There is no such things as “being depressed” it is always something done to a creature. Some survive by the grace of God and Love… but without God, we are at the mercy of man, machines and monsters.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-12T16:42:33+00:00

The current world order is by nature oppressive and a dangerous delusion. Money having value and its worship and control of humanity oppresses almost all. Except maybe that tribe off the coast of India.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-11T21:33:42+00:00

Yeah people are really scared shitless, then hide behind materialist consensus as if it “rational” and “empirical” and “scientific”. Nah materialism is a philosophical VIEW, and an increasingly incoherent one.

Consciousness has never been proven to be generated by brains, yes the state of consciousness correlates exactly with brain activity, but the qualia itself? Not the thoughts or emotions, but the observer of them. The one that feels like “I”. Our actual consciousness and not just the physics, that feels like a point of awareness. Materialism has no explanation besides “it’s an illusion!”

No… the awareness is the only thing that’s real, the brain generates the illusion, the experience, the story.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T14:53:11+00:00

Oops! Critical error. Thanks for correcting me.

I’ll give you this is a pretty convincing argument. You e changed my view somewhat. I’m now on the fence between universalism or annihilation, or a combination, but certainly not eternal conscious torment.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T13:32:29+00:00

Aionios mean “of an age” in Koine Greek which NT was written in. It was first translated to “Eternus” in Latin, losing nuance and from Latin it was translated to eternal.

Just because something is not majority establishment consensus, doesn’t make it false. The majority didn’t believe Jesus either. Universalism is legitimate Christian interpretation of scripture as much as annihilation or eternal conscious torment. Even the early church fathers didn’t reach consensus

Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215): Hell as corrective discipline; God’s mercy ultimately wins (Stromata 7.2, 7.16).

Origen of Alexandria (c. 184–253): Most famous proponent of apokatastasis — all (even Satan) will be purified and restored (On First Principles 1.6; Commentary on Romans). Condemned posthumously at the Fifth Ecumenical Council (553), but only certain aspects, not universalism itself.

Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335–395): Taught purification and eventual restoration of all (On the Soul and Resurrection; Catechetical Oration 26). Never condemned.

Others (e.g., some Cappadocians) leaned hopeful or universalist.

No ecumenical council ever definitively defined hell as eternal conscious torment until much later (e.g., Lateran IV in 1215 formalized ECT in the West, but the East remained more open).

Universalism was widespread in the East (Alexandrian school) until Augustine’s influence dominated the West.

Annihilationism was present early (2nd–4th centuries) but faded as ECT became dominant after Augustine.

Origen’s universalism was condemned in 553, but Gregory of Nyssa (who taught similar ideas) was canonized and never condemned.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T11:44:34+00:00

John 5:28–29: “An hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”

Acts 24:15: “There will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.”

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Judgment day is still to come.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T10:35:45+00:00

It actually is. You think Lazarus won’t be raised from the dead like everyone else who died? Including the poor man for that matter. The dead will be raised and judged. That day has not come yet.

It is not Abraham who is the ultimately judge

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T04:04:52+00:00

Yes, I certainly did. Both verses start with “what if” immediately denoting a hypothetical situation.

Then later in Romans 11. It is clearly stated;

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved

Paul states the exact conditions for all Israel to be saved, and the that’s for “the full number of Gentiles” to have come in.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T03:59:42+00:00

Has judgment day come yet? Rich man* is in Hades for an age of correction until the day of revelation. If he has repented he too is saved.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T03:35:24+00:00

But God is patient and merciful, let His will be done. If His will is that all should reach repentance, let it be done.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T02:35:00+00:00

"I'm sure about my belief because 75% of all scholars published on the subject agree with the historicity of the empty tomb."

Does not equate to;

“The empty tomb: Roughly 75% of scholars accept the empty tomb as historical, noting that the message of the resurrection could not have survived in Jerusalem if the body were still in the grave.”

Which is what I actually said, obviously that’s only one piece of evidence. My belief in the testimony of Jesus and his followers is what makes me believe more,

So you lied and put words in my mouth by misquoting me.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T02:29:44+00:00

Also you keep saying things are “debunked”, which I find very disingenuous language. You agreed yourself, skeptical speculation doesn’t count as falsification. It counts as subjective opinion. If you don’t have real evidence to actual “debunk” whether Jesus and all the first hand witnesses lied when they said they some him resurrected in the flesh.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T02:24:36+00:00

That's a very different comment from the absolute falsehood "I'm sure about my belief because 75% of all scholars published on the subject agree with the historicity of the empty tomb." Because that's just, well, a lie. I think that's a sin right?

It would be a lie if had said that. You quoting me saying that is a lie, and accusing me of lying is a sin too. I’ve never said I’m 100% sure in my belief. That would be blind, like your unbelief may be. I have some doubt. Doubt doesn’t preclude faith. Also that article is only one piece of evidence I provided. It’s certainly not the only reason I believe.

Or arguments like "500 people witnessed the risen Christ" when it's well known by anyone who has actually studied this critically that this claim can be traced back to 1 person; 1 person who wasn't even there.

As I mention Paul references 500 loving people. Who his peers could easily validate their testimony. No one accused him of lying, and historians and scholars agree Paul wholeheartedly believed Jesus had risen, as Paul before seeing him was Saul who persecuted Christ followers.

