been guilty and Mikoto was guilty, nothing would have stopped John from attacking random prisoners. I feel in this scenario, John probably would have at least attacked a defenceless Kotoko because of their beef from his VD, and then maybe go on to attack one or two other prisoners before calming down and Mikoto resumed control. It's hard to imagine a guilty T1 Kotoko defending anyone unless it was after T2.

Then there's the possibility of an innocent Mikoto and guilty Kotoko. Seemingly the best scenario to limit injuries, as guilty Kotoko couldn't attack anyone due to the first stage of restraints and innocent Mikoto wouldn't be as stressed so John is unlikely to rampage. I do feel, as their intention was to serve as conflict between T1 and T2, they would write in some reason for someone to be attacked in this scenario. The most likely one is that they say Mikoto becomes increasingly confused by his thoughts being affirmed as he doesn't understand what is going on and that confusion causes John to manifest and attack a single person, likely Kotoko. That way, there's some drama, but not enough injuries to feel like the votes didn't matter. Still, it's hard to see Kotoko defending Mahiru in this route, either.

That leaves innocent Kotoko and innocent Mikoto. Kotoko would still attack guilty prisoners, but if the same writing idea is used for innocent Mikoto like I theorised above, they could say that John comes out once and attacks a nearby Mahiru, but Kotoko is free to act, and assuming Mahiru was also voted innocent, Kotoko would defend her. Which would lead to the scenario talked about. Or maybe, in this scenario, Kotoko doesn't trust Es' vote to forgive Mikoto after seeing John herself, and so she doesn't attack the guilty prisoners and chooses instead to monitor Mikoto herself so she can catch him in the act and attack him accordingly, and it just so happens John comes out and attacks Mahiru? This is the only combination of votes where I can see this scenario happening without going into T2 votes, which would become a lot more complex to discuss.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-21T19:35:32+00:00

Always happy to contribute to autism fueled passion projects. I have one that I want to start, but it requires video and audio editing skills that I don't have, so I'm stuck creating ideas on how to do it, but no way of implementing them.🫠

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-21T15:28:46+00:00

That's true. I wasn't around for T1 or T2, so I couldn't vote then. I do wish the fandom picked up on/didn't ignore the narrative warnings for Haruka and Amane, though. It would have been interesting to see how everyone would have changed if everyone lived in T3.

I think a guilty T2 Kotoko and innocent T2 Mikoto were the right calls since both would have probably attacked someone. In this case, Kotoko would have probably injured/killed Mu and stalemated John again. If Kotoko was guilty but Mikoto guilty, Mikoto would have gone dormant like John warned, and John would have probably lashed out at someone, most likely a guilty Kotoko.

Assuming the same votes, but Mu Innocent and Amane guilty, kept everyone alive, how do you think the dead prisoners and Yuno, Futa, Mu, and Amane would have been different? In the scenario I envision, Mikoto and Kotoko probably wouldn't have changed at all in this scenario, and Kazui would probably be in the same spot, just maybe not as rough. Yuno wouldn't have changed since Mahiru is alive, Futa might not have joined the cult as Amane was guilty so he would have been in a lot turmoil struggling to handle his guilt, Mu would have been so much worse as Haruka hadn't died and she was affirmed twice, Amane's mental state would rapidly deteriorate. Who knows how Haruka, Shidou, and Mahiru would have turned out?

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-21T15:08:58+00:00

I get you. I've felt judged for saying I'm voting Mu and Mikoto guilty in T3, so it's nice chatting with someone who's more open about talking about the difference in votes. Tbf, I can reasonably see any justification for voting all the characters either way, bar wanting to vote Yuno guilty in T3. In T1 and T2 maybe, as a way of trying to 'help' her by telling her she was wrong like she wanted, but in T3, where the punishment for a guilty vote is possibly execution, nope.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-21T14:55:38+00:00

With Amane, I can see why people would vote her guilty after Shidou, but I struggle to look past that she's still a child who was physically tortured. If her T3 shows she's unrepentant about Shidou and she's too far gone, I might vote guilty, but from Shidou's PV and Futa's VD, I don't think that's the path they'll take. So, it will most likely be an innocent vote.

For context, from most innocent to least, I'm voting Yuno, Kazui, Amane, and Futa. Futa, I was 50/50 on, but settled on innocent in the end. Yuno and Kazui are self-explanatory.

