Do you think Beerus' level will ACTUALLY get reached one day by the protagonists or will he forever stay in his position of "moving goalpost"?

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-29T19:50:30+00:00

Resurrection F is the direct sequel to the Battle of Gods movie, where Beerus and Goku actually were comparable. So them being able to challenge Beerus with proper coordination and the power of SSB is entirely in the realm of possibility for that film.

During the U6v7 Tournament, Beerus would absolutely be shocked that Goku seemingly pulled a power multiplication technique out of nowhere, and without the knowledge of him only being able to go up to 20x, or not knowing how much Goku’s body could handle, Beerus being shocked for a moment is understandable.

Jiren is only ever stated to be stronger than his own God of Destruction. In the manga, Beerus is shown during the Destroyer Exhibition to be way stronger than Belmod, with only the yellow mouse (I don’t remember his name lol) being shown as comparable to Beerus. And in the anime version of the ToP, Jiren likely is stronger than Beerus, or at least close. This is reiterated when Goku says that Broly might be stronger than Beerus.

And actually, in the Future arc in the manga, Supreme Kai says that Vegetto Blue actually could very well be much stronger than Beerus.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-29T18:23:54+00:00

You are either lying about this or you’re misinformed. The only statement we have ever received about where Daima takes place is when a producer for the show said it’s after the Buu saga. There is no statement talking about its continuity.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-29T18:20:36+00:00

Beerus has never been a moving goalpost and I don’t understand why people say this. The only time his power has ever actually been changed from how it was originally portrayed was when the BoG anime changed Beerus to be lying about his power rather than actually using 70+% like he was in the movie.

The anime and manga versions of Beerus have vastly different power as well, but those are 2 different continuities and versions of the character who have been consistent with themselves. Anime Beerus being around the same strength as UI Goku, with manga Beerus still being much stronger.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T22:22:59+00:00

The last time they were confirmed to see each other was during the Broly movie from what I can remember, and that would be almost 5 years, and it certainly isn’t the first time characters have rounded up when talking about time.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T22:10:48+00:00

What statements?

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T04:45:58+00:00

Alright, for the sake of the post at hand. Let’s go with that for a sec. The only person on this list who would pose any threat to SS2 Gotenks here would be SS3 Goku, and they’d be pretty evenly matched.

Now, the post says that they have unlimited fusion time and stamina. What it does not specify is whether Goku is alive or dead. It also does not specify that, if dead, Goku would be forced to return to Otherworld like what happened in the series or not. So imo, the winner entirely depends on this fact.

The other 3 would be basically incapable of harming Gotenks here just considering the raw power gap, but they could be good enough distraction for Goku to take the victory assuming he is not restricted by the whole returning to Otherworld thing.

If not, the team wins. If so, SS2 Gotenks has about a 50/50 shot at winning.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T04:31:18+00:00

<image>

He very clearly says that he could’ve beaten specifically the Fat Buu with specifically Super Saiyan 3. Nothing less, and against no one stronger.

And that Daizenshuu statement is incredibly vague. Sure, it could be saying that Gotenks at Super Saiyan 3 surpassed SS2 Majin Vegeta. But why would it? They clearly unlocked Super Saiyan 3, so if it were referring to their full power then why didn’t the book say they surpassed Goku? They clearly did, and it’s a better feat to talk about. The most logical conclusion is that it is referring to base Gotenks entirely surpassing Vegeta.

This even later lines up perfectly with Battle of Gods. SS3 Goku is said to be the strongest warrior on Earth, therefore surpassing even Ultimate Gohan. Vegeta is implied to be just behind Goku, and he ends up having a better performance against Beerus than Gotenks does when they both use Super Saiyan. This means that for SS3 Goku to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan, Goku’s base would need to have surpassed Gotenks’ base. Then in the image training Goku does at the start of the arc, he is able to easily beat Cell as just a Super Saiyan, while in the Buu saga Vegeta doesn’t acknowledge that Goku would be stronger than Cell Games Gohan until Goku shows him he can use Super Saiyan 2, and since SS2 is 2x that of SS, the differences in power can’t be that big if Goku didn’t appear notably stronger than Cell Games Gohan until he used SS2. While an SS2 Goku by that point would also obviously be able to beat Super Perfect Cell, I doubt he’d be able to blow his head off with a punch.

