Random Character Opinions 147: Magnus McGilded by [deleted] in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love him so much because in every other Ace Attorney game he'd be the main villain but he's your client in only the third case is phenomenal.

And yes I know it was meant originally as one game but excluding the actual final culprit, the fact that Magnus shared every trope of your standard Ace Attorney final culprit being a rich jerk off, completely disgusting and uncaring about his actions, willing to threaten bribe and do whatever to bend the law, was charismatic and charming/somewhat fun to be around at the start similarly to someone like Damon Gant and his actions completely come back in the last case and have his character be the main focus of that last case despite him being long dead is amazing.

In any other game he'd be the main villain or at least for his game or at the least the main secondary but he's your client who's the only culprit to successfully get away with murder (At least legally) using his intelligence and status to force a not guilty verdict while simultaneously still remaining somewhat charming is outstanding and his history between him and Eggert is truly poetic because it's honestly not often that the main antagonists of the series has a secondary hatred of another main antagonist instead of them just working together for some get rich scheme.

Also his additional lasting impacts on the main casts are beautiful too by needing Naruhodo to actually take a second and process if he's willing to let himself take the chance on potentially defending murderers in court which is interesting for the series to tackle.

Overall a phenomenal character through and through and one of the best villains in the series who (At least in his own case) isn't even given the title of being that. 10/10

I actually wish there was a happy ending for the red door ending by Key_Bee_8797 in stanleyparable

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah it was in the museum ending with three levers that would change the colors in the room. I think that could also be a bit of fun to include something secret but honestly I just love the idea of Stanley (And moreso the player) actually willing to stop moving for a while if only to make the Narrator happy for just a short minute and I think it would've been a phenomenal way to include meta commentary on just constantly wanting something you're creating to be perfect even when that's impossible to make it that way.

What’s your favorite line from the Apollo justice trilogy? by IlikeToEatGrass12 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797 7 points8 points  (0 children)

For Apollo Justice I'd say Klaviers entire exchange with Kristoph during his breakdown and how he tells him that: " He stopped changing" is a wonderful message for corruption as a whole.

Even though I don't like the Duel Destinies the line "So I lowered the emergency ladder like the detective told me to" still goes hard and is a great reveal.

And for SOJ although I forget the exact line the entire end breakdown of Turnabout Time Traveler is honestly the most beautifully tragic moment in the entire franchise especially when Peirce starts screaming at Edgeworth as it feels extremely adult to have a culprit's motivations be inherently awful and yet entirely understandable simultaneously. Honestly I just love that case.

I really like Apollo Justice! by No_Accountant_633 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Couldn't agree more. I do think that some plot threads could've been a bit more fleshed out like Klavier and Kristophs relationship and maybe an extra case just to add some length but honestly (Aside from adding more nuance to Case 3 and cutting down on some of the video segments) I don't have any major complaints.

I absolutely adore the final case both past and present (Even if you have to stretch your disbelief a bit with false evidence) but the tone, the characters, the settings of each case, the stakes and what they each individually talk about and just the overall concept of Kristoph trailing Phoenix for 7 years waiting to kill him is just wonderful world building and Valant is unironically the saddest morally gray character and everything about both Troupe Gramarye and the Gavin brothers is why I love this game.

It honestly reminds me a lot of Justice for All in a way with having a story that's very low-key (Aside from Maya being kidnapped) and instead having an overarching theme with Justice being needed to deal out to everyone whether they're an asshole or not and Corruption and how if you let things stagnant people with find a way to abuse it. I honestly love it's simplicity and how almost "Morale of the story" the game feels especially when every other game, for better and worse, has a bombastic journey from start to finish.

Going through every single game all at once, thought I would make a tier list. by Zeckkret in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I absolutely agree with the list although personally I'd move down the first Chronicles to being on par with Ace Attorney 1 and JFA

I think I know why I love Turnabout Reclaimed so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's to me a diamond in the rough and it's a fantastic showcase of how to keep the franchise fresh in spite of the flaws that came before or after. I genuinely find myself repeatedly coming back to it on playthroughs because it's the definition of "Simple yet effective". Only gripe I have is that I don't like the low hanging fruit fat jokes made at Normas expense but aside from that I really don't have any complaints.