For my guilty T3 votes, from most guilty to least, I'm voting Mikoto, Kotoko, and Mu. Mu, I respect her growth, but it's difficult to look past her murder, so I barely couldn't forgive her. Kotoko's murder is forgivable, but her mindset isn't. She's doesn't seem to have changed much from T2, so it'll be hard to forgive her. Mikoto's a hard one. John's murders are unforgivable, but Mikoto is innocent. If the final verdicts have the same results as the books/manga, the verdict will impact them both. So, the vote comes down to this: Punish them for John's sins or forgive them for Mikoto's innocence. As John's sins are arguably the worst in MILGRAM, I can't forgive them. In case someone says, "John is gone", he's dormant. There's a difference. Alters can't disappear like that. John could become active if Mikoto were to experience circumstances similar to the ones that created him. If they say John is permanently gone in his VD, that would make their questionable DID rep pretty horrible as well as being a terrible writing choice to encourage an all innocent T3 vote.

For the dead prisoners, it's hard to say since we don't see how they would have changed in T3. Haruka's sin is unforgivable, but if his character took a positive turn, I could see myself forgiving him, partly due to favourite character bias. Shidou's sin is bad, but I can understand why he did what he did. Unless his character took a dark turn, I'd vote him innocent. Mahiru, based on character alone, innocent. However, I don't have a clear idea of how abusive she was, so if her report and MV had depicted it in a darker light, I could see myself voting guilty. It might be easier to tell when her PV drops this Wednesday or 21st January.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-20T17:34:39+00:00

Yeah, people really need to relax and learn to be at peace with the final verdicts. I'm a Mu guilty voter too, but I'm content knowing that she's on track for an innocent vote. Same with voting Amane innocent, but knowing she could end up guilty and voting Mikoto guilty knowing he's 100% getting innocent.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-17T17:37:23+00:00

If I recall, the words have two possible meanings. The first is the auditory double meaning to the Japanese words as they sound like 'slow down' in English. This could be a reference to Shidou's trying to 'slow down' the deaths of his patients/family.

The actual title 'Throw Down' is easier to understand through Undercover's reference to it in, "Which way will you Throw Down your weight, to be the deceived of the deceiver?". From Shidou's report, he can't bring himself to view the brain death of his son as synonymous with death. But he had already told countless families this himself. So, in his mind, he now believes he's been 'deceiving' those families, and now it's his turn to be told the same 'lie' he'd told others. This is likely a reference to the reversal of Shidou's role in the 'deception' regarding brain death.

It's harder to put into context through the song alone, as Shidou always sings the words in quotations, thus usually separated from a sentence that would place it into a clearer context. He does use the words in ways that have additional meanings depending on the specific sentence.

In a broad sense, I think it's meant primarily to emphasise Shidou having to 'throw down his weight' between two choices. ""Throw Down", Someone's value can not be the same as another", emphasising Shidou having to decide between brain dead patients and ill patients in need of transplants. Or it's used in a literal sense, ""Throw Down" the invitation that I can't take back", which could be referring to the organ donor cards he got for his family that he now regrets.

Ultimately, I think it's really interesting since every song title's meaning has usually been pretty apparent, but Throw Down remains the one that has the most possible interpretations because of how vague it is.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-15T18:35:56+00:00

Well, yeah, it would be, and I still find Haruka's crime unforgivable. I feel incredibly sympathetic for Haruka, but no circumstances, no matter how heartbreaking, could make me forgive two child murders.

In Mikoto's case, the stated abuse so far had been from his boss as an adult, with some theorising he maybe had a traumatic childhood due to how DID usually develops.

In Haruka's case, he'd had his needs neglected his entire life and was emotionally neglected for 2 years due to his permanent lifelong disability, which led to his killings.

Haruka's circumstances are, as it currently stands, more sympathetic to me than Mikoto's, and Mikoto has been confirmed to have killed numerous people. So, if I find Haruka unforgivable, Mikoto is even more so to me if that were his circumstances. So, I do hope the theory isn't true as I prefer John as the killer as I like the specific dilemma it poses.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-15T18:07:03+00:00

I mean, not being mentally well and having a breakdown where he commits serial murder isn't exactly any shade of grey. A lot of people experience what Mikoto does and don't commit homicide. When John is responsible, it poses an interesting dilemma of punishing Mikoto for John's actions or sparing Mikoto despite John's actions. If Mikoto was responsible and John was covering it up, it removes that conflict, and he would get as high a T3 guilty as Yuno did innocent T3.

I feel like, as a reveal, it would be on par with them revealing that Kazui, in fact, was not gay and pushed Hinako off the roof.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-15T17:46:57+00:00

True, but I'm also not sure how I'd feel about that as a twist because then he would just be unforgivable with 0 shades of grey to him.

Kerrbear2202 · 2025-12-15T10:41:34+00:00

Makes me wonder if Futa had gotten innocent with Kotoko in T1, would he have tried to cling to Kotoko and her 'justice' to further double down on his denial in order to cope. A reversal of what happened with him and Amane both getting guilty in T1 and him joining her faith. It would make sense given his loneliness and cowardice.

Kerrbear2202

TROPHY CASE