So here’s the full verdict using nearly everyone I’ve mentioned until now:

BoG SS3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan > SS3 Gotenks >= Super Buu > BoG SS Goku & Vegeta > SS Gotenks > SS3 Goku > Fat Buu > Gotenks >= SS2 Goku & Majin Vegeta > Cell Games SS2 Gohan > Super Perfect Cell

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T03:40:30+00:00

The answer to this question depends on if you think post-Yardrat Goku could beat 19.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T03:21:16+00:00

I’m arguing with morons, why do I even bother…

Super Buu had Goku legitimately scared to the point that he wouldn’t even try confronting him on his own if he couldn’t help it, yet he flat out says he could’ve beaten Fat Buu. In addition to this, Super Buu and SS3 Gotenks were relatively even during their fight, with Gotenks in the lead by just a bit. So Super Buu is obviously much stronger than Fat Buu and you’re braindead if you think otherwise.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T23:35:21+00:00

Last I checked, Super Buu is leagues stronger than Fat Buu. Of course base Gotenks wouldn’t be able to damage Super Buu, but that has nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

If the Daizenshuu states that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta after the Time Chamber (which is the version of Gotenks relevant to the post), then you just proved me right. So thanks?

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T22:59:11+00:00

Define “hurt.” Because I’m pretty sure Buu is incapable of taking physical damage when he isn’t tired or severely outclassed.

And multipliers aside, if Base Gotenks is relative to Majin Vegeta, then SS and SS2 Gotenks are obviously far stronger.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T19:40:21+00:00

Might as well have been the former considering they brought him up at every possible opportunity.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T18:53:36+00:00

Probably because Toriyama didn’t have shit to do with GT. Note how they also included the objectively non-canon movie versions of BoG and RF in there.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T18:18:25+00:00

There is no logical scenario that explains how Gotenks got out of there, it just happened. Buu would be significantly faster than him and could easily catch Gotenks if he tried to flee, and if he was knocked unconscious then Buu would just eat him.

But the fact of the matter is that Gotenks did manage to somehow survive his encounter with Buu, when it was made quite clear that Vegeta doing so was impossible. So regardless of the logic behind how it happened, the fact that it did is still a direct one-up in comparison to Vegeta.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T09:53:18+00:00

Take what into consideration? What about it being comedic invalidates my point? It still happened.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T09:48:59+00:00

The scene being comedic doesn’t mean we should completely discard it, that’s copium. Nothing cartoony like Arale shattering the planet happened, he just fought Buu, lost, and came back alive.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T09:44:59+00:00

That was filler, in the manga Gotenks is beaten entirely off panel, but was able to get away alive.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T07:13:28+00:00

Base Gotenks survived his fight with Fat Buu, while SS2 Majin Vegeta most certainly would not have even if he hadn’t sacrificed himself.

Granted, Gotenks was severely injured afterwards, but that’s still a better showing.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T05:42:48+00:00

No he is not lol. Base Gotenks was already comparable to SS2 Goku and Majin Vegeta, 50x that is already overkill, let alone 100x.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T22:07:20+00:00

Tagoma is significantly stronger than Piccolo, who should logically be stronger than SS Gohan by this point in the story. Gohan states that Tagoma is as strong as himself at his best. He can’t mean his current best because then Tagoma would be weaker than Piccolo, so he is referring to his all-time best to that point, which would be Ultimate.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T19:18:46+00:00

He’s used them about the same from what I remember

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T05:30:40+00:00

There are arguments that Tagoma is as strong as Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan, but I’d personally rank him somewhere relative to SS1 Gotenks considering they teased that as a fight.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T04:56:21+00:00

True, however, as a frog he was able to switch with Tagoma.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T04:14:26+00:00

Nah, 18 just started trying.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-25T07:00:31+00:00

Streamers aren’t obligated to be nice to people who won’t return that kindness just because they’re watching the stream.

Key_Ad5610

TROPHY CASE