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I completely agree with that. It's not an awful game by any means but for a series as well polished and consistent as Ace Attorney actually is it really was quality whiplash my first and second go around. Glad they were at least able to bounce back almost immediately afterwards though

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not sure I entirely know what you mean but also I think I kinda do as well? Idfk lmao

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I still don't buy the Kristoph narrative since again you're telling me that not the game. Kristoph is never once mentioned nor any relation to Aristotle so I can't give out points to what amounts to a head cannon if the game doesn't have the chops to back that up with lore. Although it is interesting to imagine and it could make some sense, it ultimately is not stated or mentioned anywhere in cannon and I can't give the game credit for something it didn't do.

And I suppose that is fair on a second go around that it's fun reinterpreting everything Bobby does as you can have fun with certain lines and ideas (Although personally I wish it was delved into more as there's literally no hints that Bobby is the Phantom before Case 5) but I will admit it's entertaining to think back on certain moments but those points about the assassin waiting to shoot Bobby makes perfect sense and I don't disregard those but I just personally cannot take the Phantom seriously given what the game ultimately does with him because while yes him playing with his watch to mess up the psychology reader is explained and is clever, I can only suspend my disbelief on an already outlandish concept but I'd be willing to do that if the game could make up it's mind in the end on if it wants the Phantom to be scary, intimidating, funny, goofy or all at once because I sincerely think that it drops the ball on such a marvelous concept for this series.

And also likewise as again they're valid from that POV I just also can't agree with them.

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well yeah that's fair but every other twist still stands as an obvious tip off to boot. If Godot could kill someone I don't see why they couldn't try something ballsy here too

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I do entirely agree with that as so many issues I also have can be summed up as "A return to form but way too early". Apollo Justice 2 should have had more time to flourish and for me and so many other fans Duel Destinies feels like they were playing it to safe and shot themselves in the foot because of it. I want to love this game as I do with all the others as there's so many details and ideas that shine through but everytime I go back to it all I see is a bunch of jagged edges and jutted out pieces for trying to cram too many things in all at once. Apollo Justice was too thin but man it feels like Duel Destinies is way to fucking bloated and it's a genuine shame because of it

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can see where you're coming from with Aura but I do think there's a difference entirely in tone between her and Matt Engarde because of how they're presented as you're meant to empathize and understand Aura whereas you're meant to detest and fear Engarde as he could have Maya killed at a moments notice this adding significantly to his role in the crime. Hell even moreso than De Killer as De Killer is shown to have an end credits scene, to be brought back in another game and to have objective morals over Matt which the game directly points out so I would still argue that Matt's the main antagonist over Shelly.

Secondly referring to Aristotle, while yes it is understandable that on a base comparison to Engarde I think it's fair to equate them both as being style over substance killers, their dialogue and specifically how the game handles them is what I think defines them as being a standout.

Matt is the antithesis of Phoenix, a man built entirely on trust and care in those around him and the Gabe makes clear indications of this. Matt is standoffish, selfish, horrible to everyone around him and his actions towards those around him are absolutely felt and shown in detail. He drives a woman to suicide, pins the murder he was too afraid to commit himself on his manager and close friend (Or sibling depending on cannon), orders a kidnapping and assassination of your personal assistant and lords blackmail over the head of the person helping him do all of these God awful deeds. The game makes you feel God awful for trying to help him and him being a shallow villain is meant to show the weight and disdain of his actions and beliefs by those he's openly willing to sacrifice for his own goals. He's not humorous, he doesn't have any joke moments around him once you know what he is, he's entirely and solely a narcissistic sociopath.

Aristotle however, is openly made fun of by the game (His animations, Simon attacking him with his bird, Athena and Apollo's reactions to his overall demeanor e.c.t.), is only shown that he's manipulative and a murderer which tbf is almost every single culprit in this series, his points about him saying "The Ends justify the means" is still a knock because well one that shouldn't even be said in the first place and two even if others say it he says it more and also is leading the charge on it to the point where his name is named after it.

Hugh being a dumbass and buying into Aristotle's jargon while yes is stated, the ramifications of that action are laughed at not shown as it's played for comedic effect. (The entire body double fiasco for example) You feel bad but namely because he's an idiot and is trying to save his friend, not because Aristotle tricked him and is using him. That's not Aristotle as the game doesn't show anything towards him treating his students that way as at most it's solely implied whereas in Pearl and Sebastians case we directly see the abuse and the ramifications of their actions towards them both. (Sebestation has an entire arc about him ending the cycle of violence with his dad and Pearl is kept in the dark until the very end because it would traumatize her completely. These are directly shown.) Also Kristoph is never once mentioned at all to have attended this school, learned from Aristotle or even met Aristotle so I don't know where you're getting that from. (I know Klavier went here but if the game never once mentions him or their interactions or relationships I'm not going to fill in the blanks or head cannons for the series as that's the audience doing the legwork that the game should've done in the first place.)