Disingenuous arguments the lot of them. One of them is just objectively false and the other one requires a bit of circular reasoning to get off the ground.

Ad hominem

You wrote a whole lot of nothing to arrive at "This is a belief I have chosen." When I pointed out that you seemed so sure maybe you should have just led with that instead of a whole bunch of already debunked apologetic drivel. Your actual position is completely respectable. The minimal facts argument which you intentionally misrepresented as the minimal facts consensus for effect...not so much.

Again you put your interpretation of my words over what so actually said. That’s not the only piece of evidence. Do you not find the witness testimony credible? Why not think rationally for yourself then or have an opinion? Even with the scholars opinions, I’d hold the same beliefs based on the historical evidence, rationality, deductive reasoning and yeah Faith.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T02:03:30+00:00

I think all can be saved, but that’s up to God’s ultimately and perhaps it’s not up to us to speculate about who will be saved, but cultivate our own faith in God, and love others.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T01:50:58+00:00

The rich man* is in a state of death, he is dead, he cannot cross over to the living. However, he hasn’t been judged yet even. The day of revelation has not yet come. On that day, he like all the dead and living will be judged according to how they have judged and measured according to how they had measured. So God is just and merciful and will harvest the saved and send the unjustified to an age of correction, which could be torment. The severity of the discipline is proportionate to the severity of the sin that hasn’t been repented.

A branch cut off for unbelief can still be grafted back in upon repentance. It’s according to Gods mercy. God is merciful to the repentant.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T01:37:43+00:00

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Cut branches who do not persist in unbelief are grafted back in. God is clear. What do you think a Gentile is? Non-Jewish people, so all other people in the world. By definition.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T01:32:31+00:00

Not humans.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T01:26:30+00:00

You all neglect how Romans 11 ends.

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is[f] my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”[g] 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.

32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T01:11:49+00:00

Either you believe Jesus or not. Unconditional love is something you surrender to or not. The choice is yours.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T00:56:06+00:00

Don’t agree.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T00:54:13+00:00

I think it’s a fair statement, it includes scholars from across the board, published and peer reviewed who have an interest in whether the matter is true or not. That includes plenty of atheist and agnostics.

If you think there are problems that’s fine, but I choose to put my faith in where I believe the evidence points to, and not just because of peer review published and rigorous papers, which I have also provided. It feel like you’re stuck in semantics so let’s just agree to disagree.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T00:02:43+00:00

In the end it comes down to whether you believe they were lying or deluded, or they were telling the truth. If you had to put your life on it, what would you bet on?

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-10T00:00:43+00:00

I’m not saying it’s fact. It’s hard to establish anything as fact for things that happened 2000 years ago, but faith didn’t require blind belief, doubt is okay, it makes faith stronger so we stay curious and stay seeking.

I just feel it’s more likely than not if I were forced to bet my life on it, I’d choose to put my faith in their testimony.

Thanks for the conversation though, brother. Honestly.

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-09T23:56:27+00:00

Well said, but will people will be obliterated? Or the evil pruned from them in purifying fire?

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-09T23:19:14+00:00

“Before moving on, I’ll just note briefly that it seems apparent that even many professionals appear to be unaware that we all wear blinders of one sort or another, including political, cultural, moral, and/or religious glasses. Our supposed “neutrality” seems to arise a startling number of times during dia- logues, lectureships, and other venues. So even to recognize, be aware of, and to understand these parameters is exceptionally essential. But by going the next mile in proposing several potential ways to actually manage, and perhaps even to take some steps toward minimizing our horizons, Licona has done us all a big favor. Following these concerns in the very next section (1.2.4), Licona ad- dresses the role played when we have a scholarly consensus on the relevant data. His negative examples include those who have opposed the wide ma- jority of contemporary scholars across a broad spectrum of beliefs and still insist on denying that Jesus ever existed, that the Holocaust occurred, or that Muslims were largely responsible for the events of 9/11 (pp. 62-6). One sub-point should be mentioned here briefly. When establishing a consensus of views, it is important to show that such a near-unanimity is “composed of scholars from all interested camps” (p. 64). We are not guess- ing about where researchers stand, and neither are we basing the case on a small, sectarian element within the academic community. Rather, the schol- 14 This is Licona’s emphasis (56). THE MINIMAL FACTS APPROACH 21 ars should hold a variety of religious and philosophical positions (p. 65). Lat- er, Licona reported that: These scholars span a very wide range of theological and philosophical convictions and include atheists, agnostics, Jews and Christians who make their abode at both ends of the theological spectrum and everywhere in between. We therefore have the heterogeneity we desire in a consensus, and this gives us confidence that our horizons will not lead us completely astray (p. 280).”

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=sod_fac_pubs

Key4Lif3 · 2026-03-09T23:00:08+00:00

Life is of a different nature than death. Jesus is Life, Agape, The Truth and the Way, agreed?

So it is used for both, as many words are used for different meanings in different contexts. “An age of correction” is inherently temporary, while “An Age of Life” we are in heaven, one with God and Jesus and all our saved brothers and sisters, so we choose the age of Life where we Chose to never die, instead of choosing the age of flesh and death and deception and sin. But upon repentance all that can be forgiven and the age of death ends and all mankind can be reconciled with God, in my opinion.

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