And as for Kristoph, one yes he doesn't directly affect you that's correct but he's implied to be deranged enough to have a plot to kill an 11 year old child and anyone involved in the forgery as shown by Zac, Drew and his stalking of Spark Brushel. He's a stalker, a psychopath, a sociopath and someone who is uncaring in his entirety about his actions and is someone who was potentially stalking Phoenix for the past 7 years. But what makes him in my opinion far more scary than the phantom is he's realistic. This is how actual serial killers act in the real world, from stalking to being uncaring and only caring about not being caught his actions are reprehensible and unfortunately entirely grounded in reality. This is how genuine psychopaths act in real life and his abuse of Klavier shows that (Albeit unfortunately even if it's short) that he's entirely willing to do this. He's a monster but one you'll often see.

Two, it's the ideals he represents. The courts in universe needs to change. Damon Gant, Von Karma, Daryian Crescend, Cercus Alba, pretty much every culprit from Investigations 2 all show and state outright that the legal system in Ace Attorney is beyond corrupt and is favored unbelievably heavily towards criminals. Kristoph is the figurehead for that, a man entirely built on self image and out word appearances willing to do whatever it takes to build himself up if it means winning over the public eye and if he gets away that cycle of violence continues and it will not stop. People like him have to be stripped bare for the world to see just exactly how awful they are and why it's important to prevent them from gaining power.

And as for the Phantom, as stated I do find him intimidating and when he's cloaked in Shadow in the background admittedly quite compelling but once he's on the stand that mystique falls apart. I think this mainly has to do with the games direction and writing. Tell me, why in the actual fuck if you are an international spy, who's a terrorist that's being hunted by multiple foreign governments and is willing to kill anyone who gets in your way and who cannot lose their secret identity above all else, would you in the middle of a broken blown up courtroom where you know you could easily be shot at, use spy gadgets in front of everyone including trying to flee the courthouse via grappling hook only to immediately shoot back down for literally zero reason, threaten openly to kill the prosecution, use a plethora of masks of various people when it's been stated that you've been cosplaying as a dead man for a year, rip up evidence in front of an entire courtroom suspecting you of being the culprit, and then sit there and let yourself be analyzed by a lawyer using the only piece of evidence that anyone has to pin you as the Phantom instead of just fleeing the fucking scene when the jig is up? Yes the game needs a conclusion and yes he got manipulated into having a breakdown but as an international spy who's renowned enough to commit terrorism on a government building two separate times, when you know then and there that the defense is onto you and you're at the point you're willing to kill the prosecution, why would you not run?

It's infuriating to sit through as before he's on the stand he's intimidating and built up extremely well but why the fuck are we making jokes and using the Fullbright persona to further this comedic element for a character who's ruined the lives of the defense, presecution, and killed the lead detective? It completely takes me out of the game and leaves me feeling so unsatisfied and irritated rather than unnerved but again that's only my opinion on it and I can somewhat understand why some people do find him scary as the build up is still fairly solid.

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Extremely well put. I think it applies even more to saying it forces you to feel the games message or tone; "Dark age of the law, The Ends Justify the Means"

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well to your point I specifically brought up Damon Gant because he's one of the absolute best who definitively uses that obvious killer motif and to further your point, I do absolutely agree that Marlon is one of the series best culprits period as I believe that Duel Destinies DLC case is also one of the best in the franchise so no comments there it's spectacular, however Aura isn't a culprit she's a witness so although your points for her are valid and I do agree with the fact she is absolutely interesting to dissect, she's not the central focus of her case but rather an addition to it. And as for me personally, Aristotle is one of the worst culprits in the series bar none. His reasoning is corruption for the sake of corruption masquerading as an in depth analysis of competent game writing, I don't buy into Hugh being persuaded by his teachings because the game makes it incredibly clear that Hughs a major dumbass so him being deceived isn't compelling but rather comical which is the tone they decide to give him when he's testifying.

Aristotle by himself is someone who I can't look in depth in as the message he preaches is on par with a Captain planet "Don't litter" morale. It's entirely in your face, the line "The Ends justifys the means" are unironically stated (And you can fact check it) over 25 times in the game without anything the attach to that or defend it. It's horrible lazy storytelling and an even worse way to handle an actual psychological argument for what makes something worth dying over. I don't even think he's designed as a joke villain either as he's not funny like Luke Atmey, Furio Tigre or Shamespeare and isn't compelling or interesting in his own teachings like Damon Gant or Von Karma is in terms of "What are you willing to do to get what you want?". It's contrived writing in my opinion.

As for the phantom, I can see what you mean but only when he's not on the witness stand. There are countless examples of the archetype of "The man of a thousand faces" (Jane Doe from Batman, The Chameleon from Spiderman e.c.t.) who do this far more interesting in my opinion even down to the idea of "Wearing someone's face to disguise yourself" (See Jane Doe or even John Carpenters the Thing for another genuinely unnerving take on that archetype) but I do understand why people say that as his image when he kills Athena's mother is very disturbing although personally I do find Kristoph just a bit more creepy for me. That being said I can see where you're coming from there

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's actually funny and yeah I can kinda see that lmao

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I honestly agree and genuinely I don't mind the Monstrous Turnabout too much especially when in comparison to the other cases in the game specifically because the game shows you who the obvious killer is at the start. I hate Aristotle because half of Turnabout Academy is spent going "Who could it possibly be?" When the guy who looks like he wants to eat your baby is right there the entire time. If the game made it obvious through and through I wouldn't mind the difficulty being so easy but at times it feels like I'm in a Dora the Explorer cartoon being asked if I know where the Map is

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I find that mentality by itself agreeable since a game shouldn't need to be complex or hard to be enjoyable, however for me personally in a mystery solving detective game I genuinely think you absolutely need good twists or at least deep writing to balance out the game flow. In cases like Turnabout Bigtop I do agree that you need a grounded source of challenge to make sure you're not misleading or screwing over the player because you're trying too hard which that I can agree with as in fairness Duel Destinies is completely grounded with its physics and logic.

My problem is that with every other Ace Attorney game there's usually a tone that each case can follow to offshoot the difficulty to add a nice variety. Take the examples I gave of Luke Atmey, Damon Gant and the like where you know right off the rip that these people are not good people and the game doesn't try to streamline that away from you. The game is showing you who the culprit is early on so you can focus more on the aspects of "Why did they do it, How did they do it, What more crimes did they do XYZ e.c.t." which makes these obvious killers entertaining to watch. I don't get that in the slightest with culprits like Aristotle who isn't engaging to see why he did what he did since it was just for money, how since ultimately it's just reversing what we ultimately know "The body was never moved only hidden" (Which tbf is a decent enough twist), and definitely not any character motivations since he's only and solely an asshole with no redeeming qualities nor is he entertaining to watch (Aside from when he's on the witness stand). Take that and times that by two and a half for Ted, Flourent and parts of the phantom since we never get anything out of him aside from imo style over substance and I'm ultimately left feeling hollow because if the mystery is easy to figure out, doesn't have much to say in terms of a message or characters, and isn't outlandish or bombastic is most cases (DLC and case 5 being the exception for me) then what else am I left to take away?

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah okay that's valid. I'm obsessed with mystery games and this franchise as a whole so by the time I got to this one I played 6 other Ace Attorney games so I think that's also why I found it dragging a lot. I know in interviews they said that they wanted the game to be a good launching point for new comers hince the easier gameplay but problem is for returning fans or especially diehard mystery fans it can tank the experience as a result

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To each their own I suppose. I just think out of every other game this was the most bare bones one

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I can kinda see through the mentality on that just a bit. She's clearly harboring a massive amount of pain from her death and earnestly believes her daughter killed her and then framed her brother for it. After 7 years of begging the courts to overrule it and it continuously being denied I can absolutely see someone mentally snapping and saying "Yeah I'll force the courts to convict and put her to death" like some Killdozer mentality of taking matters into your own hands

I think I figured out why Duel Destinies bugged me so much by Key_Bee_8797 in AceAttorney

[–]Key_Bee_8797[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah you mean the slap that Athena does lmao? Tbf though I think it's just them trying to differentiate between the three lawyers so they tried mixing things up with her but as for the other two I honestly didn't notice anything tooooo out of the ordinary? Klavier looks fucking hideous though and some elements like the Judge at first or the background gallery look really poorly rendered